(A Rant) I'm beginning to wonder if there are any men who don't

[kage_ar]

I know another one (I’m married to the other one )

Married to number three here.

The way I see it, it is about a man turning from sin, having a daily conversion and relationship with God.

When viewed this way, I can honestly say if this evening I found DH viewing some porn web site, I would not take it personally. I would be sorry to see him commit a grave sin, concerned about his immortal soul and would pray for him, love him and advise him to seek out one of our good holy Priests.

Serious sin is serious sin. Sin is always disguised as something plesant.

 

[Ridgerunner]

It could be, but I’m not sure women realize how MEN also react negatively to men who view porn or masturbate. It’s different, and I’m sure, nowhere near as profound; certainly not hurtful. But the truth is, most men totally disdain a porn lover or “wanker” and would never, in a million years, want either a man or a woman to know they do it. Why do you think there are so many disdainful terms men use for one who does it? I’m not sure I could even begin to count them all.

I was surprised, on reading “Charlotte Simmons” to realize how depraved many young people are now, in that way as well as in relationships between men and women. (Giving due regard for Tom Wolfe’s somewhat-exaggerated, derisive focus.)

But among even most young men, these particular sins are considered “unmanly” in a very major way. Most men are “outward” oriented in a very fundamental way. My own prejudice is that it is natural for men to be that way.

Not wishing to be too graphic here, sexuality is, among most men, considered “manly” ONLY when it is “outward” oriented; that is, oriented to a real, live, particular woman, and only to the woman as she really is. Resort to anything else is a demonstration that he’s not a “real” man. Real men have real women. There is an Italian saying about that, but I can’t say it here, or in mixed company anywhere.

I realize what I have said does not remove the hurt women feel. As a man, I will always remain defective in truly understanding that as a woman understands it. I would never even try to “advise” a woman how to bring “manliness” vs “unmanliness” to bear in a conflict like women have described in here. But it’s the truth, and a man who is into porn or masturbation knows it full well.

 

[Magicsilence]

It could be, but I’m not sure women realize how MEN also react negatively to men who view porn or masturbate. It’s different, and I’m sure, nowhere near as profound; certainly not hurtful. But the truth is, most men totally disdain a porn lover or “wanker” and would never, in a million years, want either a man or a woman to know they do it. Why do you think there are so many disdainful terms men use for one who does it? I’m not sure I could even begin to count them all.

I was surprised, on reading “Charlotte Simmons” to realize how depraved many young people are now, in that way as well as in relationships between men and women. (Giving due regard for Tom Wolfe’s somewhat-exaggerated, derisive focus.)

But among even most young men, these particular sins are considered “unmanly” in a very major way. Most men are “outward” oriented in a very fundamental way. My own prejudice is that it is natural for men to be that way.

Not wishing to be too graphic here, sexuality is, among most men, considered “manly” ONLY when it is “outward” oriented; that is, oriented to a real, live, particular woman, and only to the woman as she really is. Resort to anything else is a demonstration that he’s not a “real” man. Real men have real women. There is an Italian saying about that, but I can’t say it here, or in mixed company anywhere.

I realize what I have said does not remove the hurt women feel. As a man, I will always remain defective in truly understanding that as a woman understands it. I would never even try to “advise” a woman how to bring “manliness” vs “unmanliness” to bear in a conflict like women have described in here. But it’s the truth, and a man who is into porn or masturbation knows it full well.

I’m not sure this is true. Not in England anyway. But then, we don’t have any real men, of any kind

 

[ABalch]

One cause of so many men being addicted to porn is what a couple of people on here have already said, and the situation that I find myself in. Yes, I fight continuously against the tempation to pornography and masterbation.

I began looking at porn when I found it in my older brother’s room when I was about 12 years old. During those formative years, seeing my older brother have many different serial relationships, getting into viewing porn by sneaking into his room when he was gone, I feel I stunted my growth in my ability to form a normal relationship. I have had difficulty meeting women, and difficulty keeping a relationship. Many times I am afraid to even try to meet and form a relationship with someone, for fear of just this sort of reaction; that if I let a woman know that I have fought the addiction for so long, and still sometimes fall back into temptation, that they will judge me a total pervert, and not want anything to do with me ever again.

I used to smoke; that was easy to give up because it made it hard to do physical things like hike, swim, bike, etc.

I used to drink, sometimes binging. That was easy to give up because I hated the hangovers, and the effects I saw that it had on my father.

But, porn and masterbation has been the hardest vice for me to give up, because I have been doing it the longest, and on the surface, physically it doesn’t have an immediate or chronic damage, and although very shallow, it feels a need, most often when I am depressed about my total lack of a healthy relationship with the opposite sex.

It is the hardest thing for me to turn around, in all the parts of my life I had to turn around when I entered the Catholic Church 4 years back, from living up until 32 a rather poor excuse for a life.

So, I can understand your frustration if you see your male friends, relatives, and significant other not trying to fight this, and treating it as normal. But, I caution you to see that, although more damaging perhaps spiritually than other forms of addiction, it can be a most insidiuos addiction for many men.

Most men I personally have known that also suffer from a great temptation and addiction to porn, have something in their past that shows it came about during their formative teenaged years, when they are forming the patterns of behaviors toward the opposite sex.

You certainly should not accept anyone’s claims that it is normal to view porn, but you should try to have perhaps more sympathy and caring than I infer from your original post.

Pray for me; I will certainly pray for your situation, that the Holy Spirit might stir these men in your life to see the damage they do to themselves in not fighting these temptations with all of their might.

Albert

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’m not sure this is true. Not in England anyway. But then, we don’t have any real men, of any kind

Yikes! No more “thin red line of heroes?” I’m shattered! Maybe they need to be tied to auditorium seats and forced to watch John Wayne movies, dawn to dusk, for a month, then retrained to speak with Oklahoma accents, then made to drive long-haul trucks over the Rockies for a year.

I believe that might do it.

 

[chevalier]

Porn is disgusting. The rest of the things is disgusting as well. They’re ugly devices appealing to the lowest urges - and I don’t mean to describe sex drive itself as a low urge here.

On the other hand, I don’t think it’s just men who have the problem. I know of at least one spinster party (sorry, “bachelorette” is not a word) taking place soon and featuring a cake shaped after a man’s genitals. I’ve heard some things too. True, men are visual, but it’s not only men who have problems with their sexuality. Clothes are a good example.

And yes, I can see how porn is betrayal.

 

[JimG]

I was surprised, on reading “Charlotte Simmons” to realize how depraved many young people are now, in that way as well as in relationships between men and women. (Giving due regard for Tom Wolfe’s somewhat-exaggerated, derisive focus.)

Wolfe claims to have researched the book at several college campuses. It is perhaps a novel that parents ought to read before sending their kids off to college!

 

[dawid]

An ex-pat, ex-colleague became “addicted” to voyeurism. It was an addiction - it reminded me of people who become addicted to soapies on TV (they will walk out of a conversation to watch even if it’s impolite!), but his behaviour was unhealthy and far more urgent in his need for it!

I believe people develop the same addiction with porn. If the urge is at least as great, then the effort to extricate themselves is formidable and they must need support!

This is a sample of the yield from a short google search:

The next question that pops up in my mind is: are there any programmes to wean people “addicted” to porn?

Here is the URL for the wikipedia discussion on the subject: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_addiction

And here is a site that assists the addicts (they do take it very seriously): no-porn.com/

However, we as Catholics have the gift in the sacrament of reconcilliation that is critical in our struggles!

 

[housewife]

There are. My DH and his friends. They are all good guys in every way. I can’t imagine any of them looking at that stuff. Much less my DH.

 

[Ridgerunner]

In my mind, addiction to porn is as much, or more, of a “sin of thought” than anything else. If a pornographic picture flashed on a person’s screen and he got rid of it and thought no more about it, it wouldn’t be addictive at all.

I remember once being in a discussion about sex between “of age” male adults and “underage” but post-pubescent girls. The group consisted of professional men, all well educated, and none of whom I would suspect of actually doing it. However, I recall someone opining that any man was likely to fall if expertly seduced over time by, e.g., an extremely attractive 17-year-old. One of them challenged me to deny that I would.

I responded that I thought there was little or no possibility of it. Incredulous, he asked me how I could be so sure I could resist. Others in the group (none Catholic) seemed to think my statement was too confident as well.

“How do you know?” he repeated.

(Now, here’s where one is in a box, one in which the truth will only strain credibility more)

“Because I’m Catholic”, I replied. “I have been trained from a very young age how to prevent myself from dwelling on sexual temptations; just to put them out of my mind as if they don’t exist, and, by now, I have learned it fairly well. I’m pretty confident I could do it.”

Of course, that was considered an extremely strange revelation. It was obvious none of the group ever heard of such a thing, and were completely unfamiliar with the very notion of it.

Maybe I’m naive, but I really do think the emphasis religious educators at least had at one time about that, was absolutely proper. I’m not sure how much it’s emphasized anymore.

It’s difficult, anymore, to avoid pornography or near-pornography entirely. It’s just too commonplace. But I still maintain that if one does not dwell on it, gets away from it and puts it out of one’s mind, then one is nearly (at least) immune to it.

Now, not to get too graphic or anything, I also think that ability to control one’s thoughts has a positive aspect in another way. It just can’t happen in a marriage that both spouses are equally “ready” at the same time always. If, however, one perceives that one’s spouse is “in the mood”, one can also get oneself into the same place by, (sound of gulping and throat clearing here) turning one’s thoughts to the spouse in “that way” and, indeed, “dwelling” on one’s spouse in that way for a bit.

 

[purelovemmc]

Look at porn that is.

Or go to strip clubs or topless bars.

I’ve really had it with believing that there must be ONE man left who is able to refrain from it.

It something that has broken me down over and over and over again. It’s been devastating to find out that my grandfather, my father, my uncles, my brothers, good friends, boyfriends, husband, and now my SO whom I was convinced was a totally different kind of guy, ALL look at it.

What’s worse, is I’m looked at as some sort of supreme prude for not accepting this as OK.

I’m tired. I give up. And I’m really tired of hearing excuses.

What is it that is so enticing to men about some strangers breasts? Or rear end? Or whatever body part they may be fixated on? Don’t men realize that there are millions of women in the world who have these parts and there are actually women who love them enough to let them see these parts and be intimate with them IN REAL LIFE??(I’m talking wives) Do they not realize that there are women who would actually be interested in loving them, and making love to them not just taking advantage of them, and taking their money?? No, that never seems to be as appealing as some skank bent over on the computer screen. I’m sorry, but there is no mincing words with me on this subject anymore. It’s disgusting.

At this point, I just am not interested. In men, in relationships, in excuses, in anything. I refuse to accept this sick perversion as normal and I refuse to accept that I shouldn’t be bothered by it, and grossed out by it, or that I shouldn’t take it personally. That’s crud.

Hi!

“My dearest Jesus,
teach me to be patient,”

–Just be super patient. I spent many years not even trying to look for the most devout Catholic man I may ever meet, but I did. God blessed me with one, and I know He will too for those ladies who persist in praying for one. The world is big, and there are lots of devout Catholic men whom you haven’t met. It is quite unfair to generalize men especially because there are some who really struggle every second, every moment of their lives living in a world poisoned by all these inappropriate visual stimuli (which are the weakness of men).

“when all day long
my heart is troubled
by little,
but troublesome crosses.”

–If you are really feeling so desperate, you can have some hope if you offer up these sufferings to God. You will not only get through this pain, but also find more blessings in the future.

God Bless!

 

[Ridgerunner]

I truly don’t think all men have always succumbed to the temptation. I do think the last generation has real problems with it.

I think women would do a lot of good going to at least the Catholic schools and insist that young boys be taught about the serious sinfulness of impurity instead of the vague “loving, caring and sharing” they have been taught for, what? At least thirty years now? Forty?

 

[Jofantioch]

Look at porn that is.

Or go to strip clubs or topless bars.

I’ve really had it with believing that there must be ONE man left who is able to refrain from it.

It something that has broken me down over and over and over again. It’s been devastating to find out that my grandfather, my father, my uncles, my brothers, good friends, boyfriends, husband, and now my SO whom I was convinced was a totally different kind of guy, ALL look at it.

What’s worse, is I’m looked at as some sort of supreme prude for not accepting this as OK.

I’m tired. I give up. And I’m really tired of hearing excuses.

My sympathies with you. Why not try a different tack. Instead of saying "I want a man who isn’t. . . " or “a man who doesn’t . . .”, why not think about what you do want. I tried this and found a wonderful guy whom I love very much. This was my new list of what I want. Try focusing on the positive instead of the negative. Keep in mind that you may not want what I want in a man.

1. 
   *]a heterosexual man
   *]a man who is attracted to my actual body, not my dream body
   *]a man whose sexuality is strong and an integral part of him
   *]a man who is affectionate and loving naturally
   *]a man who has already brought his sexuality to Jesus for guidence BEFORE he met me
   *]a man who has his own faith and his own relationship with God BEFORE HE MET ME
   *]a man who has his sexuality in a healthy, Christian state
   *]a man who can love me more than his need to “get off”
   *]a man who can discern love from objectification and choose love
   
   This is my list. As a school teacher, I am used to teaching my class what TO DO, instead of having them focus on what NOT to do (a much longer list). It works, and it will change you.

 

[GraceDK]

Jo…

good post sister in Jesus

 

[onmyknees]

I know what addiction is like and I know most people would consider my temptations ugly and hard to sympathize with. It hurts me however to know that things as ugly on every level as porn is are so appealing to men that they are a serious addiction for it seems to be most of the men in the world. Why? I know about visual stimulation. But why something ugly? It hurts my spirit to know I’m surrounded by and interacting with people who actually like nauseating things and not pretty and inspiring things. I don’t even like doing business or making small talk with someone who might secretly be so incomprehensible. I’m not judging. I’m just dazed from the shock even after all these years. And I know there are woemn porn addicts too. I know at least one who was pretty extreme about it, in fact. I don’t understand her either though. If you are a amle or female porn addict, can you tell me why you aren’t just turned off by those sights like some of us? Are there two sides to you and if so which one is stronger? Does it change? Does it start off different from how it turns out, like drinking? What part of you does it hook you with?

strngrnrth,
I am a female and I have had an addiction to sexual thoughts, reading sexual material, sexual pictures, masturbation and anything to do with sex since I was very small. When I came back to the Church 4 years ago I realized this was sinful. I have had quite a struggle trying to stop this addiction but with frequent confession to the same confessor, prayer and frequent reception of the Holy Eucharist I have improved but I still fall. I built my self-esteem around my physical and sexual attractiveness to men. I still see myself as an object. It is really sad. What helps me is reading the posts from good holy men, scriptures, quotes from the saints, and the psalms. My favorite from St. Paul is Phil.4:8. “Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.” St. Augustine, “Thou hast made us for Thyself O’ Lord and our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee.” Psalm 139 and 51.
To answer your questions I do feel like I have to sides to my personality at times. I want to do good but I sometimes don’t. I get hooked to it with my mind. Then it’s like an escape into selfish pleasure like binge eating. I am going to a psychologist now so I can hopefully change how I think about myself.

 

[JustAnotherThou]

My DH has does NOT look at porn, go to strip clubs, or even look at women dressed inappropriately.

He went to a strip club once in college with some friends and said he hated it because the place was stinky and dirty. He is OCD so things like that get to him.

He has never bought pornography. He does not even like to see women dressed in revealing clothing. He is a worrier and worries that when women dress with too much exposed they are attracting the wrong type of attention.

Now by no means is he prude. We have an excellent sex life and are very happily married.

My brother who is in the Army is also VERY much against pornography. Both of my BIL’s are also very much against it. Honestly I can’t think of a man in my family that views it or condones it. All of them are very outspoken against it. Honestly I think it is linked to their respect for women.

 

[rpp]

strngrnrth,
I am a female and I have had an addiction to sexual thoughts, reading sexual material, sexual pictures, masturbation and anything to do with sex since I was very small. When I came back to the Church 4 years ago I realized this was sinful. I have had quite a struggle trying to stop this addiction but with frequent confession to the same confessor, prayer and frequent reception of the Holy Eucharist I have improved but I still fall. I built my self-esteem around my physical and sexual attractiveness to men. I still see myself as an object. It is really sad. What helps me is reading the posts from good holy men, scriptures, quotes from the saints, and the psalms. My favorite from St. Paul is Phil.4:8. “Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is gracious, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.” St. Augustine, “Thou hast made us for Thyself O’ Lord and our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee.” Psalm 139 and 51.
To answer your questions I do feel like I have to sides to my personality at times. I want to do good but I sometimes don’t. I get hooked to it with my mind. Then it’s like an escape into selfish pleasure like binge eating. I am going to a psychologist now so I can hopefully change how I think about myself.

May God continue to grant you strength in your struggle. St. Catherine of Sienna admitted to struggling with such thoughts and temptations to. God gave her the grace and strength to overcome them too.

St. Augustine, before he concerted, was also not a very sexually pure man. In his book Confessions he said that when he was a young man, and long before his conversion, he prayed “Lord make me chaste, but not yet.”

Pope John Paul II wrote that pornography is evil not because it shows too much, but because it shows too little; it does not and cannot show the spiritual link, the true closeness of husband and wife.

Looking at porn is evil When a husband looks at porn, he is cheating on his wife. Most women understand that intuitively. Most men never get it.

I am a man and I too have struggled with this. Since my conversion from atheism in 2003, I have prayed for God’s strength to over come this. With His help, and the intercession of the saints, I have done so. But, like any addiction, I must constantly be on guard.

And I also had to change my life. The most important thing I did was to get filter software for the computer and have a friend, not me, hold the password.

I also disable the on-demand pay-per-view service from my cable TV company. I do not subscribe to premium channels so I do not get the “soft-core” porn from them.

These are important steps, but they are all useless without prayer and the discipline of frequent fasting.

 

[onmyknees]

May God continue to grant you strength in your struggle. St. Catherine of Sienna admitted to struggling with such thoughts and temptations to. God gave her the grace and strength to overcome them too.

St. Augustine, before he concerted, was also not a very sexually pure man. In his book Confessions he said that when he was a young man, and long before his conversion, he prayed “Lord make me chaste, but not yet.”

Pope John Paul II wrote that pornography is evil not because it shows too much, but because it shows too little; it does not and cannot show the spiritual link, the true closeness of husband and wife.

Looking at porn is evil When a husband looks at porn, he is cheating on his wife. Most women understand that intuitively. Most men never get it.

I am a man and I too have struggled with this. Since my conversion from atheism in 2003, I have prayed for God’s strength to over come this. With His help, and the intercession of the saints, I have done so. But, like any addiction, I must constantly be on guard.

And I also had to change my life. The most important thing I did was to get filter software for the computer and have a friend, not me, hold the password.

I also disable the on-demand pay-per-view service from my cable TV company. I do not subscribe to premium channels so I do not get the “soft-core” porn from them.

These are important steps, but they are all useless without prayer and the discipline of frequent fasting.

Thanks rpp for all your helpful advice, understanding, support and the prayer! Unfortunately I’m not allowed to fast because my confessor has forbidden it for me due to my binging/starving eating disorder. I try to always be on guard too but sometimes I don’t want to and the desire to sin wins. I will pray for you too. I also am married to a non-Christian and so when I tell him about the bad thoughts he says,“really tell me about them.” He likes all that stuff so this makes it even harder to stop.

 

[someotherguy]

Look at porn that is.

Or go to strip clubs or topless bars.

I’ve really had it with believing that there must be ONE man left who is able to refrain from it.

It something that has broken me down over and over and over again. It’s been devastating to find out that my grandfather, my father, my uncles, my brothers, good friends, boyfriends, husband, and now my SO whom I was convinced was a totally different kind of guy, ALL look at it.

What’s worse, is I’m looked at as some sort of supreme prude for not accepting this as OK.

I’m tired. I give up. And I’m really tired of hearing excuses.

What is it that is so enticing to men about some strangers breasts? Or rear end? Or whatever body part they may be fixated on? Don’t men realize that there are millions of women in the world who have these parts and there are actually women who love them enough to let them see these parts and be intimate with them IN REAL LIFE??(I’m talking wives) Do they not realize that there are women who would actually be interested in loving them, and making love to them not just taking advantage of them, and taking their money?? No, that never seems to be as appealing as some skank bent over on the computer screen. I’m sorry, but there is no mincing words with me on this subject anymore. It’s disgusting.

At this point, I just am not interested. In men, in relationships, in excuses, in anything. I refuse to accept this sick perversion as normal and I refuse to accept that I shouldn’t be bothered by it, and grossed out by it, or that I shouldn’t take it personally. That’s crud.

I don’t. I’ve never been into porn or strip clubs.

About the closest I ever came to a strip club was C.R. Fannies in Wildwood N.J. and that wasn’t even a real strip club.

Men and women are wired, in a sense, to notice the opposite sex. It’s only with the introduction of sin that it became bad or sinful.

I don’t do it for two reasons:

1. Because I know it would be a sin
2. Because it would hurt my wife and I would never allow that to happen

 

[shannyk]

Looking at porn is evil When a husband looks at porn, he is cheating on his wife. Most women understand that intuitively. Most men never get it.

Thank you. You posting this gives me hope that somebody does get it.

Kudos to you for trying so hard to conquer this in your life