A question that can change our eternity

  • Thread starter Thread starter MaximilianK
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

MaximilianK

Guest
I saw the video about Hell (crowd or empty), video is made by Bishop Robert Barron. I think that this view can and will influence our spiritual state and our state of the soul in the unseen warfare… “If in the and all (probably demons also) will be saved” what matter how you live and what you do, everything changes, time and even life on this earth lose his importance and maning. For me, and for nu friends, and i think for 300k+ of people who saw this, is a desaster for spiritual life, a kind of presumption, and in the end, i think, a thought and a trick of Satan.

How Roman Catholic Church (in the catechism and Aquinas, Damaschene) can keep both this view (of Bishop Barron) about salvation, and even about life, time, eternal state, this View are opossite, and one i think is from Our Father, God, and another one is from The Father of lie, Satan.

What’s in your mind, Brothers?
 
Our faith boils down to really two verses in the Bible if you think about it. The views of hell don’t matter as much as nobody has been there to tell the tale of what it was like. What matter is these two things:

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.“
- John 13:34

“You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.”
- Matthew 16:16

We are called to act humbly, walk with kindness, and live out mercy while also knowing that Jesus is the Christ. This is our faith, this is what our salvation should be focused on.
 
Last edited:
Didn’t the Bishop preface it with the theological vcirtue of hope? That we can hope that only demons are there?
 
I disagree, GospelOfMatthew. If the possibility of going to hell were not a legitimate concern, Jesus would not have kept bringing it up. I don’t believe he is one to make empty threats. In the actual Gospel of Matthew, Jesus warns:

“I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:20)

“If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body thrown into Gehenna. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body go into Gehenna.” (Matthew 5:29-30)

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many." (Matthew 7:13)

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’” (Matthew 25:41)
 
I’m not suggesting hell doesn’t exist, rather I think it’s good to focus on good works and having faith. The rest will work itself out
 
For some people fear of hell motivates them, some people are motivated by love. It is all very subjective and both approaches can work.
 
“… after death, there is no means for repentance, not because God does not accept repentance – He cannot deny Himself nor lose His compassion – but the soul does not change anymore … people after death are unchangeable, so that on the one hand the righteous desire God and always have Him to rejoice in, while sinners desire sin though they do not have the material means to sin … they are punished without any consolation. For what is hell but the deprivation of that which is exceedingly desired by someone? Therefore, according to the analogy of desire, whoever desires God rejoices and whoever desires sin is punished.” (“ Against the Manicheans” , PG 94:1573??)- St John Damascene
 
I always maintain the hope that nobody is in hell. We don’t know, but I hope that mercy is so great at the Final Judgement that nobody rejects God
 
Don’t you think the Gospel writers, the Apostles, took some lessons from the prophets of the Old Testament, in which things are intentionally stated in hyperbole so as to gain and maintain the attention of the faithful and make sure they do not depart from their religious beliefs? That may sometimes include scaring them to death.
 
Last edited:
meltzerboy2 said:
Don’t you think the Gospel writers, the Apostles, took some lessons from the prophets of the Old Testament, in which things are intentionally stated in hyperbole so as to gain and maintain the attention of the faithful and make sure they do not depart from their religious beliefs? That may sometimes include scaring them to death.
Click to expand...
No, I don’t think so. Jesus is not manipulative. He would not bring up the possibility of hell as a very real and likely danger if it weren’t so.

Besides, from what I understand, hell is not really directly mentioned in the Old Testament, but is revealed more, not less, in the New Testament, and by no one more than Jesus.

Ref: What is Hell?, Tim Staples for Catholic Answers
 
Last edited:
Fair enough. But a few points: one, I agree that hell is only tangentially referred to in the Hebrew Bible, and the concept evolves from Sheol to Gehenna. However, I was not referring to the topic of hell in the OT; rather, the rhetorical, somber, repetitive admonitions of the Prophets. This is what I believe the Apostles picked up on in their writing. Another point: AFAIK, Jesus is not a writer of the NT but His disciples were, and most of them were brought up in Jewish culture and, I believe, were quite aware of both the style of writing found in the OT and the fact that this style was needed to drive home the important points concerning what the people were and were not permitted to do. It’s not that Jesus is deceptive but that He, through His disciples, realizes that hyperbole was necessary to impress the people, especially since, as we both agree, the notion of hell has gained more significance in the NT.
 
Last edited:
According to your description, you are Jewish, correct? I ask because there are some underlying principles that I would expect a Catholic to presuppose but not a Jew.

While Jesus did not write any of the New Testament, the Church has always held that the New Testament is free of error. Therefore, we trust that it accurately reveals what it is supposed to reveal. When the NT writers tell us that Christ said something, I would assume that their words accurately communicate what Christ was saying.

For Christ to have made numerous warnings about hell as an idle threat would not only have been manipulative; it would have been a distraction of his greater message to love God above all things and one’s neighbor as oneself. If I try to act justly toward my neighbors and respectfully toward God primarily out of fear of hell, I really have not embraced the concept of agape love. But, if hell is a true possibility and Jesus intended to reveal the truth to us, it makes sense that he would tell us about hell, even though some might be led to obedience for the wrong reasons.

It is also important for us to know about hell because not only our we ourselves in danger of it if we turn away from God, but our neighbors are as well. If I truly love my neighbor, I am going to do what I can to help my neighbor avoid that danger. If hell is not a real possibility, then I can more or less just mind my own business and not worry about what happens to my neighbor in the next life.

Bottom line, if hell is an idle threat, than Jesus is a false prophet and a manipulator. I don’t believe that to be the case.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top