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pismopal
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I don’t blame the thread’s author for any attempt to " jump on protestants ". I enjoy seeing Catholics defend the faith and sometimes the difference between attack and defense is a matter of who is doing it to whom. Besides…pointing out defects in someone’s theology is not exactly a personal attack and it is very hard to discuss the subject without torquing someone off anyway unless we are all going to sit around complimenting each others errors. We can extend that courtesy I suppose to those who are in gross heresy.Does anyone other than me notice that this thread became a chance for Catholics to jump on Protestants, despite the innocent sounding question that started it?
To my Protestant friends, there is no way you could have answered this question without being attacked. I am one Roman Catholic who is very sorry for that.
By the way, as long as the fundamentalist fringe of the Catholic Church continues to attack Protestants, they should not be surprised that the fundamentalist fringe of the Protestant Church will attack Catholics. Were we to sit down and talk like true brothers and sisters in Christ, we might find that we are truly ONE CHURCH with a lot of misunderstandings among us.
I am one very happy Roman Catholic
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gcnuss
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I would say yes – but. And the “but” is a big one. It requires a common understanding of who, here on Earth, has the authority to define the Church’s teachings, Doctrine and Dogmas. Unfortunately, no such agreement exists. Even between the two traditions (Catholic and Orthodox) most closely aligned, there is not full agreement.OK
Given the current state of disagreement, I am forced to think that I will only experience full unity in the Church Triumphant.
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PJM
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tabbey48
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I sadly agree.
The very fact that we need to underline and add commentary to the Scripture verses we quote to prove our point shows how deeply divided we have become. All of us (Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant) think we are being true to the teachings of Jesus. Too many are unwilling to even consider that there may be honest Christians who disagree with our version of Christianity.Pope Benedict XVI, like Pope John Paul II before him, gives us an example by reaching out to people of all faiths without condemning them. It doesn’t mean he agrees completely with them. But it does mean that he accepts them as people of great worth who are also seeking God.
Perhaps our happy Catholic/Christian life will draw them better than angry words and long-winded arguments.
I suspect that there are going to be a lot of surprised people in Heaven when we finally understand the great GRACE and MERCY of our God. We will be surprised at those we meet in Heaven; and they will be equally surprised that we are there!
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Robbinson
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I’m a Catholic convert - very much drawn to the Church by (i) the Eucharist and (ii) Jesus’s description of “a” Church where disptues can be resolved and the authority He gave to Peter and the apostles.
That being said, I believe the Holy Spirit is working actively throughout the entire body of Christ (all denominations) and pray for unity in the body.
Blessings,
Brian
That being said, I believe the Holy Spirit is working actively throughout the entire body of Christ (all denominations) and pray for unity in the body.
Blessings,
Brian
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mflorence
Guest
I like your post. My sense is that you are not conversing with mainstream Catholics on this website. I was rather taken aback myself until someone pointed that out to me sometime ago. I think that this sort of thinking used to give rise to things like inquisitions, crusades and other atrocities, but these sorts of thinkers are now relegated to posting on websites. Pretty harmless really but very amusing if you take it in stride. I was a Catholic all my life and never personally ran into this sort of desperate contempt for other faiths among the ranks of the people I met. On occasion you would meet a priest like that, but usually they would fall apart on their own at some point and get taken out of public view presumably to so some back office duties or something like that. If you want to have a serious discussion on faith, I have found it better to just sit and talk with people. On the other hand, this is good entertainment, but keep it in perspective.Does anyone other than me notice that this thread became a chance for Catholics to jump on Protestants, despite the innocent sounding question that started it?
To my Protestant friends, there is no way you could have answered this question without being attacked. I am one Roman Catholic who is very sorry for that.
By the way, as long as the fundamentalist fringe of the Catholic Church continues to attack Protestants, they should not be surprised that the fundamentalist fringe of the Protestant Church will attack Catholics. Were we to sit down and talk like true brothers and sisters in Christ, we might find that we are truly ONE CHURCH with a lot of misunderstandings among us.
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excubitor
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I certainly don’t believe that Catholic’s should attack Protestants but I do not think it is wrong to confront them. The truth is very confronting and provoking. We may find that some Protestants react in anger at such a pointed question. However the Protestant needs to be confronted on his belief. I was similarly confronted and went through great pain of conversion.
We are not doing any good thing for Protestants by leaving them in the dark for the sake of peace. I know there is a delicate balance between pointlessly stirring up trouble and preaching the gospel, however we should trust our fellow Catholics to find the right balance. As we are all human we will from time to time err to one side or another, and who can say which side is the worse to err upon.
I have found that Protestants are far more inclined to attack! than Catholics. Catholics tend to be annoyingly smug and if you argue with them they just kind of shrug and move off.
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Nicea325
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To those who follow a church founded by mere men.
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Nicea325
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Araninski
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Well I don’t believe Jesus founded a Church, I believe Christ gave us the blessing to be called His Church to all of His faithful believers. We are one though some don’t recognize it. However this doesn’t matter at then end, all the true believers are going to be in Heaven as the Bride of Christ and everyone is going to see, the Church is one, even though in Earth people couldn’t recognize it.
God bless
God bless
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excubitor
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What did he mean then when he said " I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Matt 16:18
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Araninski
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He meant that He will build a Church on the faith of the ones who follow Him.
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excubitor
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What’s the difference between founding a church and building a church?
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Izdaari
Guest
I agree completely.
But note that “catholic” and “Catholic” are not the same thing. Capitalization changes the meaning. (Of course the person I’m quoting, being Lutheran, is aware of that; I say it for the possible edification of others.)
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excubitor
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No it doesn’t and I am not edified but rather horrified. catholic and Catholic mean universal.I agree completely.
But note that “catholic” and “Catholic” are not the same thing. Capitalization changes the meaning. (Of course the person I’m quoting, being Lutheran, is aware of that; I say it for the possible edification of others.)
I believe in the one holy apostolic catholic church and I am a baptised and confirmed member of the one holy apostolic catholic church. That makes me a Catholic. If someone is not a Catholic then they are not baptised and confirmed members of the one holy apostolic catholic church. It is as simple as that. (Provided we don’t get into distinctives like “subsists” and baptism of desire and the like).
This notion of catholic vs. Catholic is an of innovation Martin Luther and other protestant reformers. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted to be part of the church of the creed but did not want to be a part of the church proper. So they con-fuddled the meaning of words to turn the word catholic into a kind of mystical invisible church, and the word Catholic to indicate what they regarded as the corrupted Popish church filled with all its papalness.
What they did was nothing less than an utter obfuscation and distortion of the language.
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Izdaari
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Well, if I agreed with you and other Catholics here that the Catholic Church was the one holy apostolic catholic church, I’d really have no choice but to become Catholic. That we don’t agree on that is what it means to say you’re Catholic and I’m Protestant. But still, we are both Christians. (Though some extreme Protestants and some extreme Catholics have trouble choking that down.
)
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excubitor
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It’s not just that we don’t agree that is the issue here. It is that one side has to invent ideas and innovative manipulations of the creed in order to justify their position and the other side doesn’t.Well, if I agreed with you and other Catholics here that the Catholic Church was the one holy apostolic catholic church, I’d really have no choice but to become Catholic. That we don’t agree on that is what it means to say you’re Catholic and I’m Protestant. But still, we are both Christians. (Though some extreme Protestants and some extreme Catholics have trouble choking that down.
I was on your side of the fence once too, as an ardent protestant. I was confronted with arguments such as these and came to the same conclusion that you have, that I had no choice but to become Catholic. Knowing this, I was tempted to hold onto my former erroneous position on subjects such as the “one catholic church” for example in order to maintain the status quo and stay with my comfortable fellowship. Or else I could live out my profession of truth and in the face of all cultural and family opposition convert to the position of truth.
You have the same choice.
Sadly, few protestants today recite the creed, and those few who do choke at the bit that goes “I believe in the one holy apostolic catholic church”.
Especially the poor folk who only recite it once or twice a year and haven’t been shown how to explain away the creed with the catholic/Catholic argument. These folk almost have seizures when they are called upon to say those words.
Poor misled people.
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