Whether a person ‘breaks away’ outwardly or inwardly is of little concequence AND are the same in reality. It’s what is in the heart that matters. Jesus spoke of this reality: ex. – adultery of the heart and physically.Well, your "sureness’ of this does not make it so, Doki. A denomination is something that is taken from another. Those that reject the Teachings of the Apostles preserved in the Catholic Church automatically excommunicate themselves from the unity of the One Church founded by Christ. Most of these Catholics have become Protestants, and don’t realize it. In ignorance, they continue to call themselves Catholics after they have willfully departed from the Catholic faith.
The Church is unified because Jesus, the Head, makes it so. Those that disconnect from the Head cause a wound to unity.
I have read many of your posts, and you are adamant in finding something “wrong” with the Catholic Church. Something more you can point to that strengthens your own feelings about it. If the Church were divided, it would give greater reason to point your finger. In the end, I am not stating something you do not already recognize in yourself. Something that you, yourself, know to be true. A divided Church, would have little ground to stand upon. If the Church were divided as you imply, often I may add, you would be more in the right with some of your claims.Why on earth would I hope this???
I have read many of your posts, and you are adamant in finding something “wrong” with the Catholic Church. Something more you can point to that strengthens your own feelings about it. If the Church were divided, it would give greater reason to point your finger. In the end, I am not stating something you do not already recognize in yourself. Something that you, yourself, know to be true. A divided Church, would have little ground to stand upon. If the Church were divided as you imply, often I may add, you would be more in the right with some of your claims.
Don’t ask questions that you know the answers to in your heart. You tell us why you would like to see the Catholic Church divided.
Will take you at your word on this. You are asking practicing Catholics all these questions however, and as good as some of us may be at answering them, perhaps it’s time you spoke to clergy about some of your questions. Clergy should be able to give better responses to some of the questions than others of us here. The CC can ALWAYS stand up to every question perfectly, it’s a matter of the ears that hear it as well. The CC never fails in it’s understanding and practice, some of us members do.I’m NOT trying to find anything wrong with the CC!!! However, when you and the CC makes the claims you do about your church, then it should ALWAYS be able to stand up to every question perfectly. As all Christian churches, the CC fails in its understanding and practice occationally, IMO.
Part of my questions come directly because of the catholic claims here about themselves AND that challenge things about protestants.Will take you at your word on this. You are asking practicing Catholics all these questions however, and as good as some of us may be at answering them, perhaps it’s time you spoke to clergy about some of your questions. Clergy should be able to give better responses to some of the questions than others of us here. The CC can ALWAYS stand up to every question perfectly, it’s a matter of the ears that hear it as well. The CC never fails in it’s understanding and practice, some of us members do.
Is understandable. Most of the Catholic claims here are 95% true I would say however. But that is just my opinion.Part of my questions come directly because of the catholic claims here about themselves AND that challenge things about protestants.
You claimed that the communal Lenten fast was a violation of the scripture that certain foods are forbidden.. Not true. Apples with apples.
Young male seminarians do not “become priests”.. ]**So a young male seminarian which becomes a priest CAN get married and remain a priest, work his way up the rank to bishop then cardinal and one day pope? **
Indeed, as were many of the apostles and early bishops. The Catholic Church does not forbid marriage to anyone. She cannot, for it is not within her power to do.. Your first pope was married.
It is a communal fasting period Doki. the guidelines decided by the shepherds apply to all who are in communion. No one “forces” anyone to be in communion with the authorities appointed by Christ.. And shouldn’t be mandated!!!
The Apostles followed the standards and liturgical practice they were taught in their Jewish culture.. What Jewish standard tole the Jews to fast from meat on Friday’s? That’s what this discussion is about.
I absolutely agree with this, Doki. Those who have abandoned the faith, whether in their hearts, or in their practice, have fallen away from the perfect unity that exists in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Jesus only founded ONE CHURCH. All who depart from it create wounds to unity.Whether a person ‘breaks away’ outwardly or inwardly is of little concequence AND are the same in reality. It’s what is in the heart that matters. Jesus spoke of this reality: ex. – adultery of the heart and physically.
Of course you are finding fault, Doki! If y ou could not continually find fault, you would be morally obligated to become Catholic. You must, therefore, persist in a continual quest to find ways that the CC “fails in its understanding and practice”. You must apply the standards that you think are better, and find the CC wanting.I’m NOT trying to find anything wrong with the CC!!! However, when you and the CC makes the claims you do about your church, then it should ALWAYS be able to stand up to every question perfectly. As all Christian churches, the CC fails in its understanding and practice occationally, IMO.
Your either misinformed or blinded: I DO NOT want the CC to be divided. It would, however, be nice for the CC and reality to match up a little better. I’m not pointing fingers as my life falls short too often.
The CC is like me and you and all of us, wanting. Jesus only wants in the sense He wants us to follow Him out of love and thankfulness. And surely it will be include the church God’s lead us to.I absolutely agree with this, Doki. Those who have abandoned the faith, whether in their hearts, or in their practice, have fallen away from the perfect unity that exists in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Jesus only founded ONE CHURCH. All who depart from it create wounds to unity.
Of course you are finding fault, Doki! If y ou could not continually find fault, you would be morally obligated to become Catholic. You must, therefore, persist in a continual quest to find ways that the CC “fails in its understanding and practice”. You must apply the standards that you think are better, and find the CC wanting.
Right. But IF the CC were to say that adultery is forbidden for priests but allowable for everyone else, some people would crow, “SEE! The CC allows adultery!”-There is NO exception in the Bible for adulery being WRONG because it is wrong. I haven’t seen any exception in the Bible for mandating church leaders being unmarried. Sure Paul would prefer it, but he also says that church leaders should have but one wife. (Not mandating is the key)
Apples with apples.
There is only ONE Catholic Church teaching on the issues I provided.Never said it did. That’s not in question as far as I’m concerned.
It’s your claim of the ‘factorial’ math of the 40,000 denominations vs the 100’s of thousands of differing views within the CC. It’s a poor argument against the CC and against non-catholic Christians. That’s why it’s getting OLD.
As you know, there are many common beliefs between the CC and non-catholic Christians. Beliefs that separated us from ALL non-Christian belief systems. That’s what we should be majoring on, IMO.
No.-As all Christian churches, the CC fails in its understanding and practice occationally, IMO.
No, the Church can’t be “wanting” because her Head is Christ, and her soul is the HS. God is completely sufficient.The CC is like me and you and all of us, wanting. Jesus only wants in the sense He wants us to follow Him out of love and thankfulness. And surely it will be include the church God’s lead us to.
I’m not sure why you’re being so knit-picky here.Right. But IF the CC were to say that adultery is forbidden for priests but allowable for everyone else, some people would crow, “SEE! The CC allows adultery!”
But when the CC says marriage is “forbidden” for priests (which is actually not a correct way to propose its teachings, but I’m going with your proposal here), but allowable for everyone else, you say, “SEE! The CC forbids marriage!”
It’s hypocritical.
We are required to stand against the calumny.I’m not sure why you’re being so knit-picky here.
The Catholic Church cannot forbid marriage. She was not given that power by God.
- Early church leaders had wives. 1 Timothy 4 warns against forbidding marriage (to one part or all parts of the church; the verse doesn’t specify; IMO, both or all are included).
There is only ONE Catholic Church teaching on the issues I provided.
There are hundreds of thousands of teachings from Protestants on those issues. That is the definition of chaos and confusion–wrought by the Devil, IMHO.
So the Bible is inspired but has error, but the CC is infallible and inspired. Hmm.No.
Catholics fail in our understanding of God’s revelation. The CC does not.
In the sense of Psalm 23, all who are shepherd by Jesus ‘do not want’. So you are correct if that’s what you mean. However, only the Head is not wanting in any sense, IMO.No, the Church can’t be “wanting” because her Head is Christ, and her soul is the HS. God is completely sufficient.
I do agree, however that Catholic persona are always “wanting”. People are always in need of reform and infilling.
The problem is that people have a deficient view of the Church. They think it is comprised only of the “gathering of believers on earth”, which constitutes only one part of the Church. The Church triumphant, those who have gone on before us in the faith, will never want again for anything, because they are in heaven, and have no suffering, and no tears anymore.
No, it is not. The difference is that the Catholic Church has one doctrine. It is, since the Apostolic times “ONE FAITH”. Those who depart from the TEachings do not dilute the faith for anyone but themselves. Their apostasy does not change the One Faith. It just means they are in rebellion against it.I grant you that for the most part, the CC has individual teachings on a subject. However, my point was there are many, many catholics that, in practice or belief, disagree with the CC. That is what is synonomous with 40,000 denominational differences.
Jesus did not set up a democracy. His Kingdom is a theocracy. The Pope cannot “step down” because of other people’s sins, or even his own. He was not placed in office because he is impeccable.Just think, how many catholics would be left if all would leave if they were NOT in agreement with the CC 100%? Ex. - how many would be left if all who thought the present pope should step down because of the ‘sex’ scandal?
The difference is that there is no unity of doctrine among them. Well, I will not say “none” but they cannot claim to have “one faith”.I think it’s time to leave the ‘40,000’ denomination argument. It doesn’t make sense in light of all the differences within the CC.