A relationship with Christ

[peary]

A relationship with Christ is key to being a Christian and I think most would agree on that.
What if that relationship leads you away from the CC? I’ve been doing alot of bible reading lately and taken focus off of particular types of religion (I use Catholicism here because I was born and raised Catholic and that’s all I know). From reading the Bible, the message of salvation seems simple and not as impossible as the CC portrays it to be. I feel like the CC makes it seem like no one is ever going to get to heaven because nothing is ever good enough, you know?
Does anyone else feel this way or am I talking to the wrong crowd?

First of all, if one is truly as practicing Catholic Christian, a relationship to Christ will never - NEVER - lead you away from the Catholic Church. The Eucharist is the center of that relationship. To reject the Eucharist means one rejects the Church.

Also, I do not think you are reading the bible correctly if you think that the message of salvation is so easy. Concentrate on Paul’s letters and you will see that he understands salvation more closely attuned to the Catholic Church than any nonCatholic denomination of today.

 

[Verita]

I guess it just seems like no matter how hard you would try, there would always be something keeping you from getting it right.

Actually, it’s that no matter how hard you try, you are keeping you from getting it right. It’s called sin.

It just seems like there are so many rules and teachings that it’s impossible to keep up with them all.

Imagine living in Old Testament times.

I get wrapped up in thinking about all that and I lose sight of what’s most important: my relationship with Christ. I guess that’s what I’m trying to get at.

What exactly do you mean by “relationship with Christ”? That’s an incredibly relative phrase. Protestants usually use it to mean reading the Bible, praying a lot and just generally thinking about God a good portion of the time. However, the Catholic Church teaches that upon Baptism you actually enter into the family of God, as part of the Church, His Bride, you are wed to Christ and you become a true child of God. I do not think a relationship can get any closer than that. Furthermore, the Church offers the Eucharist. There is no possible way to be closer to Christ than to partake of His Body and Blood. Protestantism can offer nothing like this.

I would ask you why you think following God should be simple? He is not simple. He is more huge, more complex, more… just more than we can possibly imagine. And He made us complex beings living in a complex world. If He wanted things to be simple, He would never have given us free will. But he did give us that gift to choose between truth and falsehood, between Him and ourselves. Jesus’ message can truly be summed up by “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” The hard part is us. We are the ones constantly resisting His will and His truth. We have invented a myriad of situations in which we test God and try to find out just how far he’ll let us go. We’re rebellious children who constantly need our boundaries clarified. The positive to that is that the more we push the more we learn about Him. And the more we learn about Him the closer we can be to Him.

Your post reminds me of something that I once heard some RCIA instructors say. “The Church isn’t here to put up roadblocks.” Actually, the Church does put up roadblocks and thank God it does! Because roadblocks aren’t there just to inconvenience you. They are there to protect you. If there’s something dangerous up ahead, I want it to be blocked off! I don’t want to go over a cliff because I thought the “Danger” sign was just an unnecessary obstacle between me and my destination.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Actually, it’s that no matter how hard you try, you are keeping you from getting it right. It’s called sin.

Imagine living in Old Testament times.

What exactly do you mean by “relationship with Christ”? That’s an incredibly relative phrase. Protestants usually use it to mean reading the Bible, praying a lot and just generally thinking about God a good portion of the time. However, the Catholic Church teaches that upon Baptism you actually enter into the family of God, as part of the Church, His Bride, you are wed to Christ and you become a true child of God. I do not think a relationship can get any closer than that. Furthermore, the Church offers the Eucharist. There is no possible way to be closer to Christ than to partake of His Body and Blood. Protestantism can offer nothing like this.

Now, you are assuming that’s what protestants mean by a relationship with Christ. No. It means entering into a relationship as a child of God with Jesus as Savior just like it means for you as a Catholic. Don’t you think protestants believe we are children of God and wed to Christ? Christ is present in many forms in our lives, not just in the Eucharist. For me, the Holy Spirit dwells in me - God’s presence is always there, not just in a once a day or once a week meal.

I would ask you why you think following God should be simple? He is not simple. He is more huge, more complex, more… just more than we can possibly imagine. And He made us complex beings living in a complex world. If He wanted things to be simple, He would never have given us free will. But he did give us that gift to choose between truth and falsehood, between Him and ourselves. Jesus’ message can truly be summed up by “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” The hard part is us. We are the ones constantly resisting His will and His truth. We have invented a myriad of situations in which we test God and try to find out just how far he’ll let us go. We’re rebellious children who constantly need our boundaries clarified. The positive to that is that the more we push the more we learn about Him. And the more we learn about Him the closer we can be to Him.

God is not simple, I agree. But following Him is simple as far as the process. Love the Lord with all you have and love your neighbor as yourself. It’s not complicated. As you said, the hard part is our impulse to sin. Free will is simple - it is you who think it’s complicated. Follow God to the best of your ability. Don’t follow the ways of the world. Simple. Accept Christ - reject evil. Why should it be more complicated than that?

Your post reminds me of something that I once heard some RCIA instructors say. “The Church isn’t here to put up roadblocks.” Actually, the Church does put up roadblocks and thank God it does! Because roadblocks aren’t there just to inconvenience you. They are there to protect you. If there’s something dangerous up ahead, I want it to be blocked off! I don’t want to go over a cliff because I thought the “Danger” sign was just an unnecessary obstacle between me and my destination.

We were all born with the knowledge of good and evil. Even as children we know the difference. We have the Bible, parents, teachers, police and church leaders to guide us till we have a formed conscience. But, that’s different than having “roadblocks”. Through my experiences to date, I have come to realize that life really is simple. It’s humans that make it complicated, not God.

Peace…

MW

 

[peary]

Now, you are assuming that’s what protestants mean by a relationship with Christ. No. It means entering into a relationship as a child of God with Jesus as Savior just like it means for you as a Catholic. Don’t you think protestants believe we are children of God and wed to Christ? Christ is present in many forms in our lives, not just in the Eucharist. For me, the Holy Spirit dwells in me - God’s presence is always there, not just in a once a day or once a week meal.

Yes, you are correct in saying that, in protestant terms, entering a relationship with Christ means accepting Christ as one’s personal Lord and Savior, but the Catholic Christian understanding goes farther than that: that through Baptism, one is not only cleansed of the stain of original sin, and that one’s soul is infused with God’s sanctifying grace, but that one also directly enters into the family of God.

God is not simple, I agree. But following Him is simple as far as the process. Love the Lord with all you have and love your neighbor as yourself. It’s not complicated. As you said, the hard part is our impulse to sin. Free will is simple - it is you who think it’s complicated. Follow God to the best of your ability. Don’t follow the ways of the world. Simple. Accept Christ - reject evil. Why should it be more complicated than that?

That’s not what the Bible says. Jesus said that He did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. You cannot love others unless you have the love of Jesus in yourself through His grace. Executing that is what is hard, although it sounds simple.

We were all born with the knowledge of good and evil. Even as children we know the difference. We have the Bible, parents, teachers, police and church leaders to guide us till we have a formed conscience. But, that’s different than having “roadblocks”. Through my experiences to date, I have come to realize that life really is simple. It’s humans that make it complicated, not God.

We are NOT born with the knowledge of good and evil. Nowhere in the Bible is that stated. Babies are not aware of anything but gradually acquire recognition of their physical needs and then learning to love those who nurture them - their parents and family. Children do not know the difference; that is why we are the ones who have the responsibility of teaching them the Faith as well as moral character. Neither is inherent. Acquiring an “informed” conscience can sometimes be a lifetime journey. It doesn’t happen all of a sudden when you wake up in the morning one day. And an ‘informed’ conscience is one based on full knowledge of the Faith and what the Church teaches, and weighing one’s decision on a matter with that. Don’t confuse simplicity with gullibility.

Peace…

MW

 

[wisdomseeker]

A relationship with Christ is key to being a Christian and I think most would agree on that.
What if that relationship leads you away from the CC? I’ve been doing alot of bible reading lately and taken focus off of particular types of religion (I use Catholicism here because I was born and raised Catholic and that’s all I know). From reading the Bible, the message of salvation seems simple and not as impossible as the CC portrays it to be. I feel like the CC makes it seem like no one is ever going to get to heaven because nothing is ever good enough, you know?
Does anyone else feel this way or am I talking to the wrong crowd?

What do you mean by having a relationship with Christ? if not by obeying Him and all He commanded us to do? we should never forget what He went through for us His sufferings and pain. I undersstand we want it very easy, simple life, we want to make up our own gods, but is it what is true for God? how are we to be set apart from the world if we act just like the world? we are to be different by doing the way of the Lord. what we do, works of mercy, Sacraments and etc… is not for salvation but it is for our own good that the world may see us and give Glory to God. also remember that Jesus said: I will build my Church, this Church is to keep us apart from the world, to gather His faithfull from all parts of the world. there is a reason for that we must trust in Jesus. we dont know everything and to assume we do is arrogant. if you think we have it hard, think of the people of Israel that had so much more rules and laws to obey. God knows all, we dont, but we must obey Him if we want to have a relationship with Him. just believe on the person alone is not enough. Jesus Himself said " not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven." we also must believe everything He said and told us to do. we also must believe in the Church He built for it is this Church that He entrusted with His word and Truth to evangelize the world it is through the catholic church that a person will know the True Christ and our God. in today’s world we hear to many voices, to many different versions of hte truth, today we must be more careful than ever before, who we ought ot listen to. should we abandon the Ancient to a more modern version of the truth? Jesus said: " Will I find any faith when I return?" today more than ever we need to be zelous of our catholic faith. for is this Church which Jesus built that we need to support for Jesus sake. God forbid that i should ever offend Him in this way. My unbelief in His Church surelly will offend my Lord.

Prayng for you. God bless you.

 

[whizkid43]

Mrs Abbott,

I fully understand what you are talking about, please humor me for this post.

I was born and raised Catholic, Catholic camp from ages 9-11 years old. Catholic Schools from 6th grade through senior year and high school. Was never really super into my faith and after I got married my home parish was pretty dead.

Me, wife and kids left the Catholic Church. Kinda felt the same way as you and through some kid activities a couple came into our lives and gave us a hard self for an Evangelical Church. You know the type, they are everywhere these days, modern music, little skits, etc, “fellowship”. It was great, for a while, but then the novelty wore off…

What I found (and what a number of other people on this board and in my life have found) the only way to receive the fullness of the Christian faith is in the Catholic Church.

The grass always looks greener on the side I could also point you to some articles that show the Evangelical or “seeker friendly” crowd also feels like they are missing something. The something, IMO, is the sacraments and fullness which is provided within the Catholic Church. I speak from my own personal experience.

I would be happy to share more info and will pray for you.

God bless

 

[Verita]

Now, you are assuming that’s what protestants mean by a relationship with Christ. No. It means entering into a relationship as a child of God with Jesus as Savior just like it means for you as a Catholic. Don’t you think protestants believe we are children of God and wed to Christ? Christ is present in many forms in our lives, not just in the Eucharist. For me, the Holy Spirit dwells in me - God’s presence is always there, not just in a once a day or once a week meal.

Actually, no, I’m not assuming. I was a protestant, of the non denominational persuasion, for all of my life until recently. And notice that I didn’t say the Eucharist was the only way to be close to Christ. I merely maintain that without a doubt if what the Catholic Church teaches about it is true, there is no way to be closer to Him than by taking him physically into your body. Shouldn’t we strive to be close to Him in every way, and most especially in the way that He provided to us through the Church?

God is not simple, I agree. But following Him is simple as far as the process. Love the Lord with all you have and love your neighbor as yourself. It’s not complicated. As you said, the hard part is our impulse to sin. Free will is simple - it is you who think it’s complicated. Follow God to the best of your ability. Don’t follow the ways of the world. Simple. Accept Christ - reject evil. Why should it be more complicated than that?

Actually, the Bible never says “follow God to the best of your ability”. Jesus gives very specific instructions for what we are supposed to do and not do as do the other NT writers. When asked what must we do to enter the kingdom of Heaven his first response is to follow the commandments. In Matthew he speaks specifically about acts of mercy that are necessary for salvation. Having free will is in no way simple. It means that in every situation we encounter throughout every day we have to choose between right and wrong. We do need a guide to help us to see what is right and wrong in many situations that the Bible never touches on.

We were all born with the knowledge of good and evil. Even as children we know the difference. We have the Bible, parents, teachers, police and church leaders to guide us till we have a formed conscience. But, that’s different than having “roadblocks”. Through my experiences to date, I have come to realize that life really is simple. It’s humans that make it complicated, not God.

No, we are not born with the knowledge of good and evil. I have children and I have to instruct them daily, often repeatedly, about what is right and wrong. It’s astounding how many times my daughter needs to be told that certain things are wrong, even if she thinks they are fun. And we need the Church for the same reason. Jesus set up the Church for this very reason! He is the one who describes the Church’s role in settling disputes. He knew there would be dispute and dissension and heresy. He came to proclaim the truth and he formed the Church to maintain that truth because it’s important.

Honestly, I’m stumped by your insistence that life really is simple. You must never read your medical bills.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Actually, no, I’m not assuming. I was a protestant, of the non denominational persuasion, for all of my life until recently. And notice that I didn’t say the Eucharist was the only way to be close to Christ. I merely maintain that without a doubt if what the Catholic Church teaches about it is true, there is no way to be closer to Him than by taking him physically into your body. Shouldn’t we strive to be close to Him in every way, and most especially in the way that He provided to us through the Church?

You provided an idea of a protestant’s relationship with Christ that is not consistent with reality. I don’t care if you were protestant or not. Your catechism was lacking.

Actually, the Bible never says “follow God to the best of your ability”. Jesus gives very specific instructions for what we are supposed to do and not do as do the other NT writers. When asked what must we do to enter the kingdom of Heaven his first response is to follow the commandments. In Matthew he speaks specifically about acts of mercy that are necessary for salvation. Having free will is in no way simple. It means that in every situation we encounter throughout every day we have to choose between right and wrong. We do need a guide to help us to see what is right and wrong in many situations that the Bible never touches on.

Now you are claiming that since it’s “not in the Bible” (which I deny) that it’s not true. I thought you were big on Tradition? The Bible never says “Don’t smoke” either. It doesn’t have the word “Trinity” either, that doesn’t make the principle null and void. Really

If you think it’s complicated, be my guest. Just because you think it is doesn’t mean that’s true. I totally reject that entering the Kingdom of Heaven is difficult. God gave simple commands for us to follow. They ARE simple. Just because you fail doesn’t mean it’s His fault and it doesn’t mean the way is difficult. Of course we have to daily choose right and wrong. The way is simple - choose right or wrong. The follow through by us is what’s difficult. Again, the way is simple that God provided. Our evil impulse is where we have problems.

No, we are not born with the knowledge of good and evil. I have children and I have to instruct them daily, often repeatedly, about what is right and wrong. It’s astounding how many times my daughter needs to be told that certain things are wrong, even if she thinks they are fun. And we need the Church for the same reason. Jesus set up the Church for this very reason! He is the one who describes the Church’s role in settling disputes. He knew there would be dispute and dissension and heresy. He came to proclaim the truth and he formed the Church to maintain that truth because it’s important.

Since we are the seed of Adam, we DO have the knowledge of good and evil. That’s basic Christian theology. It was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, remember? Even 2 and 3 year olds know good and bad. Their parents tell them no. They know they should obey, but they rebel against that and do it anyway. That is free will. That is knowledge of good and evil or right and wrong.

Of course, I also have to lead my children on the right path. What I am saying is that even at a young age, when children are given commands to follow, their evil impulse is something they have to fight. That is the knowledge of good and evil.

Honestly, I’m stumped by your insistence that life really is simple. You must never read your medical bills.

After my experiences in life that you have no idea about, I’ve concluded that the Christian faith is really very simple. It’s not easy to follow, but the commandments and guidance from God is very simple in principle. If life is too difficult, you have made it that way. It’s not God’s fault.

Unfortunately, I do read the medical bills. Unfortunately, I’ve seen abuse, physical, verbal and sexual. Unfortunately, I’ve seen evil face to face. Unfortunately, I’ve seen drugs and disease destroy the ones I love. So what? That has led me to understand that life is indeed simple. The life that God created is simple. It’s us silly humans who cause the problems. You want to learn more? Read my blogs.

I would suggest you get off your soap box of complexity and burdening of people with just how terrible life is and read the book of 2 Esdras. You will be enlightened. You don’t understand the things of God. Neither did Ezra. Good read.

Peace…

MW

 

[blessedtoo]

A relationship with Christ is key to being a Christian and I think most would agree on that.
What if that relationship leads you away from the CC? I’ve been doing alot of bible reading lately and taken focus off of particular types of religion (I use Catholicism here because I was born and raised Catholic and that’s all I know). From reading the Bible, the message of salvation seems simple and not as impossible as the CC portrays it to be. I feel like the CC makes it seem like no one is ever going to get to heaven because nothing is ever good enough, you know?
Does anyone else feel this way or am I talking to the wrong crowd?

mrs_abbott, if memory serves me, you’ve struggled for some time with the teachings of the Church, especially with regard to moral issues. I admire your tenacity in seeking the truth and encourage you to continue posting your thoughts and questions here on CAF. Even though your private study may be leading you away from the Church, your continued presence here is a sign that you are not comfortable with that outcome.

My experience, after 30 years away from the Church and five years back, is that our relationship with Christ is compromised to some extent as long as we continue to fight with the truth of His Church. Sin is the obstacle to full communion with God and the connection you are describing. However, even with the most pious of saints (Mother Theresa), that “good feeling” of being one with Christ is not constantly present. I consider it a consolation from God, not an entitlement. True faith occurs even in the absence of “good feelings”. There are many, many days when I feel the emptiness of being a human being who is yearning to see, feel, and be with God. My faith in Him must not waver in these times and my consolation must come from His promises, elucidated through the Bible and His Church.

The lives of the saints are great role models to go by but they seem few and far between now and they lived in different times than we do now. I guess it just seems like no matter how hard you would try, there would always be something keeping you from getting it right. It just seems like there are so many rules and teachings that it’s impossible to keep up with them all.

In our own times we have saints to look to for inspiration. John Paul II, currently in the process of beatification, was, IMO, one of the happiest, most fulfilled and joyous human beings when he was present with us on earth. I believe this was part of his amazing charisma which drew the adoration and love of all. Mother Theresa, who was plagued with a darkness I pray none of us ever have to experience, was also a vision of joy and peace. These two examples of people who lived the teachings of our Church are not so abstract or far removed that we can not strive to emulate, at the very least, their way of moving in this life.

One can become caught in the minutiae of legalism regarding matters that are not binding on us as Catholics. A quick glance at some of the thread titles here on CAF is a clear indication of this. The truth, as I see it, is that our Church allows us great freedom on many, many matters that may not effect our present or eternal lives. But Her job, as it were, is to help us attain salvation, not insure a softer, easier feel good life here on this earth. One could make the argument that those who fully accept Church teaching on matters of grave importance are indeed the most joyfilled and peaceful. One could argue that obedience, the example of which was set by the Savior Himself, is the only true route to peace and true communion with God. The Father asked of His Son much more than is ever required of us and unto His death He obeyed.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Yes, you are correct in saying that, in protestant terms, entering a relationship with Christ means accepting Christ as one’s personal Lord and Savior, but the Catholic Christian understanding goes farther than that: that through Baptism, one is not only cleansed of the stain of original sin, and that one’s soul is infused with God’s sanctifying grace, but that one also directly enters into the family of God.

I personally believe baptism cleanses one of the stain of original sin and that it is the entry into the family of God. So, you are preaching to the choir.

That’s not what the Bible says. Jesus said that He did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it. You cannot love others unless you have the love of Jesus in yourself through His grace. Executing that is what is hard, although it sounds simple.

I don’t understand the argument. I don’t disagree.

We are NOT born with the knowledge of good and evil. Nowhere in the Bible is that stated. Babies are not aware of anything but gradually acquire recognition of their physical needs and then learning to love those who nurture them - their parents and family. Children do not know the difference; that is why we are the ones who have the responsibility of teaching them the Faith as well as moral character. Neither is inherent. Acquiring an “informed” conscience can sometimes be a lifetime journey. It doesn’t happen all of a sudden when you wake up in the morning one day. And an ‘informed’ conscience is one based on full knowledge of the Faith and what the Church teaches, and weighing one’s decision on a matter with that. Don’t confuse simplicity with gullibility.

LOL, you have the same problem as the other poster who said this. Yes, it’s pretty plain, right there in Genesis and ALL through the NT. Basic Christian theology. Remember the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Good. Now, since we are the seed of Adam we also have that knowledge. You wouldn’t say that we don’t know right from wrong unless parents teach you, do you?

Yes, children know the difference. You tell them no (even at 2 years old) not to do something. They have a choice at birth of whether to obey or rebel. It is inherent. The seed is there. It is when they grow older that it becomes stronger, selfishness sets in, commands are given, they either obey or rebel against the law - your law.

I don’t have to teach my kid to respect people of other colors or nationalities. We parents teach them to hate or love those who are different. When they choose playmates even at a young age, they don’t understand their playing with an Asian person or a black person, etc. Those are concepts created by adults. It is our bigotry and bad example that they learn.

You are confusing deep truths of faith with my discussion of VALUES, such as hate, love, giving, selfishness, etc. Of course our children aren’t going to understand justification, reconciliation and other truths. We have to teach them those things. But it doesn’t take a fully formed conscience (as you put it) to understand right and wrong, good and evil.

It’s ridiculous to continue in this line of thinking anyway. The thread is about relationship with Christ, not about child psychology and child development.

Let me tell you: life is simple. There are two forces at work. There is light and there is darkness, as attested to all through the Bible. It’s about choosing right and wrong. It’s about God and the devil. It’s about opposites, what I call the teaching of duality. As I told another poster, read the book of 2 Esdras. There were 7 visions that Ezra (Shealtiel) had. He spoke to the Archangel Uriel and Jeremiel.

It’s there in your Catholic Bible. Yes, I have one. I read it often.

Peace…

MW

 

[peary]

LOL, you have the same problem as the other poster who said this. Yes, it’s pretty plain, right there in Genesis and ALL through the NT. Basic Christian theology. Remember the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Good. Now, since we are the seed of Adam we also have that knowledge. You wouldn’t say that we don’t know right from wrong unless parents teach you, do you?

Yes, I do, and that’s standard with generations of families.

Yes, children know the difference. You tell them no (even at 2
years old) not to do something. They have a choice at birth of whether to obey or rebel. It is inherent. The seed is there. It is when they grow older that it becomes stronger, selfishness sets in, commands are given, they either obey or rebel against the law - your law.

I can see you are a ‘product’ of our contemporary age: no consequences. It’s all about ‘choice.’

I don’t have to teach my kid to respect people of other colors or nationalities. We parents teach them to hate or love those who are different. When they choose playmates even at a young age, they don’t understand their playing with an Asian person or a black person, etc. Those are concepts created by adults. It is our bigotry and bad example that they learn.

Didn’t you just contradict yourself??

You are confusing deep truths of faith with my discussion of VALUES, such as hate, love, giving, selfishness, etc. Of course our children aren’t going to understand justification, reconciliation and other truths. We have to teach them those things. But it doesn’t take a fully formed conscience (as you put it) to understand right and wrong, good and evil.

It’s ridiculous to continue in this line of thinking anyway. The thread is about relationship with Christ, not about child psychology and child development.

Let me tell you: life is simple. There are two forces at work. There is light and there is darkness, as attested to all through the Bible. It’s about choosing right and wrong. It’s about God and the devil. It’s about opposites, what I call the teaching of duality. As I told another poster, read the book of 2 Esdras. There were 7 visions that Ezra (Shealtiel) had. He spoke to the Archangel Uriel and Jeremiel.It’s there in your Catholic Bible. Yes, I have one. I read it often.

Glad you feel the need to tell me what I need to know and settle the question. :tsktsk:

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Glad you feel the need to tell me what I need to know and settle the question. :tsktsk:

As you and everyone else does. Just my opinion. You can take or leave it. I don’t feel the need to justify my posts and my behavior to you.

Peace…

MW

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Yes, I do, and that’s standard with generations of families.

Then I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. I’m not a child psychologist, so you could be right. My experience tells me otherwise.

I can see you are a ‘product’ of our contemporary age: no consequences. It’s all about ‘choice.’

Of course there are consequences. You reap what you sow. I don’t see how I gave you that impression.

Didn’t you just contradict yourself??

I could have. I don’t think I did. But, I get a lot of thoughts that come my way and sometimes don’t know how to express myself. I’m human and make mistakes, so it is possible.

Peace…

MW

 

[peary]

As you and everyone else does. Just my opinion. You can take or leave it. I don’t feel the need to justify my posts and my behavior to you.MW

I certainly wouldn’t want you teaching MY children about the Church, or God, or anything, for that matter, not with the attitude you display in here.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

I certainly wouldn’t want you teaching MY children about the Church, or God, or anything, for that matter, not with the attitude you display in here.

No, you wouldn’t. Because I wouldn’t teach them what you teach them and I’m sure you wouldn’t be too happy. Your interpretation of my conduct is of no consequence to me. I tell people what I feel they need to hear. Anything less is being dishonest.

Peace…

MW

 

[peary]

No, you wouldn’t. Because I wouldn’t teach them what you teach them and I’m sure you wouldn’t be too happy. Your interpretation of my conduct is of no consequence to me. I tell people what I feel they need to hear. Anything less is being dishonest.

Peace…

MW

Yeah, at what emotional price, except your own personal emotional satisfaction…?

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Yeah, at what emotional price, except your own personal emotional satisfaction…?

I get no satisfaction from telling people what I feel they need to hear, except that I will have at least been honest with them instead of faking niceties. If you knew me outside this caricature of a life found in the forums who I am, you might think differently. Take a look at my blogs. I enjoy helping people, but I don’t mince words.

Addition: if I have emotionally upset you to the point of causing ill feelings, then I certainly apologize. I consider you a brother in Christ and would never want to offend you to the point that I have sinned.

Peace…

MW

 

[mrs_abbott]

I, for one, know exactly what you mean. In the past year, year and a half I had started having a really hard time with all the legalities. Reading this forum was actually what got me started. It just all seems so complicated when Jesus’s message is really pretty straight forward. I don’t think we needs a library of books to explain His message. He was pretty clear. And all the “who has authority”, etc. seems to have separated me from Him. Now when I think of the Church I get a mental picture of popes, not Christ.

Can I ask you something? Are you still a practicing Catholic? Have you ever thought about or gone to another church (non-Catholic)?
If you don’t want to answer here, please pm me because I am interested in learning more because you sound like you know what I’m feeling.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Also, I do not think you are reading the bible correctly if you think that the message of salvation is so easy.

I never said it was easy. It just seems more attainable when I read the bible than when I hear the CC’s rules and regulations to get to heaven. Not trying to be mean, it’s just how I understand it to be.
The message in the bible to love another as Christ has loved us is TOUGH! He died for our sins and he didn’t even know us. I don’t think any of us would die for a complete stranger. I know I wouldn’t, willingly. But that’s how much he loved us and I don’t know if I could ever love another as Christ has loved me. It’s definitely something to aspire to and work on for the rest of my days on this earth.

 

[mrs_abbott]

Have you been going to a non-Catholic Bible study or have you been attending non-Catholic church services? It sounds like it from what you have written. I just don’t think this is an idea anyone would get from picking up the Bible and reading it on his or her own. Did a non-Catholic Christian lead you down the “Roman Road”?
contenderministries.org/romanroad.php

Let’s face it, the “Roman Road” is a definite manipulation of Scripture–taking several verses out of context, then stringing them together to try to get Scripture to say something that it doesn’t say.

The bible speaks of knowing, loving and serving Christ. How could you say otherwise? You can get that from reading the Bible on your own. You don’t need the CC to interpret that for you. It’s pretty cut and dry.