A Question for Protestants regarding the Apostles

[Izdaari]

Peace and Joy of Christ to All!

I would like to ask protestants in this forum if it is a common belief among protestants that the apostles dragged their feet after Pentecost.

An Anglican said that based on Acts 2 and Luke 24:49" And (behold) I am sending the promise of my Father upon you; but stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high." the Apostles procrastinated in Jerusalem when they should have left Jerusalem immediately after Pentecost.The claim is based on the Koine Greek of Luke 24:49 which is supposed to convey an immediacy (that is after receiving the Holy Spirit you must go at once).

This claim of course does not take into account that fact in verse 46-47, our Lord says :""Thus it is written that the Messiah would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day and that repentance, for the forgiveness of sins, would be preached in his name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem."

A further claim was also made that somehow this played right into the hands of the devil.

This is the first time I have heard of this and thought this rather absurd.

But a “Catholic priest?” told me that this is a commonly held belief among protestants.

Is this “priest?” correct?

I would really like to hear your thoughts. I would also like to hear from Catholics too if you have heard protestants make such a claim.

Thanks,

B2

I hadn’t heard of that belief before, and I’ve been on the Protestant side of the faith in churches of 6 different denominations, from fundamental Baptist to liberal Baptist, from Disciples of Christ to Lutheran to Pentecostal.

My own answer: No, the Apostles didn’t drag their feet. They did right in obeying Jesus’ instructions to wait in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit came on Pentecost and filled them with great power, such that they won 3000 converts that day. But I guess I would say that, being Pentecostal and all.

 

[JonNC]

Joe, IMO, Guanophore’s baiting you. He and others like to make this challenge knowing there is no verse that says, '… is essential.

Doki,
It has been my experience that guanophore, of all the Catholic posters, is among the least likely to play the bait or trap games. Just my experience.

Jon

 

[guanophore]

Joe, IMO, Guanophore’s baiting you. He and others like to make this challenge knowing there is no verse that says, '… is essential.

Doggone it! You outed me!

Catholics don’t have a problem with extrabiblical doctrines, since we know our doctrines all existed before any of them were written into the NT. However, it is important for our separated brethren, who believe that all doctrine must be found in the bible,that this is an extrabiblical tradition (of men, no less).

 

[benidict]

And this is exactly what my problem with FrJohn’s post was. He was posting more like a Protestant tearing the teachings of the Church down.

Coming from a protestant what he wrote would have been par for the course, but from a priest? It becomes doubly detrimental because of the perceived authority.

I have debated other Catholics on the thread who are arguing against the teaching of the Churchl The thread and posts we were referring to were no different.

I don’t think one should let a lie be, just because someone of one’s colour said it. As I’ve said many times before, Nestorious was a bishop. Our allegiance should be to the Truth.

to some extent i am in agreement with you my friend. but who should correct a priest? IF the priest is wrong on something. should it be us, the laity? or should it be another priest, or bishop? i guess what im trying to say, is if there truly is a protestant bent to what Father John is saying. it may not be a bad idea to find a priest to confront him if in fact he is in error. im remaining very neutral for a reason. i love both yall. this actually has spilled over from an earlier thread. could we maybe find a neutral Priest or Bishop to Judge? Peace and Grace to all of us. and i will go back to fighting fundamentalist, protestants. figuratively of course. Peace to you and yours.:hug3:

 

[guanophore]

to some extent i am in agreement with you my friend. but who should correct a priest? IF the priest is wrong on something. should it be us, the laity? or should it be another priest, or bishop? i guess what im trying to say, is if there truly is a protestant bent to what Father John is saying. it may not be a bad idea to find a priest to confront him if in fact he is in error. im remaining very neutral for a reason. i love both yall. this actually has spilled over from an earlier thread. could we maybe find a neutral Priest or Bishop to Judge? Peace and Grace to all of us. and i will go back to fighting fundamentalist, protestants. figuratively of course. Peace to you and yours.:hug3:

I think it is fine for a layperson to have a discussion with a priest about any matter of doctrine. It needs to be done with respect and courtesy. This is kinda difficult when one is not sure if the individual is actually a priest, or only claiming to be one.

It is one of those things that goes much better in person.

I, for one, have some unresolved wounds from priests who have departed from the faith, and it is a sensitive spot for me.

 

[benidict]

I think it is fine for a layperson to have a discussion with a priest about any matter of doctrine. It needs to be done with respect and courtesy. This is kinda difficult when one is not sure if the individual is actually a priest, or only claiming to be one.

It is one of those things that goes much better in person.

I, for one, have some unresolved wounds from priests who have departed from the faith, and it is a sensitive spot for me.

yes it would be much better if we could all meet in person. and i feel bad that you have these unresolved issues. it is a testament to your courage and your determination that you have kept the faith. i couldnt imagine if a Priest i hold in high esteem decided to leave, how i would deal with it. Peace

 

[benedictus2]

I hadn’t heard of that belief before, and I’ve been on the Protestant side of the faith in churches of 6 different denominations, from fundamental Baptist to liberal Baptist, from Disciples of Christ to Lutheran to Pentecostal.

My own answer: No, the Apostles didn’t drag their feet. They did right in obeying Jesus’ instructions to wait in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit came on Pentecost and filled them with great power, such that they won 3000 converts that day. But I guess I would say that, being Pentecostal and all.

Thank you Izdaari. Yes, to claim that somehow the apostles dragged their feet is ludicrous.

 

[benedictus2]

to some extent i am in agreement with you my friend. but who should correct a priest? IF the priest is wrong on something. should it be us, the laity? or should it be another priest, or bishop?

That depends. If the priest is making the claim in public forum then it is up to whoever is in that forum to correct the priest.

I have had quite a bit of dealing with priests who have taught error. I am a member of a church group where our spiritual director (priest) claimed that Christ did not die for our sins.

Gone are the days when the laity did not know much when it comes to doctrine. It is our duty as Christians to proclaim truth.

i guess what im trying to say, is if there truly is a protestant bent to what Father John is saying. it may not be a bad idea to find a priest to confront him if in fact he is in error. im remaining very neutral for a reason. i love both yall. this actually has spilled over from an earlier thread. could we maybe find a neutral Priest or Bishop to Judge?

But this is just the problem. We are in this internet forum and FrJohn has joined the foray. There are no bishops here. Another problem was that he had ample opportunity to correct the error but he did not do that. Instead he added to the error.

Same thing with his pm to me. I truly question the kind of theology he holds. If it is erroneous and he kept it to himself that is fine. But he went to the extent of broadcasting it here. Many people will read that post. If you leave it there, many people will be misled.

Peace and Grace to all of us. and i will go back to fighting fundamentalist, protestants. figuratively of course. Peace to you and yours.:hug3:

Yes, the last thing a Catholic would have expected was to have to defend the faith to a priest.

 

[Nicea325]

I am fully aware that before the Bible we had only oral tradition. We now have the written word, why do we need the traditions? .

No offense,but if you use the Bible and obey it,then you still follow Apostolic Traditions,only it has been written down.

 

[benidict]

That depends. If the priest is making the claim in public forum then it is up to whoever is in that forum to correct the priest.

I have had quite a bit of dealing with priests who have taught error. I am a member of a church group where our spiritual director (priest) claimed that Christ did not die for our sins.

Gone are the days when the laity did not know much when it comes to doctrine. It is our duty as Christians to proclaim truth.
But this is just the problem. We are in this internet forum and FrJohn has joined the foray. There are no bishops here. Another problem was that he had ample opportunity to correct the error but he did not do that. Instead he added to the error.

Same thing with his pm to me. I truly question the kind of theology he holds. If it is erroneous and he kept it to himself that is fine. But he went to the extent of broadcasting it here. Many people will read that post. If you leave it there, many people will be misled.
Yes, the last thing a Catholic would have expected was to have to defend the faith to a priest.

just one thing my dear sister. i love your fire for the faith. please do not ever lose that, or let anyone quench it. you are priceless. i would love to have you backing me on the fireing line any day. i may be requesting your knowlege and assistance on some other threads in the near future. thank God for people like yourself. Guanaphore, Nicea and others. even if i sometimes diagree with how you handle your disagreement with priest, and others not just yourself. i am glad there are Catholics like yourself and others out there. keep the fire alive, and keep contending for the truth. Peace and Grace to you

 

[Dokimas]

Doki,
It has been my experience that guanophore, of all the Catholic posters, is among the least likely to play the bait or trap games. Just my experience.

Jon

Up til a few weeks ago, I would have agreed.

We’ve resently just gone thought the stuff he was asking about. I hope you have a better conversation than the last one on the issue. I hope I owe Guanophore an apology. After you conversation is finished, if I’m wrong, please send me a personal message and I’ll publically apologize to him.

We could have fun with whether or not a change came after ‘til’ in my sentence.

 

[guanophore]

Up til a few weeks ago, I would have agreed.

We’ve resently just gone thought the stuff he was asking about. I hope you have a better conversation than the last one on the issue. I hope I owe Guanophore an apology. After you conversation is finished, if I’m wrong, please send me a personal message and I’ll publically apologize to him.

We could have fun with whether or not a change came after ‘til’ in my sentence.

No, I think I owe you one. I think it was unrealistic of me to expect you to understand and be able to articulate and appreciate Catholic teaching on the matter. I thought that you should be able to see things from the opposite perspective, even if you did not agree with them. It appears that my expectation was not consistent with what is possible. Whenever this happens to my expectations, I get frustrated.

I hope that I have made the adjustment, and that I can avoid expecting things from you that are not able or willing to do. This will result in my being less frustrated, and thus more tolerant.

 

[benedictus2]

just one thing my dear sister. i love your fire for the faith. please do not ever lose that, or let anyone quench it. you are priceless. i would love to have you backing me on the fireing line any day. i may be requesting your knowlege and assistance on some other threads in the near future. thank God for people like yourself. Guanaphore, Nicea and others. even if i sometimes diagree with how you handle your disagreement with priest, and others not just yourself. i am glad there are Catholics like yourself and others out there. keep the fire alive, and keep contending for the truth. Peace and Grace to you

Thank you dear brother . And if at anytime I may be of help then just say the word.

Peace and Joy of the Lord be with you.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Peace and Joy of Christ to All!

I would like to ask protestants in this forum if it is a common belief among protestants that the apostles dragged their feet after Pentecost.
No, it’s not a common belief - I’d go as far as to say it’s nearly an unheard-of belief. Until I read it today, I’d never heard of such a thing espoused by any Protestant - and I’ve studied and argued with Southern Baptist, Pentecostal, Mainline Protestant, and non-demoninational laity and ordained folks all of my adult life.

It’s a new one on me. Common belief? Hardly. As to an accurate exegesis of the text in question: I can’t even see it with a stretch of the imagination.

 

[Dokimas]

No, I think I owe you one. I think it was unrealistic of me to expect you to understand and be able to articulate and appreciate Catholic teaching on the matter. I thought that you should be able to see things from the opposite perspective, even if you did not agree with them. It appears that my expectation was not consistent with what is possible. Whenever this happens to my expectations, I get frustrated.

I hope that I have made the adjustment, and that I can avoid expecting things from you that are not able or willing to do. This will result in my being less frustrated, and thus more tolerant.

I don’t think you really believed what you said to me or were too weak to impliment your adjustments.

 

[guanophore]

I don’t think you really believed what you said to me or were too weak to impliment your adjustments.

Actually, I did believe it, but it may be I was in error. Your present efforts to understand and articulate the opposing (Catholic) point of view on the nature of the Church certainly demonstrate your willingness to try! It may be that my expectation that you will be able to do so is still unrealistic, but you are certaily making a valiant effort, and I commend you for that. :bowdown:

 

[benedictus2]

No, it’s not a common belief - I’d go as far as to say it’s nearly an unheard-of belief. Until I read it today, I’d never heard of such a thing espoused by any Protestant - and I’ve studied and argued with Southern Baptist, Pentecostal, Mainline Protestant, and non-demoninational laity and ordained folks all of my adult life.

It’s a new one on me. Common belief? Hardly. As to an accurate exegesis of the text in question: I can’t even see it with a stretch of the imagination.

Thanks Luke. I didn’t think so either.

 

[crazzeto]

I am new to this forum and this thread intrigued me. I have heard this “theory” before amongst non-denominational pastors. I have also heard it from pastor Tony Evans on the TV; God knows he could have been the one who started it.
As to it being common, could be but not in a major way. I would tend to think that it is plausible as an acceptable exegesis. So I would not go so far as to call it hogwash.

It would seem to me as a newbie that there is hatred towards the person of this Padrej. From his profile it would seem that he is going to convert. Correct me if I am wrong but it seems that most of this kind of “fussin” as my mother called it could be done as an aside item.

Hrm, well I didn’t look at the source thread at all, so I’m not sure what was happening there. I would like to comment regarding the last statement made here, I certainly have no antimosity towards Padrej and I would hope no one else would. Certainly I personally have disagreed (sometimes hotly I suppose) with him, but I guess that’s just the nature of these debates at times.

Personally I respect him very much, as to whether or not he’s going to “convert” I never got that feeling from him. Though I would say I’d personally love to have one more genuine, very intelligent (perhaps clergy upon converting?) seeker like him in the Catholic Church. Last time I talked with him though, he made his feelings clear that he tended not to agree with Catholic theology as much as with his own.