A question for the anti-abortionists

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right now, abortion is legal, but it hasnt been legal forever. if you were to have your way, criminalizing abortion once more, what do you think the ramifications would be? remember that “back street” abortions were quite abundant back in the day, and that not only could they result in a botched abortion where the baby survived, but was badly harmed, but that the mothers were often severely injured, or even died due to them. knowing that something being illegal doesnt stop it from happening, are you okay with the harm these women and babies would come to if abortion was outlawed once again?
 
Just because people have a right to do it today does not make them right in doing it.

Honestly this line of reasoning could be used for all kinds of illegal activity. Drugs, if made legal and were regularized by the federal Government could be made safer. Also you could potentially get rid of all the violence that comes from botched drug deals, seeing as there would be no need for drug dealers if you could pick up some LSD as you were standing in the check out line.

Plus, if I remember correctly, “back street” abortions are still done today despite abortion being legal.

On a side note, I find great irony in the fact that all people who are pro-abortion have all been born? 🤷

God bless
 
Roman_Catholic said:
Just because people have a right to do it today does not make them right in doing it.

Honestly this line of reasoning could be used for all kinds of illegal activity. Drugs, if made legal and were regularized by the federal Government could be made safer. Also you could potentially get rid of all the violence that comes from botched drug deals, seeing as there would be no need for drug dealers if you could pick up some LSD as you were standing in the check out line.

Plus, if I remember correctly, “back street” abortions are still done today despite abortion being legal.

On a side note, I find great irony in the fact that all people who are pro-abortion have all been born? 🤷

God bless
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…

thanks?

but what does any of that have to do with a single thing i asked or mentioned?

EDIT: and im not sure what you found, exactly, but it wasnt irony…
 
iamme said:
…

thanks?

but what does any of that have to do with a single thing i asked or mentioned?

EDIT: and im not sure what you found, exactly, but it wasnt irony…
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I answered your question. Your logic is flawed.

God bless
 
iamme said:
right now, abortion is legal, but it hasnt been legal forever. if you were to have your way, criminalizing abortion once more, what do you think the ramifications would be? remember that “back street” abortions were quite abundant back in the day, and that not only could they result in a botched abortion where the baby survived, but was badly harmed, but that the mothers were often severely injured, or even died due to them. knowing that something being illegal doesnt stop it from happening, are you okay with the harm these women and babies would come to if abortion was outlawed once again?
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Do you know who Mary Ann Warren is?

Well, she is a pro-choice philosopher, ardent feminist, and downright intelligent woman. She says,

…the fact that restricting access to abortion has tragic side effects does not, in itself, show that the restrictions are unjustified, since murder is wrong regardless of the consequences of prohibiting it…

So, there you go.

But I would like to take a moment an address the infamous “back alley abortion” nonsense. I call it nonsense because that’s precisely what it is.

First of all, do you know who Dr. Bernard Nathalson is?

Well, he is the co-founder of NARAL (a pro-choice organization) and said this of the “back alley abortion” numbers his organization reported:

How many deaths were we talking about when abortion was illegal? In N.A.R.A.L. we generally emphasized the drama of the individual case, not the mass statistics, but when we spoke of the latter it was always “5,000 to 10,000 deaths a year.” **I confess that I knew the figures were totally false, and I suppose the others did too if they stopped to think of it. **But in the “morality” of the revolution, it was a useful figure, widely accepted, so why go out of our way to correct it with honest statistics. The overriding concern was to get the laws eliminated, and anything within reason which had to be done was permissible.

The whole “back alley abortion” argument, as well as the two infamous rape and incest arguments, are little more than emotional screens the pro-abortion crowd puts up to help keep the billion dollar industry rolling.

P.S. And please do not start pasting Guttmacher Institute links. Alan Guttmacher is the former head of Planned Parenthood, and his “institute” is funded by Planned Parenthood. As a writer for NRTL, I’m well aware of what they report on this issue, and I can not only prove their conclusion false, but I can provide you detailed examples of their penchant for dishonesty.

References:
*
See Daniel Callahan, Abortion: Law, Choice, and Morality (New York: Macmillan, 1970), pp. 132-136; and Stephen Krason, Abortion: Politics, Morality, and the Constitution (Lanham, MD: University Press of America, 1984), pp. 301-310. *
 
I’m not even OK with the harm women currently come to in legal abortion. I almost died from mine. My babies did die.
I have to think first of the person whose life is directly and deliberately threatened when choosing where to place my main sympathies. The baby (I accept no euphemisms here) is the intended victim of the abortion. To worry about the safety of the killers when a muder is in the works is less than rational IMO. It is certainly less than kind.
 
maslibertad said:
yes they broke the law and attempted to murder.
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thank you for being the only person to actually answer my question.

and roman-catholic, i still have no idea what youre talking about. you didnt answer my question, and my logic cant be flawed because i wasnt making a proposal, or an opinion, i was asking a question.

beltany, i guess those are neat quotes, but i wanted to know what YOU think.
tho i would like to see some references that show there being a billion dollar abortion industry. i know about the medical industry, but billions of dollars in profits for abortion?
 
my responce is this…to convince me all you have to do is show the upside of murdering babies. whats the pro killing babies argument?
 
survive said:
I’m not even OK with the harm women currently come to in legal abortion. I almost died from mine. My babies did die.
I have to think first of the person whose life is directly and deliberately threatened when choosing where to place my main sympathies. The baby (I accept no euphemisms here) is the intended victim of the abortion. To worry about the safety of the killers when a muder is in the works is less than rational IMO. It is certainly less than kind.
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well, the doctors performing the abortion would be the only murderers here (i will accept no different opinion) as the pregnant woman doesnt lift a tool to do anything to the fetus.
 
passivesquid said:
my responce is this…to convince me all you have to do is show the upside of murdering babies. whats the pro killing babies argument?
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there are defects in the womb that can be a risk to the life of the mother, and the baby wouldnt survive outside of an hour anyway, such as an external spine, and other deformities. an abortion doesnt risk the life of the mother, whereas delivering a baby just to die ensures the babys death, and risks the mothers.
 
iamme said:
well, the doctors performing the abortion would be the only murderers here (i will accept no different opinion) as the pregnant woman doesnt lift a tool to do anything to the fetus.
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Indded, I do consider the mother an accessory before the fact who is often acting under duress or undue influence.
 
survive said:
Indded, I do consider the mother an accessory before the fact who is often acting under duress or undue influence.
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well, considering both those things (duress and influence) that would make her a victim, not an accessory.
 
iamme said:
thank you for being the only person to actually answer my question.

and roman-catholic, i still have no idea what youre talking about. you didnt answer my question, and my logic cant be flawed because i wasnt making a proposal, or an opinion, i was asking a question.

beltany, i guess those are neat quotes, but i wanted to know what YOU think.
tho i would like to see some references that show there being a billion dollar abortion industry. i know about the medical industry, but billions of dollars in profits for abortion?
Click to expand...
Hmm. By providing those quotes, it should be obvious what I think.

If you read Planned Parenthood’s final year report, you’ll see that in a typical year, just Planned Parenthood ends up with cash assets of about a million dollars. That’s a million a year for just Planned Parenthood! How many doctors worldwide not affiliated with Planned Parenthood perform abortions? Quite a few.

It’s a billion dollar industry. Here is the PDF for their end of year report: plannedparenthood.org/files/AR_2007_vFinal.pdf
 
iamme said:
well, considering both those things (duress and influence) that would make her a victim, not an accessory.
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How does further victimizing and exploiting the mother solve anything?
 
Beltany13 said:
Do you know who Mary Ann Warren is?

Well, she is a pro-choice philosopher, ardent feminist, and downright intelligent woman. She says,

…the fact that restricting access to abortion has tragic side effects does not, in itself, show that the restrictions are unjustified, since murder is wrong regardless of the consequences of prohibiting it…

So, there you go.

But I would like to take a moment an address the infamous “back alley abortion” nonsense. I call it nonsense because that’s precisely what it is.

First of all, do you know who Dr. Bernard Nathalson is?

Well, he is the co-founder of NARAL (a pro-choice organization) and said this of the “back alley abortion” numbers his organization reported:

How many deaths were we talking about when abortion was illegal? In N.A.R.A.L. we generally emphasized the drama of the individual case, not the mass statistics, but when we spoke of the latter it was always “5,000 to 10,000 deaths a year.” **I confess that I knew the figures were totally false, and I suppose the others did too if they stopped to think of it. **But in the “morality” of the revolution, it was a useful figure, widely accepted, so why go out of our way to correct it with honest statistics. The overriding concern was to get the laws eliminated, and anything within reason which had to be done was permissible.

The whole “back alley abortion” argument, as well as the two infamous rape and incest arguments, are little more than emotional screens the pro-abortion crowd puts up to help keep the billion dollar industry rolling.

P.S. And please do not start pasting Guttmacher Institute links. Alan Guttmacher is the former head of Planned Parenthood, and his “institute” is funded by Planned Parenthood. As a writer for NRTL, I’m well aware of what they report on this issue, and I can not only prove their conclusion false, but I can provide you detailed examples of their penchant for dishonesty.

References:
*
See Daniel Callahan, Abortion: Law, Choice, and Morality (New York: Macmillan, 1970), pp. 132-136; and Stephen Krason, Abortion: Politics, Morality, and the Constitution (Lanham, MD: University Press of America, 1984), pp. 301-310. *
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Bravo. Thank you for this response. I look forward to more posts.
 
iamme said:
right now, abortion is legal, but it hasnt been legal forever. if you were to have your way, criminalizing abortion once more, what do you think the ramifications would be? remember that “back street” abortions were quite abundant back in the day, and that not only could they result in a botched abortion where the baby survived, but was badly harmed, but that the mothers were often severely injured, or even died due to them. knowing that something being illegal doesnt stop it from happening, are you okay with the harm these women and babies would come to if abortion was outlawed once again?
Click to expand...
Iamme you certainly sound OK or even not disturbed that 40 million infants per year are killed in their mother’s womb. Does that not matter? Give me facts not fantasy about the figures of women who were killed by the backyard abortion. facts not the facts diddled by the pro abortion lobby to try and win “hearts” to their cause. The next step in the abortion lobby’s tactic will be the insistance on the rights of a woman to her request for a “dead baby” that will next be enshrined in law.
Iamme you are concerned that a woman is harmed by her backyard abortion, but you are not concerned for all the babies who die via the medium of abortion. Babies of all gestational ages. Yes indeed even those who are “born alive from an abortion” will be required to be left to die in the future, damamged or not.
Abortion means the killing of a pre born infant. It means the killing of a very small child whose right to life has been enshrined in God’s book of Life. A conceived child is God’s “Amen” and in that “Amen” rests its natural right to be born.
Shame on you even suggesting otherwise.
Abortion is a crime against life and against God, who is “I am the Way the Truth and the Life”
GraceAngel.
 
Beltany13 said:
Hmm. By providing those quotes, it should be obvious what I think.

If you read Planned Parenthood’s final year report, you’ll see that in a typical year, just Planned Parenthood ends up with cash assets of about a million dollars. That’s a million a year for just Planned Parenthood! How many doctors worldwide not affiliated with Planned Parenthood perform abortions? Quite a few.

It’s a billion dollar industry. Here is the PDF for their end of year report: plannedparenthood.org/files/AR_2007_vFinal.pdf
Click to expand...
Like you said, that’s planned parenthood. Many other abortionists are not affiliated with PP but rather work in unaffiliated offices taking cash money for abortions which is not reported to the IRS. It is known that the mob is involved in abortion rackets.
archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/3/30/142843.shtml
 
iamme said:
there are defects in the womb that can be a risk to the life of the mother, and the baby wouldnt survive outside of an hour anyway, such as an external spine, and other deformities. an abortion doesnt risk the life of the mother, whereas delivering a baby just to die ensures the babys death, and risks the mothers.
Click to expand...
so you think for this one situation abortion should be legal for woman who use it as birth control? who could use birth control but can’t remember to take a pill every day, can’t be bothered to get a needle once a month and “don’t like” how condoms feel? (and could get it all for free?)

I don’t think this one situation calls for widespread legalized abortions. This allows for parents and men to force young women (who might just be wonderful moms!) into clinics to murder their unborn children. We can educate woman now like never before, and prevent pregnancies with a whole lot more methods than ever before.

I in No way condone sex before marriage or birth control. But abortion legal as a free for all? NO WAY!!

Furthermore the tax dollars spent on abortions disgusts me, especially when dental care is so important and so neglected because it’s sooo expensive. You can have three or four abortions on the house each year, but don’t ask for a free dental cleaning…gasp…preventative health care.
 
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