A question for OSASers

[Masters_Servant]

John 3 has EVERYTHING to do with Baptism. If the reader had ANY doubt what Jesus meant, he simply needs to read on just a few verses. ***22 After this, Jesus and his disciples went into the region of Judea, where he spent some time with them baptizing. ***
Context, Context, Context

Does John 3:5 mention “Baptizmo”? No, why? It is not baptism. Just because it mentions water doesn’t mean baptism; that way of interpreting Scripture will lead to all kinds of errors. Water is mentioned in the NT about 63 times and over 400 times in the entire Bible.

John 3 is a more difficult passage to understand and one must really understand the culture, the mind of the Pharisee, the knowledge of salvation and the OT ceremonies of purification. There is a real big picture that must be all pulled together, which is why this particular passage is so difficult for most to understand in its context, but it is a glorious passage and the “water” deals with the issue of sin and the purifying work of God and the receiving of the spirit is the New Birth in Jesus. Once it is all pulled together, the passage becomes simplistic; as Jesus was the Master of using few words to speak volumes and this is one example.

When you move into John 5:22 onward; the entire scene changes. If you look closely at verse 25; their is a discussion about purification and John gives a hint about it in relation repentance and the gift from heaven with the sovereignty of God in view. What was John’s baptism; a preparation of the heart of repentance in order to prepare oneself to receive what?

 

[NotWorthy]

He was lost (spiritually dead); why do you think he wanted his inheritance before his father was dead, because he was full of pride and arrogance. Not until he hit rock-bottom did he come before his father in ALL humility; it was that that point where he confessed his sin with a sincere heart and was what? found or saved.

Dear Masters Servant. You must know that Jesus chose His words carefully.

Take note of the words Jesus used to describe the son, "But now we must celebrate and rejoice, because your brother was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’. And again, I remind you that the Prodigal Son is but one of three parables all in a row. There is a common theme. Someone has a treasure, they lose the treasure, the treasure is found.

OSAS? I think not.

You cannot debunk OSAS; it is all over the NT; you can only debate who is really a Christian and who is not, which is subjective and is why this debate continues. It is why some say you can’t loose what you never had, which with salvation this is true. So it comes back to who is really saved and who is not; for the person that perceives he is saved, then perceives he is then lost; that becomes his reality - for ones perception is one’s reality. One can loose something they perceive that they have and many do and likewise they can perceive to regain that which they perceived to have lost, but perception never changes God’s reality and gift of salvation nor can anyone take back what God has purposed to give unless one perceives themselves as greater than God or misunderstand the true nature of God and the gift of salvation as taught in Scripture.

MS, I’m not debating anybody’s salvation. I’m using the words that Our Lord and Savior used. Then we see Paul’s warnings that I referenced earlier. Be careful lest ye fall.

This is why no one can give an example of one that was saved, then not saved, then saved before they died. If the doctrine were true, then it would be very relevant throughout Scripture because it gets to the core of salvation, but it simply isn’t their. This is why I say the debate is really over “who is really a Christian and who is not”? Only the Christian will know that according to Scripture, we can know someone and see the fruits of righteousness in their lives and drawl the conclusion that this person is of God, but as I stated earlier, there are a lot of people playing church and doing/saying all the right things and have never dealt with their sin issue and come before God as a beggar to receive that gift. Dealing with sin, the Prodigal son is a great spiritual lesson on this; dealing with ones sin in all humility before the father; something most professing Christians have never truly dealt with, which is why we have passages such as Matthew 7:13-14.

I prefer to let Jesus judge others…

 

[NotWorthy]

Does John 3:5 mention “Baptizmo”? No, why? It is not baptism. Just because it mentions water doesn’t mean baptism; that way of interpreting Scripture will lead to all kinds of errors. Water is mentioned in the NT about 63 times and over 400 times in the entire Bible.

John 3 is a more difficult passage to understand and one must really understand the culture, the mind of the Pharisee, the knowledge of salvation and the OT ceremonies of purification. There is a real big picture that must be all pulled together, which is why this particular passage is so difficult for most to understand in its context, but it is a glorious passage and the “water” deals with the issue of sin and the purifying work of God and the receiving of the spirit is the New Birth in Jesus. Once it is all pulled together, the passage becomes simplistic; as Jesus was the Master of using few words to speak volumes and this is one example.

When you move into John 5:22 onward; the entire scene changes. If you look closely at verse 25; their is a discussion about purification and John gives a hint about it in relation repentance and the gift from heaven with the sovereignty of God in view. What was John’s baptism; a preparation of the heart of repentance in order to prepare oneself to receive what?

Start another thread on this (and invite me). John is ALL about Baptism. Nice try.

 

[Masters_Servant]

OK, I’m curious. If the son had not come back to the father, would he have been considered saved. Jesus makes it clear that the son was alive, then died, then was alive again.

That is your personal interpretation of the Scripture; but to properly interpret any passage, especially that which pertains to salvation, then you must put it into perspective of the salvation doctrinal context to extract the proper meaning of the message that God is telling us.

Also, the better view of this is the father speaking to the other son and states the following:
'Son, you have always been with me, and all that is mine is yours. 32 ‘But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and {has begun} to live, and {was} lost and has been found.’ "

In verse 24, the word “again” is what throws most people who hold to the view of saved, lost saved, it should be clear for two reasons, one the very next part of the sentence “he was lost and has been found”. Not lost and found again and verse 32 restates the proper context, which also agrees with the salvation doctrine as taught in Scripture.

The word “again” must be unlocked to get the contextual meaning, which one needs to understand the Jewish culture and how inheritances were distributed, but this is too detailed to get into at this time; it should suffice to focus on the second half of verse 24 and verse 32.

 

[Masters_Servant]

Well, my friend - you don’t seem to understand context.

For example - then the Bible speaks of "faith" - it does not refer to a mere intellectual ascent to belief or acknowledgement of who God is. Remember - even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19).

In the Scriptures - Salvation is CLEARLY a process. The passages I provided state this in no uncertain terms (1 John 2:24, Rom. 11:22, 2 Peter 2:20-22, Matt. 7:21, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 10:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor.s 9:27, Heb. 3:6, 2 Peter 3:17, 1 John 2:24). you mistake spiritual rebirth for final sanctification. Other Protestants mistake Redemption for Salvation.
Guess what? The entire world - ALL of mankind was redeemed on Calvary - not just Christians. All redemption means is “paid for”. Whereas we were ALL paid for - only some will be saved.

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We, as Christians know that the Scriptures do not and cannot contradict themselves - we are left with the reality that they must be in concert with one another - they compliment each other. When people like you snatch a verse here and there and attempt to make it say what it clearly does NOT in context - then errors are born.

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This is why the tragedy of Protestantism in all its constantly splintering factions exists.

As I said before it is both; the Bible teaches both; why do you embrace one aspect and reject the other?

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined {to become} conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

What in the world do you think this "predestination is to? Hell or something?

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, ***who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, ***to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

Dang, there is a whole group of people God chose for salvation before they even existed; unless Peter is not telling the truth.

Elvis, I would not want to ask you with a seeking heart the basic question; “what must I do to receive eternal life?” I’m certain the answer would be memorable for sure. Nothing personal, we all are at different places in our walks; but you do not appear to understand or even acknowledge a rather simple paradox taught in Scripture. Kind of hard to discuss anything with depth if we can’t get past the basics.

 

[Masters_Servant]

Dear Masters Servant. You must know that Jesus chose His words carefully.

Take note of the words Jesus used to describe the son, "But now we must celebrate and rejoice, because your brother was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’. And again, I remind you that the Prodigal Son is but one of three parables all in a row. There is a common theme. Someone has a treasure, they lose the treasure, the treasure is found.

OSAS? I think not.

MS, I’m not debating anybody’s salvation. I’m using the words that Our Lord and Savior used. Then we see Paul’s warnings that I referenced earlier. Be careful lest ye fall.

I prefer to let Jesus judge others…

One can look at anyone’s words, including those of Jesus and still not understand the context of those words. It is my opinion, that anyone who believes they can lose what God has see freely given and at such a huge price, that He says the Christian was bought with a price, they does not fully understand the nature of the gift or the power of God to see the recipient all the way through till the end. This is a real shame because it denies God the glory that is do His name in regards to salvation.

 

[Masters_Servant]

Start another thread on this (and invite me). John is ALL about Baptism. Nice try.

You can start a thread on that, but I do not think I would have much to add; as I said it is one of the most difficult passages in Scripture and without the ability to pull all aspects of the NT & OT into this passage to see the simplicity, then no amount of talking on the subject will be of any profit for either party.

If you were asked how many baptisms does the NT speak of; most people would say one, maybe two; they would be wrong. An example is Peter where he speaks of baptism and the ark and the flood, most look at that and see water baptism saves; yet Peter specifically says it is not the kind that washes dirt of the body (paraphrasing); meaning he is not speaking of water baptism, but there it is water and the word baptism, so it must mean water baptism saves you…it is all wrong. Everyone is at a different place in their walk and each will die at a different place in that walk as well. The important part is the path to which one is walking.

 

[Roblox84]

One can look at anyone’s words, including those of Jesus and still not understand the context of those words. It is my opinion, that anyone who believes they can lose what God has see freely given and at such a huge price, that He says the Christian was bought with a price, they does not fully understand the nature of the gift or the power of God to see the recipient all the way through till the end. This is a real shame because it denies God the glory that is do His name in regards to salvation.

Then as I quoted on another thread we should take by the example of Paul. Unlike the last passage that you didn’t like, in this one Paul makes it quite clear that one can lose their salvation.

1 Corinthians 9:25
25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

 

[NotWorthy]

That is your personal interpretation of the Scripture; but to properly interpret any passage, especially that which pertains to salvation, then you must put it into perspective of the salvation doctrinal context to extract the proper meaning of the message that God is telling us.

Also, the better view of this is the father speaking to the other son and states the following:
'Son, you have always been with me, and all that is mine is yours. 32 ‘But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and {has begun} to live, and {was} lost and has been found.’ "

In verse 24, the word “again” is what throws most people who hold to the view of saved, lost saved, it should be clear for two reasons, one the very next part of the sentence “he was lost and has been found”. Not lost and found again and verse 32 restates the proper context, which also agrees with the salvation doctrine as taught in Scripture.

The word “again” must be unlocked to get the contextual meaning, which one needs to understand the Jewish culture and how inheritances were distributed, but this is too detailed to get into at this time; it should suffice to focus on the second half of verse 24 and verse 32.

My brother, you are doing exactly what you claim others are doing.

Look at the 3 parables as one, for Jesus rattles them off one after another to address a single issue with the Pharisees.

In each one the order is:
a) A treasure was there.
b) The treasure was lost.
c) The treasure was found.

Redemption, corruption, redemption again.

Context, context, context

 

[NotWorthy]

One can look at anyone’s words, including those of Jesus and still not understand the context of those words. It is my opinion, that anyone who believes they can lose what God has see freely given and at such a huge price, that He says the Christian was bought with a price, they does not fully understand the nature of the gift or the power of God to see the recipient all the way through till the end. This is a real shame because it denies God the glory that is do His name in regards to salvation.

I do understand and agree that one denies the gift without fully understanding the gift. But yet one does deny the gift.

 

[elvisman]

As I said before it is both; the Bible teaches both; why do you embrace one aspect and reject the other?

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined {to become} conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

What in the world do you think this "predestination is to? Hell or something?

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, ***who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, ***to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

Dang, there is a whole group of people God chose for salvation before they even existed; unless Peter is not telling the truth.

Elvis, I would not want to ask you with a seeking heart the basic question; “what must I do to receive eternal life?” I’m certain the answer would be memorable for sure. Nothing personal, we all are at different places in our walks; but you do not appear to understand or even acknowledge a rather simple paradox taught in Scripture. Kind of hard to discuss anything with depth if we can’t get past the basics.

There is NO paradox here – there is only your misunderstanding of Scripture. Spiritual rebirth does NOT equal salvation. Spiritual rebirth requires an enduring faith to achieve salvation. God’s grace gives us the means to endure but does not force us to – and that is where you err.

---

As for predestination - God is outside of time (2 Pet. 3:16) and, therefore, knows ALL before it happens to us. THIS is the predestination that the Bible speaks of. God does not send people kicking and screaming into heaven against their will because he “predestined” them for it. THAT would make him a spiritual rapist.

---

Neither** does he send people kicking and screaming into hell without ever having had the chance to repent and come to him. THAT would make a monster.**
He gave us free-will to accept his grace or to reject it.

---

John 3:16** tells us: “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life. **
**This speaks to EVERYBODY – not just a select few. Your fatally flawed version of predestination renders the Great Commission (Matt. 28:18-20) pointless. **

---

Why make disciples of all nations if only some were predestined to be saved? This is ludicrous and completely against the CONTEXT of Scripture. I know that "context” is a word that many Protestants hate because of its ramifications - but you must read the Bible in CONTEXT.

 

[Masters_Servant]

Then as I quoted on another thread we should take by the example of Paul. Unlike the last passage that you didn’t like, in this one Paul makes it quite clear that one can lose their salvation.

1 Corinthians 9:25
25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

He is speaking of rewards in heaven, not a loss of salvation. Completely off the context of salvation.

They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified. - who is the “we”, the Christian and are their rewards in heaven? Yes What is Pauls goal and encouragement? To gain the heavenly rewards beyond the gift of salvation. This is an encouragement to live out the Christian life to its fullest.

Philippians 3 speaks of the same and is also misunderstood in the context of salvation rather than what it is, which is the encouragement to become more and more like Christ and storing up treasure in heaven the imperishable rewards.

I find this most interesting (Colossians 2)because you can be saved and build up that treasure and then forfeit the rewards, not the salvation. Paul gives some examples, which should be familiar to all.
“18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on {visions} he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind” - this is a warning about allowing others to influence one that results in forfeiture of their rewards.

Listen to Paul as he addresses Timothy; note at the end, the head knowledge ones are the ones that go astray, not the heart knowledge, the Christian is bought with a price.

Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. 18 Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, 19 storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.

20 O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called “knowledge”-- 21 which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith.
Grace be with you.

19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? - 1 Corinthians 6

Whos’ are you if you are not your own? Answer: Who paid the price? It is that simple, once one becomes a Christian, they are always a Christian and the real issue is “who is a Christian”, which is why so many deny/accept that one cannot lose their salvation. You cannot lose that which God has not given, but one can lose what the perceive they have, but once someone is a child of the Holy One, that child is sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of Jesus or the day of full redemption. Who can escape the hand of God? No one.

 

[Masters_Servant]

My brother, you are doing exactly what you claim others are doing.

Look at the 3 parables as one, for Jesus rattles them off one after another to address a single issue with the Pharisees.

In each one the order is:
a) A treasure was there.
b) The treasure was lost.
c) The treasure was found.

Redemption, corruption, redemption again.

Context, context, context

How you equate something “being there to equate to redemption” is beyond my understanding. The human equivalent to that thinking would be 1) I exist, therefore I am redeemed, 2) I was then lost, then 3) I was redeemed. Please.

What is that single issue: Once was lost and now I am found. or I was once lost and now I am saved. Not I’m saved, I’m lost, I’m saved - foreign to Scripture. I can’t speak on this much more, for you all believe you can loose your salvation; if that were true, then no one would have salvation because we would all lose it by our own selves. No I denied myself and put my trust FULLY in Christ; i was bought with a price and I am no longer mine, but His. I am a child of God and I cannot disown my Father nor can He disown me. I honor my Father and give His name the glory do because of the salvation He has freely given to me.

I would listen to Jesus; In Mark 4 verse 13 Jesus asks a simple rhetoric question in relation to “The Parable of the Soils” and it is profound and needs to be understood; this is what Jesus said: "13 And He said to them, **"Do you not understand this parable? ****How will you understand all the parables? ** The answer is you won’t.

If you want to look at context in Luke 15 after He speaks of the lost sheep and the lost coin and the lost son…"10 "In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents." - There is your context, which agrees with all of Scripture; your context contradicts all of Scripture.

In all of these, who is the one who finds and welcomes and displays mercy; it is GOD or a representation of God, such as the woman who lost a coin.

Jesus said unless you understand the Parable of the Soils, you will not understand the rest of the parables; I believe Him. Perhaps one could look at it this way; what in you could possibly good enough to first receive salvation and second what is so weak about God, that He would lose one of His own that He bought with His Son?

 

[Masters_Servant]

I do understand and agree that one denies the gift without fully understanding the gift. But yet one does deny the gift.

Yes, the very reason people go to hell; they deny/reject the message of salvation in Christ Jesus.

 

[Masters_Servant]

There is NO paradox here – there is only your misunderstanding of Scripture. Spiritual rebirth does NOT equal salvation. Spiritual rebirth requires an enduring faith to achieve salvation. God’s grace gives us the means to endure but does not force us to – and that is where you err.

---

As for predestination - God is outside of time (2 Pet. 3:16) and, therefore, knows ALL before it happens to us. THIS is the predestination that the Bible speaks of. God does not send people kicking and screaming into heaven against their will because he “predestined” them for it. THAT would make him a spiritual rapist.

---

Neither** does he send people kicking and screaming into hell without ever having had the chance to repent and come to him. THAT would make a monster.**
He gave us free-will to accept his grace or to reject it.

---

John 3:16** tells us: “For God so loved the world** that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.
This speaks to EVERYBODY – not just a select few. Your fatally flawed version of predestination renders the Great Commission (Matt. 28:18-20) pointless.

---

Why make disciples of all nations if only some were predestined to be saved? This is ludicrous and completely against the CONTEXT of Scripture. I know that "context” is a word that many Protestants hate because of its ramifications - but you must read the Bible in CONTEXT.

I rest my case “there is no paradox here”. I proved it to you and demonstrated it to you from God’s own words, yet you refuse to acknowledge the very Word of God. To do it; you used another paradox, which is beyond our human comprehension in its fullest sense.

How many people would chose God if left to themselves? Get the point!

Your thought on predestination simply deny the sovereignty of God in salvation and thus deny the glory do His name in regards to salvation. So you are without excuse in the Bible understanding of predestination; I provided a simple link to help you and anyone else that has the same misconceptions. Click here.

The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determine beforehand,” “ordain,” “to decide upon ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Essentially, God predetermines that certain individuals will be saved. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved.

Therefore in you understanding in in your own words, God is “a monster”, “a spiritual rapist” & the great commission is to be ignored. A little homework goes a long way, but maybe you are spiritual appraised; that is between you and God, but I would be concerned if I could not understand the basics and I would do some soul searching to see exactly where I am at with God. That is what I would do; you do as you please. I have nothing further to add to this discussion with you; perhaps some other thread on something a little lighter.

 

[elvisman]

I rest my case “there is no paradox here”. I proved it to you and demonstrated it to you from God’s own words, yet you refuse to acknowledge the very Word of God. To do it; you used another paradox, which is beyond our human comprehension in its fullest sense.

How many people would chose God if left to themselves? Get the point!

You still don’t get it.**
I said - God’s grace gives us the means to endure but does not force us to – and that is where you err.

**And I didn’t issue another paradox to prove my point - just telling it like it is, friend: Your position makes NO sense when the Scriptures are taken in context.

Tell me something:
If nobody in the Historic Christian Church believed in OSAS for 1500 years - were they wrong?
Do you deny free will?

 

[Masters_Servant]

You still** don’t get it.
I said - God’s grace gives us the means to endure but does not force us to – and that is where you err.

**And I *didn’t ***issue another paradox to prove my point - just telling it like it is, friend: Your position makes NO sense when the Scriptures are taken in context.

Tell me something:
**If nobody **in the Historic Christian Church believed in OSAS for 1500 years - were they wrong?
Do you deny free will?

Elvis, you are on your own; you have been shown the truth, there is nothing more one can do. All of the writers were OSAS’ers, including Jesus since He is the Author and holder of our salvation and furthermore God said no one would come to Him if left on their own.

No one has yet demonstrated a single example where someone had salvation, lost that salvation, then regained that salvation; on such an important issue, salvation, there should be numerous examples, just as there are numerous examples of the sovergn power of God concerning the “elect”.

Free will is a paradox; we are damned for rejecting the gospel; yet we can’t accept it unless He reveals Himself. By sin nature, we have the free-will to sin and we exercise it daily. How God puts this altogether is beyond mine or anyone’s understanding, but I walk by faith and do not lean on my own understanding.

 

[Roblox84]

He is speaking of rewards in heaven, not a loss of salvation. Completely off the context of salvation.

They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified. - who is the “we”, the Christian and are their rewards in heaven? Yes What is Pauls goal and encouragement? To gain the heavenly rewards beyond the gift of salvation. This is an encouragement to live out the Christian life to its fullest.

Philippians 3 speaks of the same and is also misunderstood in the context of salvation rather than what it is, which is the encouragement to become more and more like Christ and storing up treasure in heaven the imperishable rewards.

I find this most interesting (Colossians 2)because you can be saved and build up that treasure and then forfeit the rewards, not the salvation. Paul gives some examples, which should be familiar to all.
“18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on {visions} he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind” - this is a warning about allowing others to influence one that results in forfeiture of their rewards.

Listen to Paul as he addresses Timothy; note at the end, the head knowledge ones are the ones that go astray, not the heart knowledge, the Christian is bought with a price.

Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. 18 Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, 19 storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed.

20 O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called “knowledge”-- 21 which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith.
Grace be with you.

19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? - 1 Corinthians 6

Whos’ are you if you are not your own? Answer: Who paid the price? It is that simple, once one becomes a Christian, they are always a Christian and the real issue is “who is a Christian”, which is why so many deny/accept that one cannot lose their salvation. You cannot lose that which God has not given, but one can lose what the perceive they have, but once someone is a child of the Holy One, that child is sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of Jesus or the day of full redemption. Who can escape the hand of God? No one.

The whole passage is about working out his salvation. He is not teaching anything close to the theory of OSAS.

Also, to answer ELVISMAN. The newer religions believe that people got it wrong for 1500 years and that they came later to save everyone and teach that OSAS is what the bible really teaches.

If you ask me, if one doesn’t really know the bible, the idea of OSAS is a very appealing one. If I didn’t know better I would definitely love the fact that I will no matter what get into heaven because God forces us.

 

[NotWorthy]

There is NO paradox here – there is only your misunderstanding of Scripture. Spiritual rebirth does NOT equal salvation. Spiritual rebirth requires an enduring faith to achieve salvation. God’s grace gives us the means to endure but does not force us to – and that is where you err.

In support of your statement, **Spiritual rebirth does NOT equal salvation, one simply needs to read Ephesians. How does Paul say it in chapter 1:13-14? **
In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised holy Spirit, which is the first installment of our inheritance toward redemption as God’s possession, to the praise of his glory.

 

[NotWorthy]

Elvis, you are on your own; you have been shown the truth, there is nothing more one can do. All of the writers were OSAS’ers, including Jesus since He is the Author and holder of our salvation and furthermore God said no one would come to Him if left on their own.

No one has yet demonstrated a single example where someone had salvation, lost that salvation, then regained that salvation; on such an important issue, salvation, there should be numerous examples, just as there are numerous examples of the sovergn power of God concerning the “elect”.

Free will is a paradox; we are damned for rejecting the gospel; yet we can’t accept it unless He reveals Himself. By sin nature, we have the free-will to sin and we exercise it daily. How God puts this altogether is beyond mine or anyone’s understanding, but I walk by faith and do not lean on my own understanding.

I’m sorry, but Elvis is not on his own. He has 1 billion Catholics and 2000 years of tradition that back up his words.

You’ve been shown that the Prodigal Son, one who had his inheritance (i.e. he was saved), lost his inheritance, and then regained his life is an example that debunks OSAS.

You’ve ignored the other two parables. I’ll post them just to make sure we are on the same page.

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4 "What man among you having a hundred sheep** *(notice the “future lost sheep” is counted among the herd) and losing one of them would not leave the ninety-nine in the desert and go after the lost one until he finds it? 5 And when he does find it, he sets it on his shoulders with great joy 6 and, upon his arrival home, he calls together his friends and neighbors and says to them, ‘Rejoice with me because I have found my lost sheep.’ 7 I tell you, in just the same way there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous people who have no need of repentance.

8*** "Or what woman having ten coins and losing one*** (notice the lady has her treasure, loses one of the coins and then regains it) would not light a lamp and sweep the house, searching carefully until she finds it? 9 And when she does find it, she calls together her friends and neighbors and says to them, ‘Rejoice with me because I have found the coin that I lost.’ 10 In just the same way, I tell you, there will be rejoicing among the angels of God over one sinner who repents."

This, again, refutes your argument that the son was never alive until he returned to the Father. These three parable all MUST be taken together in support of what Jesus is trying to teach, not ripped out, so that you can invent your own context.