A question for the anti-abortionists

[LeroyCRHP]

The ramifications are I would push for comprehensive plan for life.

I would push for a real Planned Parenthood program, not the program of death they presently support. They already have buildings in areas that need a lot of help so convert them to helping the people of the neighborhood.

There are so many beautiful couples wanting to adopt.

We need to teach the value of life and the consequences of teenage pregnancy.

We should push for better child care facilities.

Also, there will be 1 million more babies and families 1 year later that are likely to need help. Gerber Foods and Pampers will be happy! I would call them the Generation Life babies. To be selfish, in 20 years there will be 1 million more people paying for my retirement. In 25 years there will be 5 million more people paying into social security.

 

[Doc2be]

Iamme

your original post said this at the end:

are you okay with the harm these women and babies would come to if abortion was outlawed once again?

Are you okay currently supporting a system that can easily (I mean feel no guilt what-so-ever) kill 1.2 million people a year?

Are you okay with a system that is supposedly all about a woman’s health, but does nothing to support her, or her soul? There isn’t much left for many women after an abortion. They get the abortion and if there are no complications are are sent on their way. Many of them go back to an abusive relationship/family. I am not okay with that sort of harm. This is a system that reduces life down to a decision of convenience.

I understand there are many situations where a young woman is forced into the abortion by an abusive or controlling family/partner. I think that if you made abortion illegal, those social issues could be addressed. The money the government dumps into convenience killing, they can use for counseling, for safe houses, for support groups for teen mothers or unexpected mothers. If you give a lot of these young women (I know this is not the only population) a supportive place to go, then many of these abortions can be prevented.

 

[iamme]

Iamme

your original post said this at the end:

Are you okay currently supporting a system that can easily (I mean feel no guilt what-so-ever) kill 1.2 million people a year?

Are you okay with a system that is supposedly all about a woman’s health, but does nothing to support her, or her soul? There isn’t much left for many women after an abortion. They get the abortion and if there are no complications are are sent on their way. Many of them go back to an abusive relationship/family. I am not okay with that sort of harm. This is a system that reduces life down to a decision of convenience.

I understand there are many situations where a young woman is forced into the abortion by an abusive or controlling family/partner. I think that if you made abortion illegal, those social issues could be addressed. The money the government dumps into convenience killing, they can use for counseling, for safe houses, for support groups for teen mothers or unexpected mothers. If you give a lot of these young women (I know this is not the only population) a supportive place to go, then many of these abortions can be prevented.

yes, im ok with this system.
the rest of your post has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, and even less to do with physical medicine. it isnt a doctors place to make sure an abused woman doesnt decide to go back to the man who beats her, any more than it is the governments place to try and get the couple into counseling.
i understand what youre trying to say, but it has absolutely nothing to do with what i asked.
its either, yes, youre okay with the potential harm or death to the fetus and woman seeking an illegal abortion, or no, youre not okay with that. i think, that maybe 6 people have actually answered the question.

EDIT: also, the medical association and the government doesnt actually care about yours, or anybody elses soul.

 

[Jennifer123]

i also said it because it was funny…
and jesus had a swimmers bod, so i guess thats kinda sexy.

You are seriously disturbed, and I say that with respect and concern. You are troubled and lashing out at those you feel have hurt you - people of faith.

You are upset about something but yet we have no idea what it could be about. It isn’t about abortion, I am convinced. You are angry but really, deep down, you are fearful. And I am truly sorry about that. I hope you find the healing you desperately need. God Bless you.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

right now, abortion is legal, but it hasnt been legal forever. if you were to have your way, criminalizing abortion once more, what do you think the ramifications would be? remember that “back street” abortions were quite abundant back in the day, and that not only could they result in a botched abortion where the baby survived, but was badly harmed, but that the mothers were often severely injured, or even died due to them. knowing that something being illegal doesnt stop it from happening, are you okay with the harm these women and babies would come to if abortion was outlawed once again?

If abortion were illegal, hundreds of thousands of innocent lives would be saved.

Not enough for you?

 

[iamme]

You are seriously disturbed, and I say that with respect and concern. You are troubled and lashing out at those you feel have hurt you - people of faith.

You are upset about something but yet we have no idea what it could be about. It isn’t about abortion, I am convinced. You are angry but really, deep down, you are fearful. And I am truly sorry about that. I hope you find the healing you desperately need. God Bless you.

1. ive never been angry at people of faith, just people. i dont feel the need to compartmentalize and separate as others seem to do.
2. im not upset about anything, i just dont think like you, i dont censor myself, and dont feel this, i dunno, shame i guess, for thinking the way i do, and it gives me freedom. if anything, its these “people of faith” you talk about who are angry at me, because i have a freedom they cant and wont allow themselves to have.

i dont know if youve noticed, but ive never just come into something with ill intent, or to be mean or stir up the dust. but then, someone will insult my line of thought, or my way of life, and ill retaliate in kind, and im the angry one. its rather hypocritical and funny…

also, the sexy jesus line was from an outstanding movie called hamlet 2. but again, it has the “f” word in it, and doesnt talk down to the viewer, so its probably not your thing.

 

[iamme]

If abortion were illegal, hundreds of thousands of innocent lives would be saved.

Not enough for you?

no, its not.
how can something be innocent if it isnt given the chance to sin?
innocent is having the choice, and choosing not to.

 

[Doc2be]

yes, im ok with this system.
the rest of your post has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, and even less to do with physical medicine. it isnt a doctors place to make sure an abused woman doesnt decide to go back to the man who beats her, any more than it is the governments place to try and get the couple into counseling.

This is what pisses me off. I mean really makes me angry. This whole idea that has crept in and destroyed the true dignity of medicine! It comes from this stupid idea of a treatment based system. You treat the disease and forget about the person, well I am sorry that you have bought into that system and choose to just accept it. I am sorry the next time you get sick and go into the hospital and get treated like a lab rat. I see it everyday, and I refuse to accept it.

Why is it not the doctors job to help the WHOLE person? Why did we all of the sudden have to stop caring about people and just focus on the disease. Frankly, it is because of people like you, who accept the idea of not caring. People who can easily sit back and see the social degradation going on around them and do nothing! I will keep fighting, but really you should think about that sort of a medical system. There are so many stupid laws that people get hurt and die because doctors are not allowed to be true healers anymore. It is sad!

i understand what youre trying to say, but it has absolutely nothing to do with what i asked.
its either, yes, youre okay with the potential harm or death to the fetus and woman seeking an illegal abortion, or no, youre not okay with that. i think, that maybe 6 people have actually answered the question.

If only it were as easy as a simple yes and no. No I am not okay with the harm, but at the same time Yes I am okay with it so that so many murders can be stopped. By just saying that there are all sorts of assumptions that can be made. So, let us see where you run them.

 

[iamme]

This is what pisses me off. I mean really makes me angry. This whole idea that has crept in and destroyed the true dignity of medicine! It comes from this stupid idea of a treatment based system. You treat the disease and forget about the person, well I am sorry that you have bought into that system and choose to just accept it. I am sorry the next time you get sick and go into the hospital and get treated like a lab rat. I see it everyday, and I refuse to accept it.

Why is it not the doctors job to help the WHOLE person? Why did we all of the sudden have to stop caring about people and just focus on the disease. Frankly, it is because of people like you, who accept the idea of not caring. People who can easily sit back and see the social degradation going on around them and do nothing! I will keep fighting, but really you should think about that sort of a medical system. There are so many stupid laws that people get hurt and die because doctors are not allowed to be true healers anymore. It is sad!

its not sad, its good. how much in tune with other faiths are you, that you think you could reasonably help them, with all the faith that youd put into your catholic patients, body and SOUL, or would you choose to only treat catholics? because thats the rub, when it comes to the soul, your biased. your faith is the only logical faith and your god is the only god. so yeah, you treat the disease, not the patient.

If only it were as easy as a simple yes and no. No I am not okay with the harm, but at the same time Yes I am okay with it so that so many murders can be stopped. By just saying that there are all sorts of assumptions that can be made. So, let us see where you run them.

its not running at all. you think the ends justify the means.

 

[Nino]

Thats called a loaded question…are you concerned if the current law was changed etc…first the 50 plus murdered developing babies never will have the chance to read that sentence and reflect on its deep soulfulled caring message…they were dismembered or sucked out by a vacuum! Were there very many abortions before the supremes gave it respectability…I doubt it! Those hysterical ads depicting a women and a coat hanger were as clever as the ones on teevee during the 1964 presidential election depicting a little girl smelling a flower then suddenly an atomic bomb goes off and the words…vote for Barry Goldwater and …this is madison ave at its lowest,catering to ones fears. We were smugly consoled with the concept that abortions on demand will make every child a wanted one…no more abandoned or abused children…well as it???Much like buying products made in a country ruled by dictators,has that helped the common folk there to have a better life…etc…hardly…choice in education is out to that minorities could go to a better school,but for a temporary host to be forced to have that child…maybe give it up to adoption…we have a lovely adopted grand child from Colombia,her mom chose to keep her to full term…what a blessing for all of us to have her…and what an empty spot in the world to not…

 

[Doc2be]

its not sad, its good. how much in tune with other faiths are you, that you think you could reasonably help them, with all the faith that youd put into your catholic patients, body and SOUL, or would you choose to only treat catholics? because thats the rub, when it comes to the soul, your biased. your faith is the only logical faith and your god is the only god. so yeah, you treat the disease, not the patient.

The great thing about being Catholic, I mean truly Catholic, is that you do not see other people as non-believers and believers. I would treat each and every person I see the same way. I do as a medical student working in the free clinic. I see plenty of people of different faiths and no faiths. I guess I just don’t make the decision for birth control as easy as the next guy…I just make the decision for an abortion something to think about rather than something to just do.

But, another great thing about being Catholic is that I have morals in a time when morals are slowly being forced out of the medical profession. Yeah my morals are guided by my faith which does depend on God, but my morals are also based on Natural Law…you know the law that is written into everyone. I don’t need the Bible to tell me that I shouldn’t kill my brother. I don’t need the Bible to know that stealing would cause problems.

See you assume that I think of every other faith as worthless and “not as good” as mine. That is completely wrong. Do I think that God can be found in many different ways, yes. God can be found anywhere and everywhere. I would help an ardent anti-catholic atheist just as I would help the Pope. I would help a non-christian the same as I would help a christian. I am not stuck in some box, without freedom. I, and all those who believe in Christ, are free in ways that your intellectual freedom just can’t allow. I wish you could experience this freedom. The freedom of trust in something other than yourself or your intellect. The freedom to have hope for something better.

The funny thing is that any decision I am guided to make is for the good of the person, guided by my faith. Catholic morals are amazing because at no point do they contradict life. At no point do they sacrifice life for convenience or a tough situation. And I grant that it is not only Catholics who think this way and not even all Catholics think this way.

its not running at all. you think the ends justify the means.

No you think the ends justify the means…killing a baby because it could kill the mother is justified because it could save the mother. The mean (abortion) is justified by the end (saving the mother). So, you put the mother’s life before the baby, more important than the babies. By not allowing abortion you will probably say I put the babies life first…that isn’t true…I just give the baby a chance, I say that baby has rights and one huge one is the right to live. The mother also has that right and she made her decision when she got pregnant…she created life and now has to nurture that life. There should not be a choice there…a human life is a human life.

 

[danaemariejoan]

right now, abortion is legal, but it hasnt been legal forever. if you were to have your way, criminalizing abortion once more, what do you think the ramifications would be? remember that “back street” abortions were quite abundant back in the day, and that not only could they result in a botched abortion where the baby survived, but was badly harmed, but that the mothers were often severely injured, or even died due to them. knowing that something being illegal doesnt stop it from happening, are you okay with the harm these women and babies would come to if abortion was outlawed once again?

That is why I would vote for abortion to be legal. I would not want mothers’ hurt because they tried to have a “backyard abortion.” No matter what, women will still have abortions for various reasons. Last May, one of my close friends got pregnant when she was only 18 and still in high school. However she decided to keep the baby and will be having it soon like this weekend or early next week. Anyway if she had decided to get an abortion and it was illegal, she might have died. I am not agreeing with abortion because I truly hate the thought of destroying something God created for a purpose, but to save lives it should be legal.

 

[iamme]

No you think the ends justify the means…killing a baby because it could kill the mother is justified because it could save the mother. The mean (abortion) is justified by the end (saving the mother). So, you put the mother’s life before the baby, more important than the babies. By not allowing abortion you will probably say I put the babies life first…that isn’t true…I just give the baby a chance, I say that baby has rights and one huge one is the right to live. The mother also has that right and she made her decision when she got pregnant…she created life and now has to nurture that life. There should not be a choice there…a human life is a human life.

id reply specifically, but you fragmented that up to the point that i dont want to mess with it.
ill say, simply, that i dont personally believe youre being honest with yourself, and that i dont believe what you say would be the case.

as for the babys life before the mothers, thats a non-argument. its weighing a life that hasnt happened yet against an existing life. thats all it boils down to, in your scenario, and as a doctor working under the hippocratic oath (tho i dont think your a doctor yet, right?) you would perform the abortion, because you swore to.

 

[elts1956]

thank you for being the only person to actually answer my question.

and roman-catholic, i still have no idea what youre talking about. you didnt answer my question, and my logic cant be flawed because i wasnt making a proposal, or an opinion, i was asking a question.

beltany, i guess those are neat quotes, but i wanted to know what YOU think.
tho i would like to see some references that show there being a billion dollar abortion industry. i know about the medical industry, but billions of dollars in profits for abortion?

Here is proof they don’t kill babies for free nor to help the mother and this is only Planned Parenthood. What about hospitals and other abortion mills?

michellemalkin.com/2008/06/04/planned-parenthoods-obscene-profits/

Planned Parenthood’s obscene profits
By Michelle Malkin • June 4, 2008 08:16 AM
In April, the annual report of Planned Parenthood Federation of America revealed that the abortion giant had a total income of $1.02 billion—with reported profits of nearly $115 million. Taxpayers kick in more than $336 million worth of government grants and contracts at both the state and federal levels. That’s a third of Planned Parenthood’s budget

Yes killing babies is so lucrative. But moral? Absolutely not.

Iamme I do hope you get your thought processes in order soon.

 

[Beltany13]

You are seriously disturbed, and I say that with respect and concern. You are troubled and lashing out at those you feel have hurt you - people of faith.

You are upset about something but yet we have no idea what it could be about. It isn’t about abortion, I am convinced. You are angry but really, deep down, you are fearful. And I am truly sorry about that. I hope you find the healing you desperately need. God Bless you.

No, he’s just plain evil. Read some of his posts in another abortion thread. He’s evil. Crazy doesn’t explain everything.

This person is either an idiot of the highest order, or he’s evil. And because I don’t believe any one person can be that idiotic, he must be evil.

And I’m quite serious.

 

[iamme]

No, he’s just plain evil. Read some of his posts in another abortion thread. He’s evil. Crazy doesn’t explain everything.

This person is either an idiot of the highest order, or he’s evil. And because I don’t believe any one person can be that idiotic, he must be evil.

And I’m quite serious.

im evil? i didnt have premarital sex and get a woman pregnant, forcing her to have an abortion, did i?
no, that was you! youre the baby killer in this instance, arent you?

 

[kage_ar]

No, he’s just plain evil. Read some of his posts in another abortion thread. He’s evil. Crazy doesn’t explain everything.

This person is either an idiot of the highest order, or he’s evil. And because I don’t believe any one person can be that idiotic, he must be evil.

And I’m quite serious.

Bethany, join me in a Rosary for peace for this sad, angry person.

 

[Beltany13]

im evil? i didnt have premarital sex and get a woman pregnant, forcing her to have an abortion, did i?
no, that was you! youre the baby killer in this instance, arent you?

First of all, I don’t believe a person having premarital sex means they’re evil. They’ve committed a sin, sure. But I don’t believe that act alone makes them an evil person.

Secondly, I didn’t force her to have an abortion. If you recall my story, she and I agreed to HAVE THE CHILD. It was her parents who had other ideas. She lied to me, obtained an abortion, and the rest is history.

So, you were saying?

 

[Doc2be]

id reply specifically, but you fragmented that up to the point that i dont want to mess with it.
ill say, simply, that i dont personally believe youre being honest with yourself, and that i dont believe what you say would be the case.

as for the babys life before the mothers, thats a non-argument. its weighing a life that hasnt happened yet against an existing life. thats all it boils down to, in your scenario, and as a doctor working under the hippocratic oath (tho i dont think your a doctor yet, right?) you would perform the abortion, because you swore to.

So what part about a baby that undergoes every single biological process that you do makes it not alive? So, something is not alive until it is born? I mean we don’t even have to touch souls here…it just plain has no life since it is still in the womb. So something magical happens/changes when the child is born? Please explain…

No I am not a doctor yet. If you look at the hippocratic oath you will see that it involves both Non-maleficence and Beneficence. Do no harm and Do Good (simply). The thing about abortion is that it does quite a bit of harm to a PERSON. So, no I would not perform an abortion and no I would not refer onto an abortionist. I have said this to classmates and have argued for years now in undergrad and now graduate school. So trust me I am not lying to myself or you. If someone wants an abortion so bad they can go to another doctor and no I would not feel bad about not performing an abortion. I would gladly get fired and loose my license to practice medicine before I performed an abortion. Some things are bigger than this life.

 

[maggiemay2u]

Bethany, join me in a Rosary for peace for this sad, angry person.

I started praying for this angry young person a few days ago. I pray for guidance and spiritual awakening and the power of the Holy Spirit to comfort and guide her in troubled life.