A question on mortal sin and full knoweldge

[FuzzyBunny116]

Say someone commits an act that is a mortal sin (Say, missing Mass on Sunday), yet does not have full knowledge that missing Mass is a mortal sin. If later they found out that it in fact WAS a mortal sin, would they be culpable? IE, if they died and never went to Confession or intended to, would they go to Hell?

 

[kmmd]

If he found out later that the sin was mortal then he should get to confession as quickly as he can. I believe (and I think this is what the Church teaches–somebody correct me if I am wrong) that when a person dies, God judges us as only God can. He knows the secrets of our heart and only He can judge the extent to which a person is culpable for their sins. But while His mercy is infinite and we all are counting on His mercy, we also know that He is infinitely just and there will be no punishment that is undeserved. To be able to understand this is a gift of the Holy Spirit that we used to call “Fear of the Lord”.

 

[Celia]

Umm…I think you have to have absolutely full knowledge of the sin in the first place. As in, “I know this is a mortal sin and I’m going to do it anyway” - that’s a mortal sin. I think one of the 3 stipulations is full knowledge at the time of the act. That doesn’t mean that the person shouldn’t go to confession, but the past act would most likely be considered venial. Someone correct me if I’m off on this, I don’t want to put out false info.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

FuzzyBunny116:

Say someone commits an act that is a mortal sin (Say, missing Mass on Sunday), yet does not have full knowledge that missing Mass is a mortal sin. If later they found out that it in fact WAS a mortal sin, would they be culpable? IE, if they died and never went to Confession or intended to, would they go to Hell?

Well, considering that in order for a sin to be mortal it needs to meet three conditions (full knowledge, consent of the will, and grave matter) the situation you describe cannot actually be a mortal sin.

You would be missing the “full knowledge” and “full consent of the will” parts. So, you are left with grave matter.

If it were me, I would bring it up at my next confession (once I became aware that what I had done was grave matter).

Now, if I did it again, I would have no excuse and it would indeed be a mortal sin for me.

I hope that was clear. I feel a but foggy in the brain today, lol.

Malia

 

[thistle]

FuzzyBunny116:

Say someone commits an act that is a mortal sin (Say, missing Mass on Sunday), yet does not have full knowledge that missing Mass is a mortal sin. If later they found out that it in fact WAS a mortal sin, would they be culpable? IE, if they died and never went to Confession or intended to, would they go to Hell?

I assume you are using missing Mass as an example only as I would expect every Catholic to know missing Mass is a mortal sin.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

thistle:

I assume you are using missing Mass as an example only as I would expect every Catholic to know missing Mass is a mortal sin.

What you expect and reality can be two very different things. Thankfully, any Catholic reading this thread can now consider themselves informed.

Malia

 

[Steven_Merten]

I cannot remember the last time a homilist ended his homily with now you have full knowledge and will burn in hell for all eternity if you disobey. I am thinking I have never heard them say this and I go to mass nearly every Sunday and have done so for forty years.

So what does everyone think. Is it better for Church leaders to preach other things than to teach what is mortal sin, seeing that once they preach it, it now causes eternal damnation. Should the Church teach the Protestants that missing Mass is mortal sin which would kind of confound the new Church ecumenical movement which is trying to pull away from the old “no salvation outside the Church”? Should the Pope hold loost the mortal sins of the Protestants for missing mass? If he does this for Protestants, should he also reduce such eternal death danger for Catholics as well? Should the Pope use his authority from Christ to equate Protestant services as equally valid to the Mass in regard to avoiding mortal sin? Should the Pope restate to clarify that to miss Protestant services or Mass on Sunday is mortal sin?

It seems to me that modern homilists prefer to preach on things that do not bind the flock to full knowledge which will damn their souls to hell for all eterninty and cause anomosity between Catholics and Protestants.

I think full knowledge, and its result eternal damnation for disobedience, would be an exellent topic for Pope Benedict XVI himself to clarify. Especially to homilists.

Exellent thread!

 

[Madia]

An interesting question might be what about those lackadaisical Catholics who are told that missing Mass is a grave sin but do it anyway and don’t firmly believe that it is a grave sin. Would they always be guilty of a mortal sin? What exactly is full knowledge?

For example, say a doctor said that you must stop taking antacids while you are on a medication. You, however, don’t understand why taking antacids would be wrong. Now, you have knowledge that taking antacids with your medication is wrong but you lack the understanding of why taking them are wrong. With that knowledge how culpable would you be for the negative side effects if you decided to take antacids with your medication?

Now, certainly you’d be more culpable than a person taking antacids with that medication who has no knowledge that the two shouldn’t be mixed. However, would you be as culpable as a person taking the medication and antacids who knows they shouldn’t be mixed and why they shouldn’t be mixed? What the person in a situation in which they are told doing something is wrong by a trusted individual (like their doctor) but lack understanding of why it is wrong should abstain from doing what is wrong and endeavor to find out why it is wrong.

 

[Steven_Merten]

Madia:

An interesting question might be what about those lackadaisical Catholics who are told that missing Mass is a grave sin but do it anyway and don’t firmly believe that it is a grave sin. Would they always be guilty of a mortal sin? What exactly is full knowledge?

For example, say a doctor said that you must stop taking antacids while you are on a medication. You, however, don’t understand why taking antacids would be wrong. Now, you have knowledge that taking antacids with your medication is wrong but you lack the understanding of why taking them are wrong. With that knowledge how culpable would you be for the negative side effects if you decided to take antacids with your medication?

Now, certainly you’d be more culpable than a person taking antacids with that medication who has no knowledge that the two shouldn’t be mixed. However, would you be as culpable as a person taking the medication and antacids who knows they shouldn’t be mixed and why they shouldn’t be mixed? What the person in a situation in which they are told doing something is wrong by a trusted individual (like their doctor) but lack understanding of why it is wrong should abstain from doing what is wrong and endeavor to find out why it is wrong.

Hello Madia,

I think you are confusing full knowledge of how things work with full knowledge of what is sin.

Even Church leaders consider real presence in the Euchairist a mystery. One would not have to have full knowledge of how real presence in the Eucharist works but one should have full knowledge that they should recieve the Eucharist regularly but not in a state of mortal sin.

If a person went to the doctor to be healed but refused to follow the doctor’s advice because he did not understand medicine, why should the man go to the doctor for healing?

We do not have to know how things work. We only need to know what to do to be healed.

 

[paramedicgirl]

**What you expect and reality can be two very different things. ** Thankfully, any Catholic reading this thread can now consider themselves informed.

Malia

Sad, but so very true!

 

[Steven_Merten]

Feanaro's Wife:

What you expect and reality can be two very different things. Thankfully, any Catholic reading this thread can now consider themselves informed.

Malia

Hello Feanaro’s Wife,

So why is it that our Popes, bishops and priests are not out their loudly and oftenly giving people full knowledge about mortal sin and the eternal death concequences of it?

Pope John Paul II blasted war and capital punishment constantly yet he nor any Pope that I know of ever held war or capital punishment as mortal sin. Missing Mass and using contraception are held as mortal sin by the Church. If one person goes to hell from using contracepteion or missing Mass is not more life lost (eternal life) than the combined loss of physical life lost from all the wars and capital punishments in all of human history? Should not Church leaders get back to the business of teaching the flock what causes eternal death and what the path to eternal life is in regard to mortal sins? Is not full knowledge of mortal sin far more important than all this other worldly political stuff?

 

[Madia]

I think you are confusing full knowledge of how things work with full knowledge of what is sin.

Does full knowledge mean knowledge that an act is sinful or knowledge that an act is sinful and sufficient knowledge on why an act is sinful?

For example, wouldn’t a person missing mass knowing that it was a grave sin and why it was a grave sin be more culpable than a person missing Mass knowing that it was a grave sin but not knowing why it was a grave sin? However, if the second person wasn’t sure why missing Mass was a grave sin but is told by someone of authority (such as a Priest) that it is a grave sin wouldn’t that person be obligated to find out why missing Mass is a grave sin if he doesn’t firmly believe that it is a grave sin?

For my example above, if the person doesn’t really believe that taking an antacid with his medication would do him any harm shouldn’t he take steps to find out why it is wrong before breaking his doctor’s warning?

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Steven Merten:

Hello Feanaro’s Wife,

So why is it that our Popes, bishops and priests are not out their loudly and oftenly giving people full knowledge about mortal sin and the eternal death concequences of it?

The way I see it, there is no shortage of information out there. When I have a question about what is sinful/not sinful, I can usually find the answer pretty easily.

If the Pope(s) spent all of his/their time going over every single issue of grave matter that could lead to mortal sin, they would have no time to expound on the more complicated issues like war etc.

We are responsible for continuing our own religious education. There is never a time when we are done learning.

That said, I do believe that individual priests should not be afraid to speak of grave matter and preach about the importance of educating ourselves about all sin.

Malia

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Madia:

Does full knowledge mean knowledge that an act is sinful or knowledge that an act is sinful and sufficient knowledge on why an act is sinful?

Understanding usually follows obedience. We do not need to understand why in order to do what is right.

Take an issue like contraception. All I need to know is that the Church tells me that it is grave matter, intrinsically evil, in order for me to know not to do it.

I can “not do it” while learning more about the reasons behind it.

God knows what is in our hearts. It is not up to us to judge another’s soul. One person may be more culpable in a matter than another, but all that matters is what I do. God will take care of them.

Personally, I think the issue of culpabilty is more to comfort another than to comfort ourselves. When I sin I offend God. The last thing I want to do is to make excuses for it. But it is good to hear from a priest in confession that I was not as culpable for whatever reason.

Malia

 

[Steven_Merten]

Feanaro's Wife:

If the Pope(s) spent all of his/their time going over every single issue of grave matter that could lead to mortal sin, they would have no time to expound on the more complicated issues like war etc.

Hello Malia,

The problem becomes that the Pope gives the image that the Church does not preach fire and brimstone anymore (I beleive it is Popes desire to give this image). The problem becomes that people begin to think war and capital punishment which are not mortal sins, become the grave evils in Christians minds rather than missing Mass and contraception that the Church binds as mortal sin which do damn souls to hell. One soul damned to hell for all eternity is a far greater loss of life (eternal life) than the combine loss of physical life cut short from all the wars in human history.

Do you not see this image the Vatican and bishops present that they do not want to be seen as preaching hell and damnation. Yet what is it that Christians in the world need? The Popes politcal opinion on world events or bold warnings to refrain from mortal sin for the salvation of souls?

 

[Steven_Merten]

Madia:

Does full knowledge mean knowledge that an act is sinful or knowledge that an act is sinful and sufficient knowledge on why an act is sinful?

For example, wouldn’t a person missing mass knowing that it was a grave sin and why it was a grave sin be more culpable than a person missing Mass knowing that it was a grave sin but not knowing why it was a grave sin? However, if the second person wasn’t sure why missing Mass was a grave sin but is told by someone of authority (such as a Priest) that it is a grave sin wouldn’t that person be obligated to find out why missing Mass is a grave sin if he doesn’t firmly believe that it is a grave sin?

For my example above, if the person doesn’t really believe that taking an antacid with his medication would do him any harm shouldn’t he take steps to find out why it is wrong before breaking his doctor’s warning?

Hello Madia,

Do we agree that missing Mass is a violation of God’s commandments? Do we agree that love for God is accomplished through obeying His command?

I think you are right in saying that a person should seek out why a sin is wrong. We do not go to heaven because we had ignorance and therefore no sin. We go to heaven because we seek out God’s instructions and strive to follow His word with all our strength out of love for Him. Jesus tells us that He will spit the luke warm Christians out of His mouth. Non-culpability to sin due to ignorance does not get you into heaven. Seeking and doing the will of God with all your heart is the path to eternal life through Jesus.
**NAB EXO 20:2 **

I, the LORD, am your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. You shall not have other gods besides me.**5: For I, the LORD, you God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their fathers’ wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation; but bestowing mercy down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments.**7: You shall not take the name of the LORD, your God, in vain.**8: Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.**12: Honor your father and your mother, that you may have a long life in the land which the LORD, your God, is giving you.13: You shall not kill.14: You shall not commit adultery.15: You shall not steal.16: You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.17: You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male or female slave, nor his ox or ***, nor anything else that belongs to him.

 

[Madia]

Do we agree that missing Mass is a violation of God’s commandments? Do we agree that love for God is accomplished through obeying His command?

What about a situation where a Catholic family only takes their children to Mass only on Easter and Christmas? Eventually, one of the children reads that missing Mass is a grave sin. When he mentions it to his parents they brush it off. Now, the child has been given knowledge that missing Mass is a grave sin but because of his upbringing it’s not an easy teaching for him to accept.

In situations like that would it automatically become a mortal sin for that child to miss Mass because he read that it is a grave sin or would more be required for full knowledge? It seems to me that even if it wasn’t a mortal sin for him to miss Mass with that knowledge his consciense would be telling him to further investigate and he’d be held culpable for not following his consciense to further investigate the matter.

BTW, yes I believe in all the teachings of The Holy Catholic Church including #2181 of the Catechism.

 

[Steven_Merten]

Madia:

What about a situation where a Catholic family only takes their children to Mass only on Easter and Christmas? Eventually, one of the children reads that missing Mass is a grave sin. When he mentions it to his parents they brush it off. Now, the child has been given knowledge that missing Mass is a grave sin but because of his upbringing it’s not an easy teaching for him to accept.

In situations like that would it automatically become a mortal sin for that child to miss Mass because he read that it is a grave sin or would more be required for full knowledge? It seems to me that even if it wasn’t a mortal sin for him to miss Mass with that knowledge his consciense would be telling him to further investigate and he’d be held culpable for not following his consciense to further investigate the matter.

BTW, yes I believe in all the teachings of The Holy Catholic Church including #2181 of the Catechism.

Hello Madia,

A child cannot drive. A child can ask their parents to take them to Mass but if the parent will not take them, missing Mass is not a sin freely chosen by the child. There are different situations where one cannot get to mass and it would not be a sin. We are not to work on Sunday. Yet we need police officers, doctors and nurses to work on Sunday or we as a society suffer. It is not a sin to work on Sunday if it is a nessessary job. Does this make sence?

 

[Madia]

A child cannot drive. A child can ask their parents to take them to Mass but if the parent will not take them, missing Mass is not a sin freely chosen by the child.

What if the child in the example is able to drive (16 years old)?

Basically, is there any difference between “full knowledge” and knowledge?

 

[thistle]

A pretty good checklist of mortal sins against each of the ten commandments can be found at website
www.catholic.org/frz/examen/mortal_main.htm
Also scrolling down you can find a checklist of venial sins and imperfections.
I use these lists every evening for an examination of my conscience.