A question for our LDS friends

[jadamo]

A new Temple will be opening to the public soon where I live and I do plan on taking a tour. Before I go though, I’m learning about the original Temple in Jerusalem and all the customs and traditions of the OT Jews. Jesus’ death atoned for all our sins, and now, as the High Priest and King, He mediates for us in heaven at the right hand of God. The Temple in Jerusalem therefore was no longer needed, so why does your church insist on having Temples?

 

[andrewstx]

A new temple in Mesa? I have family in Phoenix and Mesa temple has been around for decades.

Could they possibly remodeled the old temple?

BTW I am not currently a Mormon and when I was for a short time I never went. Never was recommended.

 

[LivingWaters7]

A new temple in Mesa? I have family in Phoenix and Mesa temple has been around for decades.

Could they possibly remodeled the old temple?

BTW I am not currently a Mormon and when I was for a short time I never went. Never was recommended.

There’s a new temple in Gilbert, I saw it when I went to my buddy’s wedding in the Mesa temple. I loved the Mesa one, it’s pretty cool and “temple-like” inside (some temples are meh as far as aesthetics go).

 

[andrewstx]

There’s a new temple in Gilbert, I saw it when I went to my buddy’s wedding in the Mesa temple. I loved the Mesa one, it’s pretty cool and “temple-like” inside (some temples are meh as far as aesthetics go).

You should see the temple in Lubbock Texas. It is 1/3 the size of Stake Center on the same parking lot!

 

[Marie5890]

When people understand the whole Mormon temple thing, they all become “meh”…

Nothing special going on…

 

[Janderich]

A new Temple will be opening to the public soon where I live and I do plan on taking a tour. Before I go though, I’m learning about the original Temple in Jerusalem and all the customs and traditions of the OT Jews. Jesus’ death atoned for all our sins, and now, as the High Priest and King, He mediates for us in heaven at the right hand of God. The Temple in Jerusalem therefore was no longer needed, so why does your church insist on having Temples?

Temples are about ordinances which prepare us to be with God. Certain ordinances can only be performed in Temples set apart for that purpose. Just because Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father it does not follow that ordinances are no more required. Indeed almost all Christian religions still recognize the need for baptism. We simply believe there are additional ordinances which must be completed before a person is saved.

 

[TexanKnight]

Temples are about ordinances which prepare us to be with God. Certain ordinances can only be performed in Temples set apart for that purpose. Just because Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father it does not follow that ordinances are no more required. Indeed almost all Christian religions still recognize the need for baptism. We simply believe there are additional ordinances which must be completed before a person is saved.

now for the rest of the story.

The lds temple ceremony was pirated by js from the Masons after he saw it as a Mason. The ceremony was, at one time, almost word for word as the Masonic ceremony from whence it was stolen.

It is used to do ordinances for the dead. Even when the families of the dead do not want it done.

It was used for BY’s blood oaths where Mormons vowed to kill each other and themselves in horrible manners.

It was where a Catholic priest was portrayed as an agent of Satan

It was where women were made to vow to obey their husbands

It was where secret phrases and handshakes were taught.

Beware

 

[WD615]

A new Temple will be opening to the public soon where I live and I do plan on taking a tour. Before I go though, I’m learning about the original Temple in Jerusalem and all the customs and traditions of the OT Jews. Jesus’ death atoned for all our sins, and now, as the High Priest and King, He mediates for us in heaven at the right hand of God. The Temple in Jerusalem therefore was no longer needed, so why does your church insist on having Temples?

It’s not just that the old temple is obsolete, but it’s also been replaced! The tabernacle in a Catholic church doesn’t just store mere images or remembrances of God, but God Himself in the Eucharist! Not to mention that Christ is offered up in an unbloody sacrifice every day in the Mass, which is infinitely superior to the sacrifices in the old temple.

Honestly, since the Sacrifice of Calvary is offered up in a Catholic Church and God Himself resides there in a way He does nowhere else, what’s the point of any other “temples”?

 

[LivingWaters7]

I think that it’s important to remember that, for all intents and purposes, Catholic churches, basilicas, cathedrals, etc are temples, in the tradition of the Old Testament tabernacle and temple(s). I always like to quote one of the “praises” of the book “The Church: Unlocking the Secrets to the Places Catholics Call Home” by Cardinal Donald Wuerl and Mike Aquilina:

“What the Temple was to the Israelites, our churches are for us Catholics. They are sanctuaries of God’s presence-the meeting place of Heaven and Earth”-Dr. Scott Hahn.

Another amazing book related to this issue (and others) is “The Crucified Rabbi: Judaism and the Origins of Catholic Christianity” by Dr. Taylor Marshall.

Anyway, my point is that Catholicism continues ideas and practices related to the Israelite tabernacle, temple, and other Jewish practices, many of which are not found in the LDS temples. These include things like ritual purification with water/ablution prior to service in the sacred space (as well as a priestly self-purification with water at appointed times), altars on which sacrifice is offered, a sacrificial priesthood, a perpetual sancutary lamp, offering of bread and wine (i.e. Bread of the Presence), singing of psalms, a gathering place for holy festivals/feast days, incense, etc. So, while it’s clear that the sacrifices offered in the Israelite temple are no longer necessary from the Christian perspective, it’s also clear that Catholicism has inherited much from the temple tradition (and that the Catholic priesthood is understood to be offering the sacrifice of the Mass), and continues directly in that vein.

Latter-day Saints build temples for a number of reasons. They perform various ordinances there, such as baptisms for the dead (as well as all other ordinances for deceased persons), sealings (eternal marriage), and the Endowment. Mormons believe that temples are special places where God’s presence is in a special way, and they make covenants there.

 

[jadamo]

LivingWaters7, I’m rereading the book by Taylor Marshall right now, and I absolutely love it! I highly recommend this book, along with his other two in this series. And the new temple opening is in Gilbert, which is next to Mesa.

Janderich, as I’m reading the book “Crucified Rabbi”, I really don’t understand why Smith thought Temples would be such a great idea. We don’t need to perform ordinances in a Temple to be saved, Christ came to set us free, once and for all, through his perfect sacrifice.

“But when Christ came as high pries of the good things that have come to be, passing through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands, that is, not belonging to this creation, he entered **once for all **in the sanctuary, not with the blood of goats and calves but with his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption” (Hebrews 9:11-12).

It seems to me, the LDS temples are re-enslaving the people who think they have to perform these ordinances (obey the law) to be saved. Christ IS the fulfillment of the law, so why put forth new laws on which our salvation depends? I think it’s kind of sad too that only the “worthy” members can participate in these ordinances. If you truly believe that the temple ordinances are so necessary, then why deny that to people who are struggling in their faith? Wouldn’t the ordinances and being in the presence of God help to strengthen their faith?

“He saved us and called us to a holy life, not according to our works but according to his own design and the grace bestowed on us in Christ Jesus before time began.” (II Tim. 1:9)

 

[RebeccaJ]

There is also the fact of gentile converts, before the destruction of the Jerusalem temple. They were not required to become Jewish in order to become Christian, and therefore would have never been allowed into the temple in Jerusalem. So, why would the Church decide circumcision was not required to be a Christian, while ( as Mormons claim ) requiring temple ordinance that just were not accessible for gentile converts?

It’s called, making it up as you go along. Don’t worry about facts.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

A new Temple will be opening to the public soon where I live and I do plan on taking a tour. Before I go though, I’m learning about the original Temple in Jerusalem and all the customs and traditions of the OT Jews. Jesus’ death atoned for all our sins, and now, as the High Priest and King, He mediates for us in heaven at the right hand of God. The Temple in Jerusalem therefore was no longer needed, so why does your church insist on having Temples?

Where else are you gonna get the passwords and handshakes in secret to become a god?!
Yes, that’s what Mormons believe. :hypno:

Jesus is not enough for the Mormons, who are therefore not Christians.

Everything you said about Jesus, High Priest, Mediation, are so not part of the Mormon Gospel. :tsktsk:

 

[Janderich]

Janderich, as I’m reading the book “Crucified Rabbi”, I really don’t understand why Smith thought Temples would be such a great idea. We don’t need to perform ordinances in a Temple to be saved, Christ came to set us free, once and for all, through his perfect sacrifice.

“But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come to be, passing through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands, that is, not belonging to this creation, he entered **once for all **in the sanctuary, not with the blood of goats and calves but with his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption” (Hebrews 9:11-12).

Temples are a places set apart from the world. Joseph was commanded to build a Temple. These other negative posts on this thread do not partake of the same Spirit found in the Temple. They are false. Here is a short video that I think presents the correct feeling: lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?autoplay=true&index=3&locale=0&sourceId=387b747631f92210VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=bd163ca6e9aa3210VgnVCM1000003a94610aRCRD

jadamo:

It seems to me, the LDS temples are re-enslaving the people who think they have to perform these ordinances (obey the law) to be saved. Christ IS the fulfillment of the law, so why put forth new laws on which our salvation depends?

Does communion enslave? Or does it set free? Christ himself put forth this new ordinance before his atonement. So clearly Christ himself was not against ordinances.

Now, to think that the performances of the law alone save is indeed a false notion. The performance of eating bread or drinking wine (water) by themselves will never save a person. Without the priesthood, without the covenant they are empty rituals. But ordinances coupled with priesthood and covenants will exalt a person.

jadamo:

I think it’s kind of sad too that only the “worthy” members can participate in these ordinances. If you truly believe that the temple ordinances are so necessary, then why deny that to people who are struggling in their faith? Wouldn’t the ordinances and being in the presence of God help to strengthen their faith?

“He saved us and called us to a holy life, not according to our works but according to his own design and the grace bestowed on us in Christ Jesus before time began.” (II Tim. 1:9)

To receive of ordinances unworthily is no blessing. Paul said this of communion (sacrament), “For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body” (1 Cor 11:29). You believe the same do you not?

Next, to be in the presence of God unworthily is also no blessing. In the BofM Moroni says, “Do ye suppose that ye could be happy to dwell with that holy Being, when your souls are racked with a consciousness of guilt that ye have ever abused his laws? Behold I say unto you that ye would be more miserable to dwell with a holy and just God, under a consciousness of your filthiness before him, than ye would to dwell with the damned souls in hell. For behold, when ye shall be brought to see your nakedness before God, and also the glory of God, and the holiness of Jesus Christ, it will kindle a flame of unquenchable fire upon you” (Mormon 9:3-5) You may not believe in this scripture but I invite you to consider the thought. Is this not the fire that the sinner feels in hell? I say it is.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Temples are a places set apart from the world. Joseph was commanded to build a Temple. These other negative posts on this thread do not partake of the same Spirit found in the Temple. They are false. Here is a short video that I think presents the correct feeling:

You haven’t answered the OP’s question. Which isn’t about emotions felt here or anywhere else.

“Jesus’ death atoned for all our sins, and now, as the High Priest and King, He mediates for us in heaven at the right hand of God. The Temple in Jerusalem therefore was no longer needed, so why does your church insist on having Temples?”

Does communion enslave? Or does it set free? Christ himself put forth this new ordinance before his atonement. So clearly Christ himself was not against ordinances.

Jesus was against man made hoops, set up for others to jump through in order to believe they are God’s people. Jesus instituted Baptism and Eucharist, you can clearly find this teaching in the NT and early Christian writings.Jesus did not institute Mormon temple endowment or sealings, both of these contradict what Jesus did teach.

The two questions are related. There is no need for Mormon temples, therefore, participating in the empty ritual (not instituted by Christ) of Mormon temples is a form of bondage.

 

[Janderich]

You haven’t answered the OP’s question. Which isn’t about emotions felt here or anywhere else.

“Jesus’ death atoned for all our sins, and now, as the High Priest and King, He mediates for us in heaven at the right hand of God. The Temple in Jerusalem therefore was no longer needed, so why does your church insist on having Temples?”

Temples are a place set apart from the world. There is good reason for Temples. However, even if this were not the case the burden would be on you to show why they are not now required. I see no scripture quoted on this thread that says temples are done away. Please reference and explain where there is such a scripture. Because Christ is the mediator temples are not obsolete. He was the mediator before the atonement he is the mediator after it.

RebeccaJ:

Jesus was against man made hoops, set up for others to jump through in order to believe they are God’s people. Jesus instituted Baptism and Eucharist, you can clearly find this teaching in the NT and early Christian writings.Jesus did not institute Mormon temple endowment or sealings, both of these contradict what Jesus did teach.

The two questions are related. There is no need for Mormon temples, therefore, participating in the empty ritual (not instituted by Christ) of Mormon temples is a form of bondage.

As I understand it you have seven sacraments. Do you believe these are also required? If so, I see your argument significantly lessened because some of these relate to ordinances in the temple.

 

[LivingWaters7]

I think the issue is to understand what was done in the temple anciently, and what LDS do in temples today. Catholics believe that “temples”, i.e. the Biblical temples (tabernacle, 1st and 2nd temples), are not necessary today because Christ’s sacrifice did away with the need for animal and other sacrifices.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, Catholics actually have much of what was found in the ancient temples in our own churches, basilicas, cathedrals, etc. They are regarded as sacred spaces where Heaven and Earth meet. Catholics believe that God is present there in a very special way; indeed, there is an eternally burning sanctuary lamp, in continuity with ancient Jewish temple/tabernacle practice, that symbolizes this special presence of the Lord. Catholics perform purification rituals, anointing rituals, have a sacrificial priesthood, sing psalms, have sacred festivals celebrated there, etc, all in continuity with the temple tradition that Catholicism inherited from Judaism (see Margaret Barker’s works on this).

So, I don’t think the issue is merely “Christ did away with the need for temples, Mormons have temples, therefore they are wrong”, nor “there’s no scripture given that says that temples are no longer needed, we have temples”. These are too simplistic. It isn’t just about having a building called a “temple”. The issue is, do we understand what was done in the ancient tabernacle and temple, and how do LDS, who claim to have “temples” relate to those practices? Where baptisms for the dead done there? What about eternal marriage? The Endowment? If these things were not done in the ancient temples, then the LDS temple really is not related to it. We can call buildings “temples” all we want (I believe Russian Orthodox consistently refer to their church buildings as “temples”), but what’s important is what is being done inside, and whether it relates to what was done anciently.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Temples are a place set apart from the world. There is good reason for Temples. However, even if this were not the case the burden would be on you to show why they are not now required. I see no scripture quoted on this thread that says temples are done away. Please reference and explain where there is such a scripture. Because Christ is the mediator temples are not obsolete. He was the mediator before the atonement he is the mediator after it.

As I understand it you have seven sacraments. Do you believe these are also required? If so, I see your argument significantly lessened because some of these relate to ordinances in the temple.

The purpose of the OT temple is fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Read the NT. He IS the temple that was destroyed and rebuilt in three days. Christ is the center of Christianity.

Baptism seals us to Christ, therefore, any other claimed need for any other type of divine sealing to each other is not only superfluous, it is an offense to the sacrament of Baptism.

Endowment, as far I “get it” has no Christian purpose whatsoever, so also superfluous. Christ is the New Covenant, not anything else or anyone else.

As I said, and you ignore, all seven sacraments are Biblical and can be found in the early church. Mormon temple ceremonies are a 19th century invention of Joseph Smith. A man made hoop which centers on a sel-desire to become a god.

 

[kimg901]

Then why aren’t all Mormons allowed in the temples? Why aren’t all christians allowed in your lds temples? Is it not Gods Church? Sounds like a bunch of bs to me.

 

[gazelam]

Aren’t non-Catholic Christians prohibited from partaking of the Eucharist?

Wasn’t there a time long ago when unbaptized persons were dismissed from the latter portion of Catholic Mass?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Aren’t non-Catholic Christians prohibited from partaking of the Eucharist?

Wasn’t there a time long ago when unbaptized persons were dismissed from the latter portion of Catholic Mass?

John 6, and Revelations explain what is going on at Mass. More than one Church Father publicly explains our beliefs. Ask us a question, we have no reason to hide what Jesus taught publicly and what we continue to believe and teach.

Our catechumens are still dismissed after the Liturgy of the Word, but we keep no secrets from them. They are not baptized without having been taught thoroughly the doctrines of Catholicism. They are baptized, confirmed and receive their first communion all within a short span of time. Nothing is hidden from them as a secret to be learned later.

You can’t say the same for your temple rites.