A question...

[child_of_God85]

I hear alot of Protostants bashing ‘Work’. I’m still new to the Catholic faith, so can someone tell me what they mean by ‘Works’?
Thanks.

 

[BrianH]

Works=good deeds can get you into heaven. A verse you will hear often is:
Tts 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Brian

 

[Lazerlike42]

When a Protestant (or a Catholic, for the most part) refers to works, he or she is referring to good deeds in general.

 

[Della]

BrianH:

Works=good deeds can get you into heaven. A verse you will hear often is:
Tts 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Brian

Right on definition. Of course, the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that “works=good deeds can get you into heaven.” It teaches that both faith and good works are possible only because of the free gift of grace given to us in Christ.

And, of course, there are verses that support doing good works and their importance, but there are none that say doing good works, in and of themselves, saves anyone. It is grace that saves us made evident in our lives by our faith and our good works.

 

[john_ennis]

I’ve also heard Protestant pastors refer to things like Penance as “works of the law.” The phrase “works of the law,” which Paul uses repeatedly, is about requirements of the Mosaic Law (things like circumcision), and the fact that such works can’t save us.

In fact, they have nothing to do with works of charity, which Matthew 25, as well as Christ’s own words (answering the question, “Master, what must I do to gain eternal life?”) assure us, DO have an effect on our salvation.

Peace.
John

 

[e-catholic]

The most prevelant place that I have found the importance of “faith” and “works” is in 1John 2. The whole chapter, remember “faith without works is dead”. I was once told that this was one of the NT books that was removed (along with the OT deutorocononicals) by Luther, later put back in by later Protestants.

Can anyone confirm this about Luther’s bible?

 

[Lazerlike42]

e-catholic:

The most prevelant place that I have found the importance of “faith” and “works” is in 1John 2. The whole chapter, remember “faith without works is dead”. I was once told that this was one of the NT books that was removed (along with the OT deutorocononicals) by Luther, later put back in by later Protestants.

Can anyone confirm this about Luther’s bible?

You are thinking of James. And it is true that Luther wished to remove James, along with 2 Peter, Revelation, and Hebrews.

 

[e-catholic]

Lazerlike42:

You are thinking of James. And it is true that Luther wished to remove James, along with 2 Peter, Revelation, and Hebrews.

Yes, I realized that shortly after I posted it. Here is a quote from a site on Luther.

I see that Luther rejects the apostolicity of Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation, although he does say they are “fine” books. Yet of James, Luther states that it is “flatly against St. Paul and all the rest of Scripture.”

ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ325.HTM

 

[Della]

john ennis:

I’ve also heard Protestant pastors refer to things like Penance as “works of the law.” The phrase “works of the law,” which Paul uses repeatedly, is about requirements of the Mosaic Law (things like circumcision), and the fact that such works can’t save us.

In fact, they have nothing to do with works of charity, which Matthew 25, as well as Christ’s own words (answering the question, “Master, what must I do to gain eternal life?”) assure us, DO have an effect on our salvation.

Peace.
John

Yes. We can’t just claim to believe and then do nothing with the grace God gave us and expect to be saved after sitting on our hands and doing nothing good for others, or not doing good where we can.

 

[e-catholic]

Della:

Yes. We can’t just claim to believe and then do nothing with the grace God gave us and expect to be saved after sitting on our hands and doing nothing good for others, or not doing good where we can.

Yes, Luther was the catlyst for Christian reform. Profound, and inspiring. He made christianity what is is today.

 

[vern_humphrey]

“Works” can have two different meanings. One is charity – doing good deeds. The other is adherance to the law (such as the law of Moses, which is what Paul often means in this context.)

Catholics believe that, as James says:

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? 17 So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

(James 2, 14-17)

 

[Della]

Originally Posted by Della
Yes. We can’t just claim to believe and then do nothing with the grace God gave us and expect to be saved after sitting on our hands and doing nothing good for others, or not doing good where we can.

Yes, Luther was the catlyst for Christian reform. Profound, and inspiring. He made christianity what is is today.

I must have missed a beat. What does Luther have to do with my comment?

 

[john_ennis]

Protestants I’ve talked with always talk about “works” from the point-of-view that they are our works, and since we can do no good of ourselves, these works have no saving value.

Where we disagree is in the idea that true works of love/charity are strictly “our” works. Clearly, they originate with Christ. With our cooperation–our “Fiat”–He is loving others by these works.

So OF COURSE works of charity have salvific value. Who will dare to say that Christ’s works are worthless?

Peace,

John