A question for those Protestants who dislike the Catholic faith.

[wmscott]

A question for my Protestant brothers and sisters. IMHO there are basically four types of Protestant folks who come to CAF.

1. Protestants who are researching the Catholic faith for possible conversion. Peace of Christ be with you.
2. Protestants, although not of a mind to convert and secure in their faith, who are here to learn about Catholicism for their own edification. They also defend the truth no matter which side of the street it falls. They do not always agree nor have to, however they are always respectful and full of Christian charity. They desire the truth and are intellectually honest. To you I say thank you brother or sister, Peace of Christ be with you.
3. Then there some Protestants who have such a visceral loathing for Catholicism that they will come here and without any research other than from a Jack Chick comic book or some other off the wall, left field anti Catholic site, and start to cut and paste accusations. When confronted with the truth they will evade the response, bob and weave only to spout more of the same venom, change the subject or disappear all together only to appear on another thread somewhere else. Their contempt and disdain is open and unchecked. These are the folks I want to ask a question or two of: Is this really your best at being intellectually honest? You claim to be a Christian, is this the best Christian charity you can put forward? I know the answers that most of you will say, I have been there, done that, even got my tee shirt. Then I learned to swim, and the Tiber is not really all that wide. Therefore, to you I say Peace of Christ be with you.
4. Finally, there are some Protestants who fall in between two and three to varying degrees. Peace of Christ be with you also.

 

[AmericanJosiah]

A question for my Protestant brothers and sisters. IMHO there are basically four types of Protestant folks who come to CAF.

1. Protestants who are researching the Catholic faith for possible conversion. Peace of Christ be with you.
2. Protestants, although not of a mind to convert and secure in their faith, who are here to learn about Catholicism for their own edification. They also defend the truth no matter which side of the street it falls. They do not always agree nor have to, however they are always respectful and full of Christian charity. They desire the truth and are intellectually honest. To you I say thank you brother or sister, Peace of Christ be with you.
3. Then there some Protestants who have such a visceral loathing for Catholicism that they will come here and without any research other than from a Jack Chick comic book or some other off the wall, left field anti Catholic site, and start to cut and paste accusations. When confronted with the truth they will evade the response, bob and weave only to spout more of the same venom, change the subject or disappear all together only to appear on another thread somewhere else. Their contempt and disdain is open and unchecked. These are the folks I want to ask a question or two of: Is this really your best at being intellectually honest? You claim to be a Christian, is this the best Christian charity you can put forward? I know the answers that most of you will say, I have been there, done that, even got my tee shirt. Then I learned to swim, and the Tiber is not really all that wide. Therefore, to you I say Peace of Christ be with you.
4. Finally, there are some Protestants who fall in between two and three to varying degrees. Peace of Christ be with you also.

1. I’m here for conversation. I have no desire (or need) to convert any here, since my theology is that we are all EQUAL, FULL, UNSEPARATED brothers and sisters in Christ. We have a FEW things we disagree about (such as always been the case among Christians) but that does not impact that we are one, holy and catholic. It does not impact that we are all equally a part of the communion of saints.
2. I regard myself VERY much as potentially wrong and accountable. I converted FROM Catholicism so obviously, I think I can be wrong. It could happen again. IMHO, truth matters whereas my ego does not - thus, I’d rather truth prevails rather than me. So, I’m eager to learn. But I don’t accept everything “with docility” simply because the sole one saying such demands such - and I certainly don’t ask (or want!!!) anyone to so regard me. This is about truth, not ego; accountability, not exemptions for self alone. I hope to learn, and if I can return the favor - that’s good. I’m here to grow - and that MANDATES that we all regard ourselves as potentially wrong or ignorant. Any person or denomination that regards itself as infallible cannot learn or grow.
3. I’ve been a part of interdenominational discussions since I was 11 years old. I’ve been Catholic and I’ve been Protestant - so I’ve been on both “sides” of those discussions. One of the things (just one) that has been made abundantly clear to me is that misconceptions (and down right strawmen) abound on each “side.” Many of them are centuries old. They get perpetuated - on and on and on - because each “side” only listens to itself, assuming it knows the other “side” better than the other “side” does. I guess that’s not TOO surprising, but what is disturbing is the tendency to continue to embrace and perpetuate the falsehood IN FULL KNOWLEDGE that it is false. Strawmen seem to serve some “purpose” which I think greatly saddens the Lord of the Church who honors and who is the Truth. This is the first time in my life I’ve been active at a “one side” website (Protestant or Catholic - this one obviously Catholic), always preferring ecumencial sites. But ONE of my purposes here is to correct misunderstandings of Protestantism (at least my form of such) and to share a Protestant perspective. I expect (and desire) no “conversions” but if some Truth can prevail over falsehood and misconceptions - that would be good, don’t you agree?

Here’s my PROTESTANT opinion about The Catholic Church:

I regard The Catholic Church as a valid, good and very much esteemed denomination. I regard its ministries, ministers and Sacraments as valid. I regard nothing it officially teaches to be heretical in the sense of being clearly contrary to Scripture and Tradition (indeed, I agree with it perhaps 95% of the time). I regard all believers in it to be my full, equal, unseparated brothers and sisters in Christ and members of the communion of saints, the union of all believers. I pray daily for God’s richest, fullest blessings to its ministers, ministries and Holy Father.

Now, my view is, if a Catholic will say the same about my organization (The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod), then we are equals in this regard. If they will say MORE about mine, then they are less “anti” than I am. Contrary, then I am less “anti” than they are.

Thank you!

Pax

• Josiah

.

 

[wmscott]

1. I’m here for conversation. I have no desire (or need) to convert any here, since my theology is that we are all EQUAL, FULL, UNSEPARATED brothers and sisters in Christ. We have a FEW things we disagree about (such as always been the case among Christians) but that does not impact that we are one, holy and catholic. It does not impact that we are all equally a part of the communion of saints.
2. I regard myself VERY much as potentially wrong and accountable. I converted FROM Catholicism so obviously, I think I can be wrong. It could happen again. IMHO, truth matters whereas my ego does not - thus, I’d rather truth prevails rather than me. So, I’m eager to learn. But I don’t accept everything “with docility” simply because the sole one saying such demands such - and I certainly don’t ask (or want!!!) anyone to so regard me. This is about truth, not ego; accountability, not exemptions for self alone. I hope to learn, and if I can return the favor - that’s good. I’m here to grow - and that MANDATES that we all regard ourselves as potentially wrong or ignorant. Any person or denomination that regards itself as infallible cannot learn or grow.
3. I’ve been a part of interdenominational discussions since I was 11 years old. I’ve been Catholic and I’ve been Protestant - so I’ve been on both “sides” of those discussions. One of the things (just one) that has been made abundantly clear to me is that misconceptions (and down right strawmen) abound on each “side.” Many of them are centuries old. They get perpetuated - on and on and on - because each “side” only listens to itself, assuming it knows the other “side” better than the other “side” does. I guess that’s not TOO surprising, but what is disturbing is the tendency to continue to embrace and perpetuate the falsehood IN FULL KNOWLEDGE that it is false. Strawmen seem to serve some “purpose” which I think greatly saddens the Lord of the Church who honors and who is the Truth. This is the first time in my life I’ve been active at a “one side” website (Protestant or Catholic - this one obviously Catholic), always preferring ecumencial sites. But ONE of my purposes here is to correct misunderstandings of Protestantism (at least my form of such) and to share a Protestant perspective. I expect (and desire) no “conversions” but if some Truth can prevail over falsehood and misconceptions - that would be good, don’t you agree?

Here’s my PROTESTANT opinion about The Catholic Church:

I regard The Catholic Church as a valid, good and very much esteemed denomination. I regard its ministries, ministers and Sacraments as valid. I regard nothing it officially teaches to be heretical in the sense of being clearly contrary to Scripture and Tradition (indeed, I agree with it perhaps 95% of the time). I regard all believers in it to be my full, equal, unseparated brothers and sisters in Christ and members of the communion of saints, the union of all believers. I pray daily for God’s richest, fullest blessings to its ministers, ministries and Holy Father.

Now, my view is, if a Catholic will say the same about my organization (The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod), then we are equals in this regard. If they will say MORE about mine, then they are less “anti” than I am. Contrary, then I am less “anti” than they are.

Thank you!

Pax

• Josiah

.

Thanks AJ that was quick. As for me, I hold that my Protestant brothers and sisters who profess in the Nicene Creed are in Christ just as I am. It is unfortunate that there are divisions among us. As a side note, I used to be one from the number three group before I converted. Peace be with you.

 

[4Squarebaby]

I don’t know if I am alone but I came as a man entering what the majority here would call a “mixed” marriage and my wife can best be described as a cradle and cafeteria Catholic if I understand the slang correctly.

 

[wmscott]

I don’t know if I am alone but I came as a man entering what the majority here would call a “mixed” marriage and my wife can best be described as a cradle and cafeteria Catholic if I understand the slang correctly.

You had better watch out for them Catholic girls, that’s how I got hooked

Seriously though, as I have become a little older and wiser there are many things I regret. One of those is persecuting Christ’s Church. By doing so I was promoting division rather than unity with Christ. Peace be with you.

 

[KathleenGee]

hee hee hee about the Catholic girls…

This is the REAL issue I have about Catholics and Protestants…we are a divided faith…united we stand…divided America falls!

The Catholics need the expression of Faith of the Protestants…and even the Mormons…however far in many things…have many great things to contribute…so the Catholics…you read about the dullness, etc…that is because WE are Lacking YOU!!

John Paul II said to let go of your culture and hold on to only the best…Same with ecclesial differences…we were called to be at the same banquet table…

Let us be one!

 

[Javl]

In my many discussions with Protestants of different denominations, I find that most of them have been mis-informed about Catholicism and Catholic beliefs. Most are very receptive to explanations and understand. These, then, no longer have any animosity toward Catholicism and are truly interested in a fruitful dialogue. I have found a great majority of these Protestants here on these forums.

On the other hand, there are those that are adamant in their anti-Catholic diatribes and refuse to listen or understand. These, thank God, are few in number, but they usually do the most damage and turn the most heads. Even some of their fellow Protestants, when trying to explain, are subject to vitriolic attacks and diatribes and are called traitors, papists, and other deragatory names. It is these few that we should all pray to the Holy Spirit for Him to give them understanding.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[wmscott]

In my many discussions with Protestants of different denominations, I find that most of them have been mis-informed about Catholicism and Catholic beliefs. Most are very receptive to explanations and understand. These, then, no longer have any animosity toward Catholicism and are truly interested in a fruitful dialogue. I have found a great majority of these Protestants here on these forums.

On the other hand, there are those that are adamant in their anti-Catholic diatribes and refuse to listen or understand. These, thank God, are few in number, but they usually do the most damage and turn the most heads. Even some of their fellow Protestants, when trying to explain, are subject to vitriolic attacks and diatribes and are called traitors, papists, and other deragatory names. It is these few that we should all pray to the Holy Spirit for Him to give them understanding.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

I agree with your second paragraph, this why I asked is this really their best at being intellectually honest, and claiming to be a Christian, is this their best Christian charity that they can put forward. What saddens, frustrates, and offends me is when provided with what is fact and what is fiction, they ramp it up even more. It is not about the truth any more it is just out right mean spirited. Where is the Christian love in that.

There are those, and I will point out one of our Lutheran brothers, JonNC, who I have seen defend the truth even if it was in the Catholics favor. It is to the point now that I really do not want to converse with folks who remain obstinate to the truth. I will put it out there one time, and if it falls on deaf ears I move on.

I totally agree that they need our prayers.

 

[EmergencyOps]

I don’t know if I am alone but I came as a man entering what the majority here would call a “mixed” marriage and my wife can best be described as a cradle and cafeteria Catholic if I understand the slang correctly.

Same here. And yes, those Catholic girls will get ya. Mine is a cradle cafeteria Catholic. I am considering conversion (went through half of RCIA a few years ago), but I’m still hesitant. At the least, I help teach my wife what she is supposed to believe using Catholic Answers, CCC, and other sources.

 

[Javl]

Same here. And yes, those Catholic girls will get ya. Mine is a cradle cafeteria Catholic. I am considering conversion (went through half of RCIA a few years ago), but I’m still hesitant. At the least, I help teach my wife what she is supposed to believe using Catholic Answers, CCC, and other sources.

Good for you! But, remember, to be considered a Catholic you can’t pick and choose what you want to believe or accept. It’s all, or nothing. God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Jon_Hus]

Does this thread have a mission statement? What exactly is the purpose of this discussion? What is the expected end result?

 

[Zooey]

Does this thread have a mission statement? What exactly is the purpose of this discussion? What is the expected end result?

Understanding, I should think.

 

[Teneas]

Same here. And yes, those Catholic girls will get ya. Mine is a cradle cafeteria Catholic. I am considering conversion (went through half of RCIA a few years ago), but I’m still hesitant. At the least, I help teach my wife what she is supposed to believe using Catholic Answers, CCC, and other sources.

I wish you peace along your journey, and wish to give you a big for teaching your wife what she should know as a Catholic.

 

[AmateurPianist]

A question for my Protestant brothers and sisters. IMHO there are basically four types of Protestant folks who come to CAF.

1. Protestants who are researching the Catholic faith for possible conversion. Peace of Christ be with you.
2. Protestants, although not of a mind to convert and secure in their faith, who are here to learn about Catholicism for their own edification. They also defend the truth no matter which side of the street it falls. They do not always agree nor have to, however they are always respectful and full of Christian charity. They desire the truth and are intellectually honest. To you I say thank you brother or sister, Peace of Christ be with you.
3. Then there some Protestants who have such a visceral loathing for Catholicism that they will come here and without any research other than from a Jack Chick comic book or some other off the wall, left field anti Catholic site, and start to cut and paste accusations. When confronted with the truth they will evade the response, bob and weave only to spout more of the same venom, change the subject or disappear all together only to appear on another thread somewhere else. Their contempt and disdain is open and unchecked. These are the folks I want to ask a question or two of: Is this really your best at being intellectually honest? You claim to be a Christian, is this the best Christian charity you can put forward? I know the answers that most of you will say, I have been there, done that, even got my tee shirt. Then I learned to swim, and the Tiber is not really all that wide. Therefore, to you I say Peace of Christ be with you.
4. Finally, there are some Protestants who fall in between two and three to varying degrees. Peace of Christ be with you also.

A few years back I was probably a 4. I don’t think I was ever a 3. Now I consider myself a 2, although it would be better if that evaluation were left to others.

I just don’t consider it my place to judge other Christian faiths that are not mine. Plus I: think of logs and specks.

I would be a 1 if I were convinced that the Catholic church is exclusively the church of Jesus Christ and that a superior–>inferior relationship exists between the Catholic organization and all remaining organization. Then all other disagreements would fall into place.

 

[wmscott]

Does this thread have a mission statement? What exactly is the purpose of this discussion? What is the expected end result?

Jon, In my original post, I stated I wanted to ask a question of my Protestant brothers and sisters. I prefaced it by breaking out the four groups of Protestants that come here (just my opinion). In group three, I asked the following two questions “Is this really your best at being intellectually honest? You claim to be a Christian, is this the best Christian charity you can put forward?

As far as a mission statement not sure except to say that I used to be one of the ones who led a life of false understandings of the Catholic faith. I used to believe that all good Catholics were going to hell. I perpetuated these falsehoods, thus persecuting the body of Christ, the Catholic Church.

The purpose… Zooey kind of summed it up, Understanding along with gentle discussion in a Christian light.

The expected results, well the two questions I asked are probably more of rhetorical in nature with the hopes of a little self-examination. Hopefully when in discussion among Christians of all denominations, we can reflect on the two questions, and then proceed with temperance and kindness. We don’t all have to agree with each other’s theologies, however we can respect each other’s right to believe and worship the way they choose.

Peace of Christ be with you.

 

[wmscott]

Same here. And yes, those Catholic girls will get ya. Mine is a cradle cafeteria Catholic. I am considering conversion (went through half of RCIA a few years ago), but I’m still hesitant. At the least, I help teach my wife what she is supposed to believe using Catholic Answers, CCC, and other sources.

Hi EmergencyOps, good to see you are still here, peace and good luck as you continue on your faith journey.

 

[wmscott]

A few years back I was probably a 4. I don’t think I was ever a 3. Now I consider myself a 2, although it would be better if that evaluation were left to others.

I just don’t consider it my place to judge other Christian faiths that are not mine. Plus I: think of logs and specks.

I would be a 1 if I were convinced that the Catholic church is exclusively the church of Jesus Christ and that a superior–>inferior relationship exists between the Catholic organization and all remaining organization. Then all other disagreements would fall into place.

Hi AmateurPianist, I think that when I started here as a Catholic I was probably a four also. I have been working hard to be a two also. I have to check myself often so that I stay there.
As far as being a one, just continue to pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit. If this is where he wants leads you, then all other disagreements will vanish.

 

[Javl]

Originaly posted by Amateur Pianist
I would be a 1 if I were convinced that the Catholic church is exclusively the church of Jesus Christ and that a superior–>inferior relationship exists between the Catholic organization and all remaining organization. Then all other disagreements would fall into place.

Without proselytizing or trying to convert you, I suggest you get a copy of the “Catechism of the Catholic Church”. It has an explanation and reason of/for everything taught by and believed by Catholics ( Roman ) of the Western Church. The Eastern Churches in communion with Rome also have their own catechism with the same beliefs. I would also suggest reading up on the history of the Church from the early Fathers down to the present. Doing this should answer all your questions. If not, there are these forums and the Apologists to answer them for you. Peace and God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[AmateurPianist]

Without proselytizing or trying to convert you, I suggest you get a copy of the “Catechism of the Catholic Church”. It has an explanation and reason of/for everything taught by and believed by Catholics ( Roman ) of the Western Church. The Eastern Churches in communion with Rome also have their own catechism with the same beliefs. I would also suggest reading up on the history of the Church from the early Fathers down to the present. Doing this should answer all your questions. If not, there are these forums and the Apologists to answer them for you. Peace and God Bless.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Oh I understand the reasoning. I just do not agree with it. I started a thread on this a couple weeks back for further detail.

 

[Javl]

Oh I understand the reasoning. I just do not agree with it. I started a thread on this a couple weeks back for further detail.

OK. That is your perogative. You do have free will to agree or disagree. But, if you do wish further information, or to discuss on what you disagree with, then please do not hesitate to ask. We are all willing to answer as best we can. Meanwhile God Bless.

P.S. Here are a couple of links that may help you to a better understanding:

catholic-pages.com/pope/hahn.asp

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19921125en.html

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem