A question on contemporary and traditional Catholicism??

[jeannetherese]

I wonder about the dichotomy represented in the original post. Social justice seems to be prioritized in our faith across the board. I do agree that abortion tends to be de-emphasized in less traditional communities, based upon my own parish experience.
I have noticed that those self-identifying as traditional often look to catechesis as the basis for social justice. This seems to be a difference between the focci of the two communities you describe. In the parishes that I frequent, this catechesis is especially emphasized and supported by priests that may be seen as more traditional. But all of the priests that I recall over the course of my lifetime have spent time addressing issues which are broadly considered to fall under the classification of social justice.
I’m not sure that I want to think of prayer mysticism social justice as either/or categories for traditonal or liberal Catholics.

 

[severus68]

Hey Everyone!!

Disclaimer** I am not trying to start a fight, im just asking for opinions, no rude comments or sarcastic ones either!!

I have noticed something. Why is it that contemporary Catholicism (what you would call "liberal Catholic) emphasize social justice (e.g helping the homeless, the immigrant, etc.) and Traditional Catholicism ephasizes Mysticism and prayer. Now i can be very wrong but i have a soft spot for homeless people. However my leanings are traditional. Is there such a rift between the ephasis or am i just seeing things?? Any help please !!

What do you mean by “contemporary Catholics” and “liberal Catholics” please? The term “liberal Catholic” has derogatory connotations.

 

[severus68]

Sorry to have stirred the pot. But tell me if this sounds strange (this is a summary of MANY conversations with those who would call themselves progressive Catholics):
“Well, maybe abortion is wrong, but shouldn’t we be more focused on health care or the economy, which affect many more people?”
If we know Church teaching, then that statement should seem strange to you.

And please recall that the OP was interested in general ideas that pertain to a very general perception. So I obviously am not painting a picture of each Catholic. But what I wrote can be seen as a root cause for a healthy percentage of progressives – and that term is usually a signpost of someone who has deviated from some essential Church teaching. You take offense and think that I’m claiming this about anyone involved in social justice. That’s not a leap that you should have made.

The term “progressive Catholics” was not used by the OP. It would appear that you have come up with your own term and made negative assumptions.

 

[severus68]

I enjoyed reading your post. As a traditionalist or Tradical lol myself in reading your comments I think you hit the nail right on the head.

“Trads like parameters, which is fine, but they just can’t seem to stand the thought that everyone isn’t coloring inside the same lines”.

It dirves me crazy going to NO mass alter girls bobbytail bouncing to and fro dressed up like a priest,no alter rails,an amry of Eucharistic ministers,no distinction between the sanctuary and the nave (the alter rail served more than one purpose) the high alter is all but gone,the tabernacle in and out of the sanctuary,people throwing around the orans posture all the while they have no clue in what they are doing or even why they use it.Eucharistic Ministers blessing the small children, Clown Masses,Clapping, People grabbing at you to hold their hand instead of respecting your right not to have to. etc…

Somehow, I do not think you understood what Julia Mae had to say but she will speak for herself I am sure.

The correct term is OF. You appear to be putting down the OF and that is against the rules of this forum. You may prefer the EF and you can say so but not by making disparaging remarks about the OF.

 

[CesarAugustus]

That is a false dichotomy.

From what I’ve seen, Traditionalists care a lot about Church Social Doctrine. Is from “neoconservatives” that I’ve seen less focus on that.

As YoungTradCath said:

The difference, I think, is that traditional Catholicism does this with a full and well-rounded set of principles

Blessings!

 

[Julia_Mae]

You’re generalizing. I know two third order traditional Catholics in our small TLM community. In fact, I know an FSSP parish which also has a carmelite lay community.

Do you think it would be possible some day for you to simply state your own opinions without having to include some criticism of me or whoever else you disagree with?

 

[Julia_Mae]

It dirves me crazy going to NO mass alter girls bobbytail bouncing to and fro dressed up like a priest,no alter rails,an amry of Eucharistic ministers,no distinction between the sanctuary and the nave (the alter rail served more than one purpose) the high alter is all but gone,the tabernacle in and out of the sanctuary,people throwing around the orans posture all the while they have no clue in what they are doing or even why they use it.Eucharistic Ministers blessing the small children, Clown Masses,Clapping, People grabbing at you to hold their hand instead of respecting your right not to have to. etc…

I enjoyed reading yours, also. Loved “Tradical.” See, where I came from, the Mass, NO and all, was very reverently done. Yes, we held hands, and the altar girls had pony tails (which I preferred to the sloppy boy who picked his nose - ew) but there was nothing at all weird about it. The parish was very very prayerful, “liberal” I suppose, community service and also parishioner service oriented, and I miss it very much.

As the resident pinkocommie I really hated the churches with folding chairs meant to keep people from kneeling and needed much patience (still do) with folks who don’t have enough sense to keep quiet before and after Mass to respect those of us praying.

Jesus made room for all kinds of folks, He meets us where we are and leads us all Home. I just think we’d do all of ourselves a service if we kept a closer eye on Him and quit looking at one another.

 

[mymamamary]

Please everyone!! Relax, this was just a question, i dont want the guns to start coming out . My opinions are ( and please bear in mind, that opinions are just that, opinions, whatever i say isnt the right or only way to be a Catholic. It is my preference to be sure, yes, but it is not either in Canon Law or the Cathechism, so it remains an opinion. Im very sure that ther are sisters who wear suits who would give their lives in a heartbeat for Our LORD and HIS CHURCH, and im also sure there are a few nuns in full-blown habit that are sour faced I also love a few upbeat hymns. And i believe that altar girls should only happen when there are no males capable of altar serving e.g. All girls school). Now my statements reamin as opinons, so no, you dont have to listen to me to go to Heaven. However i believe that Our LORD should not be taken in the hand ( as you have to put HIM in the mouth anyway, why make two trips?? plus, people somtimes end up thinking as a result of the Communion-in the hand issue, that its just a cracker or wafer And to avoid derailing this thread, ive realized that Holy Mother Church has always been involved in social justice (she had to have been, as for the past 1960 years she has been following the command of St. Matthew 26 e.g feeding the hungy, giving drink to the thirsy, so yes, Traditional Catholicism does have an excellent background in social justice, all the while, we remember that these works only have meaning if they are accompanied by prayer. This is why atheistic philanthropic organizations fail, because the good works arent accompanied by prayer. Also, A Priest cannot burden himself with TOO much social work, as a Priest is a Priest for two reasons in all essentialness A) to Say HOLY MASS B) to Absolve sins. Just my :twocents:

 

[TrueLight]

Do you think it would be possible some day for you to simply state your own opinions without having to include some criticism of me or whoever else you disagree with?

I think so. Do you think it might be possible for you to be a little gentler with those you disagree with? A little more charity? You do tend to respond in a really rough manner.

My goodness. CAF is a near occasion of sin, sometimes.

 

[Julia_Mae]

This is why atheistic philanthropic organizations fail, because the good works arent accompanied by prayer.

What “atheistic philanthropic orginizations” do you know of that failed?

 

[Julia_Mae]

I think so. Do you think it might be possible for you to be a little gentler with those you disagree with?

I can try, but usually I’m just stating facts and people read tone where there isn’t one. (Except with Voris, of course. Moron.)

I will try to pay more attention to that, however. Thanks.

 

[PJM]

=mymamamary;9397471]Hey Everyone!!

Disclaimer** I am not trying to start a fight, im just asking for opinions, no rude comments or sarcastic ones either!!

I have noticed something. Why is it that contemporary Catholicism (what you would call "liberal Catholic) emphasize social justice (e.g helping the homeless, the immigrant, etc.) and Traditional Catholicism ephasizes Mysticism and prayer. Now i can be very wrong but i have a soft spot for homeless people. However my leanings are traditional. Is there such a rift between the ephasis or am i just seeing things?? Any help please !!

WHILE BOTH ARE ESSENTIAL IT IS A MATTER OF RIGHT PRIORITES:

FIRST GOD; THEN EVERYTHING ELSE:thumbsup:

 

[TimothyH]

Hey Everyone!!

Disclaimer** I am not trying to start a fight, im just asking for opinions, no rude comments or sarcastic ones either!!

I have noticed something. Why is it that contemporary Catholicism (what you would call "liberal Catholic) emphasize social justice (e.g helping the homeless, the immigrant, etc.) and Traditional Catholicism ephasizes Mysticism and prayer. Now i can be very wrong but i have a soft spot for homeless people. However my leanings are traditional. Is there such a rift between the ephasis or am i just seeing things?? Any help please !!

If anything, I would say that traditionalists are more rationalists than mystics, more interested in Thomas Aquinas than meditation on scripture for example. That’s just my perception from here on CAF. I could be wrong.

And there really isn’t anything more traditional than feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and visiting the sick and those in prison.

-Tim-

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

WHILE BOTH ARE ESSENTIAL IT IS A MATTER OF RIGHT PRIORITES:

FIRST GOD; THEN EVERYTHING ELSE:thumbsup:

But I don’t think you can necessarily say that people who do social justice don’t have God first?

 

[YoungTradCath]

A Catholic who promotes social “justice” without charity and without promoting the whole gamut of Catholic social positions is the classic example of a Cafeteria Catholic. Once again, this is rooted in either self-serving narcissism and selfishness or ignorance.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

A Catholic who promotes social “justice” without charity and without promoting the whole gamut of Catholic social positions is the classic example of a Cafeteria Catholic. Once again, this is rooted in either self-serving narcissism and selfishness or ignorance.

And a Catholic who is only worried about prayer without following the commandments such as love thy neighbor (helping the poor, feeding the hungry) is also a Cafeteria Catholic.

My grandmother was very staunch Catholic…and one of the meanest people I’ve known. She also never handed down the faith…

 

[YoungTradCath]

And a Catholic who is only worried about prayer without following the commandments such as love thy neighbor (helping the poor, feeding the hungry) is also a Cafeteria Catholic.

My grandmother was very staunch Catholic…and one of the meanest people I’ve known. She also never handed down the faith…

I never intended to imply that a Catholic can be a “good Catholic” without loving his neighbors, etc. One must have both a good, solid faith and morals foundation, and the physical actions of mercy and charity must proceed from that. If either side is missing, the person is either selfish and narcissistic–a la National Catholic Reporter–or is ignorant of his faith, both of which are problems.

 

[surritter]

The term “progressive Catholics” was not used by the OP. It would appear that you have come up with your own term and made negative assumptions.

I did introduce that term to the thread – not to inject “negative assumptions,” but because “liberal” and “conservative” are political terms that have no place in the Catholic parlance. (Although most people get the idea what is meant.) Also, I wasn’t sure if “contemporary Catholic” was the best term either, because that is indicative of a time period (ours).

The very people we are talking about actually embrace the term “progressive Catholic,” and they use this term because they think they are enlightened and will someday get the hierarchy to conform to their progressive views (based on what they think of as progress). I did not write of those who have a love for social justice (we all should), but those who have a love for social justice while at the same time scowling at the Church for her inability to ordain women or her vocal stance against abortion.

You may not believe it, but there are people who hold those views yet still claim to be Catholic. It is these whom I was trying to describe.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

I did introduce that term to the thread – not to inject “negative assumptions,” but because “liberal” and “conservative” are political terms that have no place in the Catholic parlance. (Although most people get the idea what is meant.)

The very people we are talking about actually embrace the term “progressive Catholic,” and they use this term because they think they are enlightened and will someday get the hierarchy to conform to their progressive views (based on what they think of as progress). I did not write of those who have a love for social justice (we all should), but those who have a love for social justice while at the same time scowling at the Church for her inability to ordain women or her vocal stance against abortion.

You may not believe it, but there are people who hold those views yet still claim to be Catholic. It is these whom I was trying to describe.

Isn’t that basically those nuns who are in trouble?

 

[Dorothy]

Please dont get this topic hot, i was just asking, so lets be true brothers and sisters in CHRIST and state our opinions peacefully (which surprisingly for the most part, this thread has done well), like i said, i have traditional leanings, mysticism, i love gregorian chant, basilicas, neo gothic churches and basilicas, traditional stained glass, the Holy Rosary, the Sacred Heart, Latin, incensce, traditional altar server cassocks, Priests dressed in their cassocks and altar boys, not girls ( please dont shoot me, this is just my opinion ), david haas has a few good hymns but the rest belong at retreats and revival meetings, not Holy Mass. I love and respect Brothers and Nuns dressed in their traditional habits not plainclothes and suits (for the nuns ). That being said however, i love the homeless, the immigrant, anyone looking for the LORD JESUS, the imprisioned, the sick etc. So

Everything you wrote above sounds fine to me. We are supposed to help those in need, as long as we remember that our actions need to be based on a solid prayer life, and that all we do is for the glory of God.

When a person just focuses on activism to the neglect of his prayer and sacramental life, then something is awry.