A question for the men regarding porn

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so it’s not just my husband – men just do what they want because they want to and the feelings of their wives, the rightness or wrongness of their actions, the consequences of their actions don’t mean a thing to them at all. i feel like God must hate women to make us love men who are programmed to not care about us.
Men are imperfect, men who view pornography are imperfect. Women are imperfect, women who view pornography are imperfect. I don’t know of any spouses who have never hurt the other. Your husband’s actions are wrong, but so is your attitude. I don’t know your situation, but it is very possible that a man both cares deeply about his wife and views pornography. He shouldn’t view the pornography, but that in and of itself doesn’t mean he doesn’t care about his wife.
 
the rest of his actions and the words from his mouth show that he has no concern for choosing to do anything but what gives selfish pleasure to himself.
if married men hang porn in the garage, that is choosing to do very hurtful selfish things, showing they don’t care. what’s wrong about my attitude?

i feel like men go around ‘getting theirs’ by looking and lusting at women and justifying it (like my husband does) by saying ‘it’s women’s fault – what can you expect if you have breasts? how can i not lust if you have bottoms? how can i not lust if you are young and slender, attractive in any way? why shouldn’t i get my sexual buzz from all women?’ i feel sometimes like God is a pet owner with a cemented back yard with tall cement walls, where he keeps his pet mice (the women) and his snakes (the men) – there seems to be no escape from the lustful eyes of men. i dress modestly, but that is not enough to stop the leering. i know it is not all men, i know i shouldn’t feel this way, but seriously – i would love to make it a whole day without some man looking to see what he can get.
 
the rest of his actions and the words from his mouth show that he has no concern for choosing to do anything but what gives selfish pleasure to himself.
if married men hang porn in the garage, that is choosing to do very hurtful selfish things, showing they don’t care. what’s wrong about my attitude?
The fact that men hang porn in the garrage isn’t reason to conclude anything other than that they hung some porn in the garrage. Maybe he didn’t know it was hurtful, maybe lots of things. If the rest of his actions show that he just doesn’t care, then maybe he doesn’t.🤷
i feel like men go around ‘getting theirs’ by looking and lusting at women and justifying it (like my husband does) by saying ‘it’s women’s fault – what can you expect if you have breasts? how can i not lust if you have bottoms? how can i not lust if you are young and slender, attractive in any way? why shouldn’t i get my sexual buzz from all women?’ i feel sometimes like God is a pet owner with a cemented back yard with tall cement walls, where he keeps his pet mice (the women) and his snakes (the men) – there seems to be no escape from the lustful eyes of men. i dress modestly, but that is not enough to stop the leering. i know it is not all men, i know i shouldn’t feel this way, but seriously – i would love to make it a whole day without some man looking to see what he can get.
I’m sorry. I’ve felt trapped by God myself. I know it isn’t right, but I also know it’s no fun. I’ll be praying for you.
 
Sounds to me like there are numerous other issues going on besides porn… and who hangs porn in their garage? Never heard of that! Or do you mean something like the Farah poster from the 70s… I guess technically that is porn (since it makes you lust) but that’s something more a teenage boy has on his wall, not a man in his garage… I don’t think that’s the message I would want to send to my sons…
 
Porn is any image or story or art whose purpose is to elicit lust. This includes, for example, the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue - not just really gross stuff like Hustler. Porn is objectively evil.

I would be hurt by my wife’s use of porn, not only because the object of her intentional sexual desire would not be me (i.e., adulterous), but also because I would feel like I had failed to care for her sexually (and I mean that in a truly loving way, not in a prurient way).

However, far outweighting that hurt would be my desire to help her fight that sin so that she could get to Heaven. 🙂
 
Neither. We hang them up for the few seconds of selfish pleasure that it gives us. That’s all. I don’t have any because it would offend my wife. Life is one continuous battle to place others ahead of self. Then, it’s nice and romantic when others return the favor when they place you ahead of themselves.
To ManOnFire and micahmike,

You two seem like nice guys which is why I suspect you answered that way. But I am talking about not nice men when I asked that question. I was at a neighbours once. He was channel surfing and stopped at the channel where seductive woman were in bikinis. I know in the bottom of my heart he was doing it because he knew it hurt me. Which leads me to think some men get a chuckle when woman complain about porn

CM
 
Ms. CMSCMS,
No disrespect intended, but some women are much more sensitive than others about their men leering at women or pictures of other women. I wouldn’t dream of hanging a girlie picture in my garage, personally; (my garage is so full of old car parts, tools and rusty junk that I don’t even know where I’d hang it.) because I wouldn’t like the “reputation” such a picture might broadcast to anyone who might visit my “stable.” I think the vast majority of men who actually do have a girlie calendar or suggestive picture hanging on a wall somewhere don’t have it there to hurt anyone’s feelings; they simply have it there because they like the view of a pretty female.

In conversation one time with a friend of mine, he remarked at the sight of a comely young lady who walked past us; my wife asked his wife about my friend’s remark, and my friend’s wife said "As long as he keeps looking at girls, it’s fine with me; when he quits eyeballing the girls is when I’ll get worried."

Just another viewpoint on the topic…

Regards,
Ponyguy
 
i just don’t understand why guys think it is ok to keep looking at the menu once they have ordered – it is plain hurtful making wives think they are not good enough and the men are still out there fishing while their catch is swimming in a little bucket at their side, slowly dying as the man keeps searching for bigger, better ones, the ones that got away. once you select one, work at making your commitment total to each other, reaching highs you will never reach otherwise.
 
i just don’t understand why guys think it is ok to keep looking at the menu once they have ordered – it is plain hurtful making wives think they are not good enough and the men are still out there fishing while their catch is swimming in a little bucket at their side, slowly dying as the man keeps searching for bigger, better ones, the ones that got away. once you select one, work at making your commitment total to each other, reaching highs you will never reach otherwise.
You can’t expect men not to notice an attractive woman. Period. It’s built into our genetics to notice and maybe even think about how she’s attractive for a few moments. That’s not sinful, that’s just an automatic reaction. It becomes wrong once he starts having serious fantasies or is leering or something of that nature.

I get that you’ve been hurt and yes, pornography or excessive dwelling on a thought or picture is wrong. So your husband has it only half-right, same as you. You can’t expect a man to not notice a gorgeous woman, regardless of his marital status. You can and should expect him, however, to not take it any farther than that automatic glance and fleeting, uncontrolled thought.

As for your attitude towards men overall, obviously it’s been poisoned by your husband’s wrong actions if indeed he’s watching porn, fantasizing and putting up lewd pictures in the garage. But while all men will notice a good-looking girl and maybe have a very, very mild automatic sexual thought moreso than a woman would in the case of seeing a good-looking man, not all of us dwell on those thoughts all the time.
 
i just don’t understand why guys think it is ok to keep looking at the menu once they have ordered – it is plain hurtful making wives think they are not good enough and the men are still out there fishing while their catch is swimming in a little bucket at their side, slowly dying as the man keeps searching for bigger, better ones, the ones that got away. once you select one, work at making your commitment total to each other, reaching highs you will never reach otherwise.
Im a man and I agree with you totally. I might be in the minority though. All my guy friends constantly tell me who they’d love to “bang” and they are all in “committed” relationships (though you may notice the bunny ears arent there for nothing, committed only if committed means ‘we sleep together’). My own ex secular girlfriend thought I was strange because I never commented on other women whilst with her. And it sounds corny but all I can say is I really didn’t notice anybody else 🤷

But it goes both ways. Women also love to stare and make comments, we are just as guilty as each other except men are stereotyped about it AND probably more open about it. 🙂
 
You can’t expect men not to notice an attractive woman. Period. It’s built into our genetics to notice and maybe even think about how she’s attractive for a few moments. That’s not sinful, that’s just an automatic reaction. It becomes wrong once he starts having serious fantasies or is leering or something of that nature.

I get that you’ve been hurt and yes, pornography or excessive dwelling on a thought or picture is wrong. So your husband has it only half-right, same as you. You can’t expect a man to not notice a gorgeous woman, regardless of his marital status. You can and should expect him, however, to not take it any farther than that automatic glance and fleeting, uncontrolled thought.

As for your attitude towards men overall, obviously it’s been poisoned by your husband’s wrong actions if indeed he’s watching porn, fantasizing and putting up lewd pictures in the garage. But while all men will notice a good-looking girl and maybe have a very, very mild automatic sexual thought moreso than a woman would in the case of seeing a good-looking man, not all of us dwell on those thoughts all the time.
Man, you are on a roll. 👍

Most normal, warm blooded people (men and women), appreciate a good looking person.

However, it only becomes sinful when we willing dwell on these thoughts.
 
i have not looked at other man, not noticed one, from the moment i thought my future husband might be the one, right thru now. looking at another man, tho i was just as guilty as other young women at the time before committing to my one and only, is to me like asking how much he makes at his job, how many times a week he and his wife have sex, how his hugs and kisses feel – totally none of my business or right to think about or consider. that was my commitment, my vow, one of my actions of love.
 
The very thought of being offended by my wife finding another man physically atrractive is strange to me. Why on earth would I be bothered by that? Heck, I am very heterosexual, but even I notice attractive men for what they are. A fit body and a handsome face should be admired and appreciated for what it is. It shouldn’t be lusted after. Not all glances, or even exclamations of “wow, he or she is beautiful!” are lust. I KNOW that I don’t look like Johnny Depp. I know that my wife likes the way Johnny Depp looks. I know that my wife loves me and would not leave me for Johnny Depp.

I think Christy Brinkley is pretty. Even though she’s a mother, even though she’s likely 20 years my senior, she’s very atractive. She was created physically beautiful and she has maintained her beauty in a way that few do. There is nothing wrong with appreciating that and even enjoying looking at her because of it. I do not want to have sex with her. I don’t think about having sex with her. I don’t desire her. I enjoy (briefly) looking at her. There is no sin in that. I enjoy her beauty. I enjoy Peyton Manning’s athlectic prowess. I enjoy Bill Gates’ savvy and I enjoy(ed) Edward Teller’s brain. My appretiation of the attributes of others is not in any way interfering with the appretiation I have for my wife.

Somewhat off but kind of on topic -
Only 20 years ago, you couldn't (or wouldn't have expected to) enter a serivice station or home garage (garage of the "home shop" variety, not just the hole where the suburban man parks his Volvo and his lawnmower, heh) without seeing topless calendars on the wall. These were given out by the toolcompanies and they were standard garage fair. Now, you don't see that very often anymore. Why not? Because contrary to some alarmists, our society is actully becoming LESS tolerant of that sort of thing. while the availability of pornography has increased, the public display of it is tolerated less.
 
i have not looked at other man, not noticed one, from the moment i thought my future husband might be the one, right thru now. looking at another man, tho i was just as guilty as other young women at the time before committing to my one and only, is to me like asking how much he makes at his job, how many times a week he and his wife have sex, how his hugs and kisses feel – totally none of my business or right to think about or consider. that was my commitment, my vow, one of my actions of love.
I’m sorry, but that’s a bridge too far for me. When you got married you just shut your natural sexual responses down? Or do you just simply avoid any and all other men in your day to day life?

It’s not about avoiding looking at members of the opposite sex or interacting with them or even finding them attractive. It’s about staying chaste to your spouse. Look, I’m not going to deny the fact that like most men I’ve had struggles with impurity. I was fortunate enough to marry a virgin as a virgin myself. Back when we were just dating, my wife was actually my first passionate kiss. But that didn’t make me pure as I should have been. I’m not going to brush off my past or even present sins in this department as nothing because they are definitely issues. But what your saying, again, is a bridge way too far.

It’s fine for a man to look at an attractive woman. I’d even go so far as to say that if his first response is “whoa, I’d like to…” that’s probably fine too. It’s when that thought crosses your head, do you indulge it or do you say “ok now brother, yeah she’s attractive but your wife is beautiful, the love of your life and let’s not get carried away here.” The former is sinful, the latter is successfully dodging the near occasion of sin. As a general rule, men have a more powerful sex drive than women in that it’s flipped to the “ON” position all the time and our first subconscious response to an attractive woman is to consider her sexually. We can’t control that. What we can do is control that first response and temper our baser desires instead of letting them control us.
 
when i committed to my husband, yes, i turned the looking switch off – men became just people, not bodies at all. the looking was over, the loving was begun. i made a choice – to stop, to treat all people as the soul of that person, not in a corny everything has to be about God and religion and spirituality, but just as the true person, not the body – it certainly can be done, it certainly is not a bridge too far, it certainly is not what my husband has done – his looks are sexual, whatever he can get, looking for his next fix type of looks – he doesn’t think of anyone really just what they can do for his buzz. and there are many men like that – and they all excuse it saying it is natural and therefore not something they should try to stop or fight or think about as a betrayal of their vows. i look at chocolate and desire it – very strongly!!! i have an allergic reaction to it but also that allergy has an an almost drug addiction quality to it – like a smoker needing his next smoke. well – i fight it, i don’t buy more than a little at a time and never hide a stash of it to not let people know about my dirty little secret nor do i boldly eat chocolate whenever and wherever i can get it or take it. it is hard, but it would be wrong to indulge in my desire and craving and ‘need’ of it because it would be bad for me, lead to health problems or crabbiness to those i love. looking at others with desire or lust or sexual interest to me is like my chocolate addiction – realize the problem, decide how to fight it, don’t hide and indulge or brazenly indulge, and know the right thing to do and do it. if your looking is really clean and not craven, you know. if you like to make excuses and don’t want to hear your behavior is wrong, make sure of what you are doing and maybe finetone your path. my husband is totally addicted to the buzz of looking and getting – how did he get that way? by looking and not caring to think or fight or care about others.
 
So he’s telling you flat out “yes, I’m fantasizing about having sex with other women and you should just deal with that” or are you assuming?
 
It’s fine for a man to look at an attractive woman. I’d even go so far as to say that if his first response is “whoa, I’d like to…” that’s probably fine too. It’s when that thought crosses your head, do you indulge it or do you say “ok now brother, yeah she’s attractive but your wife is beautiful, the love of your life and let’s not get carried away here.” The former is sinful, the latter is successfully dodging the near occasion of sin. As a general rule, men have a more powerful sex drive than women in that it’s flipped to the “ON” position all the time and our first subconscious response to an attractive woman is to consider her sexually. We can’t control that. What we can do is control that first response and temper our baser desires instead of letting them control us.
Text in bold = bridge way too far in my humble opinion as a man. I was internally agreeing with your posts up to a point, and that was the one that did it for me. That first response is not okay at all. Imagine telling his wife that? "Hey, honey, that very attractive woman over there well I would like to XYZ her and then ABC her too, whadd’ya think bout that huh, and remember you can’t get angry cos I am swtiched to the ON switch all the time!’

I don’t buy it. And I don’t buy trying to re-route occasions of sin. If you see an attractive women, objectively say [and this I agree is unavoidable as a warm blooded man] yes she is attractive, but subjectively there should be nothing more to it. Your ON switch should be turned on to your wife.

Its kinda like… as a crude example. if you have committed to dieting your whole life. Sure, you look at the chocolate and say “Yeah, tasty” but there is nothing more to it. There is nothing over and above it. At least there shouldn’t be, because thats when you either a)torture yourself in the whole dieting process or b) cheat on your diet. And if a diet is done correctly the original choice to not eat chocolate or look at it as a pleasurable treat becomes automatic.

Except marriage is way better than the above, more in depth. For marriage, unlike a diet, you are excited when you enter into it. It’s almost like “wow I’m getting exactly what I want” instead of restricting yourself. So you automatically should have no need to look at other women sexually. Sure, you can appreciate them and process that she is pretty, because as you say that is an objective [for simplification purposes objective, I realise that some may say ah but beauty is subjective but you understand my line of thought] and unconscious processing of visual stimuli. But anything more than that I believe just is an occasion of sin via lust or covetting your neighbours wife.

Which is where the problem lies. Because if we were all just going around saying “Oh that lady is pretty” I am sure there would be no problem. Your wife would be the one that you pay all your sexual attention to. It might maybe be a bit idealist and not in line with experience but hey sometimes we need to put into effect that we are in this world but not of it.
 
exactly, news!!!

and yes, my husband admits that he is looking to sex the sexual parts, not the beauty, get the buzz, not ok admiration.
 
C’mon, maybe a dose of reality is needed here. It’s extremely rare for women to look at porn. It’s a very tiny percentage. Secondly, some women are saying well I never look at a man in that way. You don’t say. Fact is that’s not how women look at men, ever. They are simply not as visual. So comparing men and women like they’re the same is ludicrous.
 
And what’s up with this discussion about “noticing how attractive a woman is”. Why are we splitting hairs on this. Why are men theoretically going around rating the women that they see. “oh she’s attractive” “she’s not so much”, etc. maybe we should move away from this model of thinking altogether. too much “how far can we go”. a woman is a human being, try seeing her as such, then you wouldn’t have to go into this whole minute conversation about “how long” you thought about her attractiveness.
 
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