A real counter-blast against 'doing what we feel is best' in the Liturgy

[The_Curt_Jester]

Why do you guys keep insisting I didn’t understand the context when in fact it’s quite clear I did ? The OP concerns a list of arguments that Mr. Tucker presented, and doesn’t agree with. He just didn’t refute them one by one. I picked one and did so.

I suppose someone could mistakenly think Mr Tucker listed his own views due to the title and opening text, but I didn’t.

God Bless

Note I didn’t mention Mr. Tucker. So you’re making an assumption yourself.

 

[At_Trent]

… In other words, the author of those points is agreeing with you entirely - saying such is an ignorant thing to say!..

Note I didn’t mention Mr. Tucker. So you’re making an assumption yourself.

Sure about that ?

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

Sure about that ?

Positive. The author is the person who made that list. Mr. Tucker made it clear that he was posting what the other person listed.

*“A director of music at a Catholic parish, obviously of long experience, sent me a list he has been keeping of things that people believe that are not so.”
*

It’s pretty obvious that Mr. Tucker isn’t the author of those points.

 

[At_Trent]

Positive. The author is the person who made that list. Mr. Tucker made it clear that he was posting what the other person listed.

*“A director of music at a Catholic parish, obviously of long experience, sent me a list he has been keeping of things that people believe that are not so.”
*

It’s pretty obvious that Mr. Tucker isn’t the author of those points.

gotcha

 

[malphono]

I don’t think you read my posts.

Actually I did read your posts.

Why do you guys keep insisting I didn’t understand the context when in fact it’s quite clear I did ? The OP concerns a list of arguments that Mr. Tucker presented, and doesn’t agree with. He just didn’t refute them one by one. I picked one and did so.

OK, now I get it. Your intent wasn’t particularly clear (at least not to me and, looking at other posts in this thread, probably not to several others here as well).

And I think Mr Tucker would agree with me on the statement, or common/erroneous argument if you prefer, against Latin in the liturgy.

No doubt he does. And FWIW, so do I.

 

[laszlo]

Sorry, but is a silly statement. It presumes one must understand Latin to understand the Mass. I don’t speak Latin, but I know what the phrases that are repeated in every TLM mean. With a Latin/English missal, there is no reason not to understand every moment of the TLM, or OF in Latin for that matter.

Only a lack of effort would prevent it.

The Catholic Church requires Holy Tradition for the full understanding of the Scriptures. Only the living authority, the Magisterium can interpret the Scriptures to us properly. Out mind in itself is insufficient for full understanding?

Why do you think that text of Mass is essentially different, and you can understand it using an almost 100 years old translation?

The Mass deals with supernatural things, We are not able to understand fully, we need the everyday interpretation of the Church.

It is the temptation of the Satan that human effort can overcame this of our basic insufficiency for full understanding of the supernatural.

The Church is the only interpreter and we need every help what the Church provides for this understanding: words, actions, declarations etc.

 

[ProVobis]

Why do you think that text of Mass is essentially different, and you can understand it using an almost 100 years old translation?

While I’m not advocating any translation, in fact I despise some, I must point out that much of the English Mass translation, especially the new translation, goes all the way back to the 16th century. So if it’s good enough to be used for an actual Catholic liturgy, why is it wrong to use it as a guide for the Latin Mass?

 

[ConstantineTG]

The problem is not in Liturgy itself, I think that people in North America specially needs to express their culture and ethnic identity in their profession of faith, not in the Liturgy but in something else. The problem is that there is nothing else other than Liturgy being done in North America.

This Holy Week and Easter, our Bishop was sharing the traditions they had in Ukraine. And it made me think back to the traditions we had in the Philippines. So rich, so much expression of faith. You have none of that here in North America. Catholic Feasts are absolutely bland here outside of Liturgy. Thus, all the creative energy of people go to the Liturgy than to something else.

 

[MarkThompson]

This Holy Week and Easter, our Bishop was sharing the traditions they had in Ukraine. And it made me think back to the traditions we had in the Philippines. So rich, so much expression of faith. You have none of that here in North America. Catholic Feasts are absolutely bland here outside of Liturgy. Thus, all the creative energy of people go to the Liturgy than to something else.

This is true. If I had to guess, it is probably due to the thoroughgoing Irishness of Catholicism in the United States.

 

[ConstantineTG]

This is true. If I had to guess, it is probably due to the thoroughgoing Irishness of Catholicism in the United States.

Possibly because Catholicism is also a minor religion here. In the Philippines, you can shut down major highways just so the parishes can have their processions on those highways. They’d even have police escorts. I don’t see that happening in the US. But still, perhaps people should think of wonderful ways of celebrating the faith within what society allows, besides Liturgy.

For example, in the Ukrainian Church, they would build a prop tomb where the shroud with the icon of the burial of Christ will be laid. Its up to the creativity of each parish (clergy and laity) to create their own tombs. So in the evening of Good Friday, people would literally walk from parish to parish visiting the tomb made by each parish. People would reverence the shroud on the tomb, they approach kneeling and then kissing the image of Christ. People also light candles on the main aisle of the church.

These kinds of expressions of faith, I do not find here. Many immigrants try to bring their traditions from their countries, but there isn’t a tradition that is born and bred here. And like I said, instead of being creative outside the Liturgy, people then focus their energies on the Liturgy which is a bad thing.

 

[At_Trent]

. And FWIW, so do I.

I figured you’d agree

 

[At_Trent]

The Catholic Church requires Holy Tradition for the full understanding of the Scriptures. Only the living authority, the Magisterium can interpret the Scriptures to us properly. Out mind in itself is insufficient for full understanding?

Why do you think that text of Mass is essentially different, and you can understand it using an almost 100 years old translation?

The Mass deals with supernatural things, We are not able to understand fully, we need the everyday interpretation of the Church.

It is the temptation of the Satan that human effort can overcame this of our basic insufficiency for full understanding of the supernatural.

The Church is the only interpreter and we need every help what the Church provides for this understanding: words, actions, declarations etc.

You are right in what you say, but I never implied I hold the key to the Sacred Mysteries. What I know about what is happening at a given moment during Mass is as you say, what the Church has taught.