A question for reflection

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TonyBS said:
Drac16 - I like to see the progression in guidance on these Matters from Christianity on to Muhammad and now Baha’u’llah.

“O SON OF DUST! Verily I say unto thee: Of all men the most negligent is he that disputeth idly and seeketh to advance himself over his brother. Say, O brethren! Let deeds, not words, be your adorning”

“Live ye one with another, O people, in radiance and joy. By My life! All that are on earth shall pass away, while good deeds alone shall endure; to the truth of My words God doth Himself bear witness. Compose your differences, O My servants; then heed ye the admonition of Our Pen of Glory and follow not the arrogant and wayward”.

Regards Tony
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Hello, Tony. Where do those quotes come from?
 
PJM said:
Catholic Hold that Easter in the Summit of all feast day’s

What is the position of your church? Your faith?

And WHY?
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Yes. It is Christ’s victory (and ours through Him) over death. He is the first fruits.
“Why do you seek the living among the dead?”

Jon
 
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guanophore said:
I have to lean with Jon on this one. We are saved neither by faith or works, but wholly by the unmerited favor of God, purchased for us by the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. We access this grace through faith, a faith of a particular kind - it is a faith that works, thus demonstrating it’s authenticity through it’s fruit.
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👍👍👍
 
PJM said:
My friend,

Is one Saved by Works, or Faith or?

WHY?

God Bless you

PJM
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The LDS view is that Eternal Life is gifted to those who are continually doing Godly works and actions (which would include repenting of one’s sins, of course).
 
guanophore said:
I have to lean with Jon on this one. We are saved neither by faith or works, but wholly by the unmerited favor of God, purchased for us by the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. We access this grace through faith, a faith of a particular kind - it is a faith that works, thus demonstrating it’s authenticity through it’s fruit.
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👍
 
JonNC said:
Of course I agree with you, but there are some who do not. Even some of Luther’s writings show a slight wedge of faith need not be formed. It isn’t what Lutheranism says, of course, but some do.

Jon
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Who, in the Lutheran faith is responsible for teaching it’s followers the definition of faith as Martin Luther understood it? It seems Pope Benedict felt a need to caveat his statement about Martin Luthers beliefs on faith with the importance of not excluding charity from faith. Did Benedict do this because many don’t know how Martin Luther defined faith?
 
1Lord1Faith said:
Who, in the Lutheran faith is responsible for teaching it’s followers the definition of faith as Martin Luther understood it? It seems Pope Benedict felt a need to caveat his statement about Martin Luthers beliefs on faith with the importance of not excluding charity from faith. Did Benedict do this because so many don’t know how Martin Luther defined faith?
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There are many who don’t know what Luther taught, but that is not entirely relevant to Lutheranism. The faith of Lutherans (oddly, given the name) is not based upon Luther’s writings as much as it is the Book of Concord and the Creeds. In the end, Luther did not decide what Lutheran’s would believe.

One of the reasons that Lutheranism is fracturing today is that many Lutherans have abandoned the catechism just as many Catholics do .
 
1Lord1Faith said:
Who, in the Lutheran faith is responsible for teaching it’s followers the definition of faith as Martin Luther understood it? It seems Pope Benedict felt a need to caveat his statement about Martin Luthers beliefs on faith with the importance of not excluding charity from faith. Did Benedict do this because many don’t know how Martin Luther defined faith?
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Actually, I think Pope Benedict did this with Luther’s commentary on Galatians 5:6 (post 7) in mind, quite frankly. Remember, Pope Benedict is probably more inclined to pastoral care and instruction of Catholics than he is Lutherans.

That said, and as Guan pointed out, Lutheran catechesis isn’t always well taught or well followed. :o
 
JonNC said:
Actually, I think Pope Benedict did this with Luther’s commentary on Galatians 5:6 (post 7) in mind, quite frankly. Remember, Pope Benedict is probably more inclined to pastoral care and instruction of Catholics than he is Lutherans.

That said, and as Guan pointed out, Lutheran catechesis isn’t always well taught or well followed. :o
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I think a Catholic could read the Small and Large Catechism and have difficulty finding anything uncatholic.

It is important also to note, as you have posted many times, that Luther’s idea of “faith alone” is very different from the superficial interpretations used by superficial evangelicals today. Some choose to sieze instead on his writing about “sinning big” to the exclusion of others.
 
guanophore said:
It is certainly not meaningless to those of us who pray and yearn for the healing of divisions in the Church! The Pope of Luther’s day was unable to make such an affirmation, and it has been a long time coming. One of the reasons Catholics so love our German Shepherd!

Jon is right in saying that there are many who suffer a deficient understanding of saving faith, and think it is only an assent of the will, that need not demonstrate the fruit of charity.
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Lutherans, too, many of us, love the German Shepherd, and in some ways, consider him ours, too

Jon
 
TonyBS said:
Faith and Words are only worthwhile if supported by deeds.

It is said in this time to let service to humanity and deeds be your adorning, thus your Faith living truth and words are not needed.

Regards Tony
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Agreed, Thank you
 
JonNC said:
Galatians 5:6 ** For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but faith which worketh by love.**

Luther’s commentary:

From the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification:

Hence, I believe that we are saved by grace alone, and that our justification is by faith working through love.

Jon
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Hi Jon, I KNEW I’d hear from you on this when I posted the OPQ:)

God Bless,

Patrick
 
alwayswill said:
from the Vatican website
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html
JOINT DECLARATION
ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION

by the Lutheran World Federation
and the Catholic Church
vatican.va/roman_curia/po…ration_en.html

“25.We confess together that sinners are justified by faith in the saving action of God in Christ. By the action of the Holy Spirit in baptism, they are granted the gift of salvation, which lays the basis for the whole Christian life. They place their trust in God’s gracious promise by justifying faith, which includes hope in God and love for him. Such a faith is active in love and thus the Christian cannot and should not remain without works.**
But whatever in the justified precedes or follows the free gift of faith is neither the basis of justification nor merits it. **”​

read that again:

** But whatever** in the justified
** precedes
or
follows** the free gift of faith
** is neither the basis of justification nor merits it.**
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Thank you, I was aware of this:)

God Bless you,
Patrick
 
guanophore said:
I have to lean with Jon on this one. We are saved neither by faith or works, but wholly by the unmerited favor of God, purchased for us by the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. We access this grace through faith, a faith of a particular kind - it is a faith that works, thus demonstrating it’s authenticity through it’s fruit.
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AMEN!
 
alwayswill said:
Got it:
Hebrews 11:6 “And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.”

No amount of good works from the faithless are pleasing to God

A yet it is **impossible **
by those in Christ and Christ in them, a new creature, the old is gone, the heart of stone replaced by a heart of flesh, change by a supernatural event; the gift of faith from God ,
to be opposed to faith in charity, in love
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As a FYI,

We Catholics Do NOT teach or believe that we CAn “work our way into heaven”; through WORKS ALONE:)
 
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