A response from a pastor i got

[Daniel_Marsh]

The Pastor setting up a sales pitch for I Thess 5:21 prove all things, hold to that which true. Basically, his claim that LDS authority and Catholic authority is equal is false. Why? you ask.

Isaiah 43:10 “before me was no god formed, nor will there be after me”

The LDS authority is derived from a false god, who once was a man, then exhaulted into godhood. The Christian God, has no beginning, nor does he have an end. Each LDS god had a begining.

 

[NotWorthy]

malachi_a_serva:

Hello NotWorthy

For the record, I no longer hold on to the “wine” is “grape juice” theory…I was weak in my belief to start out with…then after being put through the ringer here…how could I?

I do get your point and hense…my continued journey.

You’ve been fun to watch over the last 4 months. And once again, I apologize for some remarks I made on one of your first threads. I guess since I threw a flag on you, I can take the flag back and declare “there was no foul on the play” (except, of course, on my part!).

Good Luck on your journey!

Notworthy

 

[NotWorthy]

Daniel Marsh:

Hi NotWorthy, I think you are thinking of Gal 1:6-8.

Yes, exactly. In the words of Drew Carry, “1000 pts. for you!”
Daniel Marsh:

A LDS can use III Nephi 28 where the Apostle John will not die until the second coming to claim “apolstolic” session.

OK, you lost me on that one.

Notworthy

 

[Nicene]

awfulthings9:

I think that’s her point. They are different things, so where Christ still has the keys to death and Hades, the keys to the kingdom are apprently missing … until, that is, one remembers that he entrusted them to the leaders on earth. Her point is that, should someone claim that the apostolic “leadership” of the church ended with the last apostle, why are the keys still “missing” in heaven. The answer is, Christ has left them in the care of his church until the end of time. Right?

Wow. Brilliant argument. That’s never occured to me.

Correct.

However one minor point of correction: I think my wife would be highly disappointed to discover I have been a woman the whole time.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[malachi_a_serva]

NotWorthy:

You’ve been fun to watch over the last 4 months. And once again, I apologize for some remarks I made on one of your first threads. I guess since I threw a flag on you, I can take the flag back and declare “there was no foul on the play” (except, of course, on my part!).

Good Luck on your journey!

Notworthy

Yes, I even amuse myself. I was told by another poster that I have been “three (3)” different Malachis…and I don’t think he was too far off. Sometimes the Fundamental in me gets going…other times…not.

I have learnt allot, some I knew, some became more in depth,…still others…to come.



I do enjoy the in-depth perspective here for sure.

 

[Georgess]

…

Mary vs. all have sinned…(quote)

While not very familiar with the many theological arguments in favor of Bl. Mother being sinless, the verse from St. Peter who affectionately warn believers about the possibilty of St. Paul’s words being distorted ( by the’ ignorant’.)…- ? meaning those who do not look upto Mother Church, ‘the pillar and foundation of truth’ seem like a ‘biblical answer’ …

The angelic salutation to Bl. Mother - ’ filled with grace’ - in one sense ,is truly amazing , when we consider that Adam and Eve, also created in sinless state , yet as far as we know , one temptaion is all it took …

And here is Bl.Mother, (atleast in her teens ,at the time of the Annunciation ) - to have kept the purity and grace from the moment of conception , to have remained worthy, to be The Ark …who in that sinless state could sense the enormity of the gap between the creature and the creator - and talk of the 'lowliness of the handmaid ’ …

 

[Lorarose]

The Mormon boys paid me a visit.
They did NOT claim they had apostolic succession.
They claimed there was a great apostasy, and that it was not until Joseph Smith received his revelation from God that the priesthood was restored.

Putting us in the same boat with the Mormons doesn’t fly.

Besides, even IF the Mormons did claim succession - history clearly disproves it.
History supports the Catholic claim to succession.

 

[NotWorthy]

Lorarose:

The Mormon boys paid me a visit.
They did NOT claim they had apostolic succession.
They claimed there was a great apostasy, and that it was not until Joseph Smith received his revelation from God that the priesthood was restored.

Putting us in the same boat with the Mormons doesn’t fly.

Besides, even IF the Mormons did claim succession - history clearly disproves it.
History supports the Catholic claim to succession.

Please tell me you asked them to explain Galatians 1:8 “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!”
Please, please, please!!!

Notworthy

 

[Lorarose]

Please tell me you asked them to explain Galatians 1:8 “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!”
Please, please, please!!!

Notworthy

I don’t think I used that one…sorry

I asked them “have you heard of Polycarp?” “Ignatius?” “Ireneus?”

Knowing their answer would be “no”

And I said “that’s too bad no one taught you about them - they were christians from the first generations of the Church. There was no apostacy - the priesthood never died out, and you can still read the many writings they left behind.”

So I gave them a website with the Early Fathers writings hoping they might get more curious about this supposed apostacy.

 

[NotWorthy]

Lorarose:

I don’t think I used that one…sorry

I asked them “have you heard of Polycarp?” “Ignatius?” “Ireneus?”

Knowing their answer would be “no”

And I said “that’s too bad no one taught you about them - they were christians from the first generations of the Church. There was no apostacy - the priesthood never died out, and you can still read the many writings they left behind.”

So I gave them a website with the Early Fathers writings hoping they might get more curious about this supposed apostacy.

I may be mistaken, but they are not allowed to read anything you give them that’s not approved by their pastors (and they chastise our Magisterium???). It may be some other faith, though.

In any event, since you showed them your strength in your faith, I doubt if they’ll show up at your front door anymore.

“It’s far easier to pick the low-hanging fruit”.

Notworthy

 

[Lazerlike42]

Point out that Ignatius literally knew Peter and John, and learned directly from them, that Polycarp literally knew John, and learned things directly from Him. That Irenaeus lived at the same time as the Apostles. That Clement of Rome learned straight from Peter and Paul…

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Question: Where is the Apostle John and the three witnesses today? If they are still on earth, than apostasy is impossible because a living apostle is present on earth. If they are not alive today and on earth, then the follow passage from the Book of Mormon is in error.

THIRD NEPHI
THE BOOK OF NEPHI
THE SON OF NEPHI, WHO WAS THE SON OF HELAMAN

CHAPTER 28

5 And they sorrowed in their hearts, for they durst not speak unto him the thing which they desired.

6 And he said unto them: Behold, I aknow• your thoughts, and ye have desired the thing which bJohn•, my beloved, who was with me in my ministry, before that I was lifted up by the Jews, desired of me.

7 Therefore, more blessed are ye, for ye shall anever• taste of bdeath•; but ye shall live to behold all the doings of the Father unto the children of men, even until all things shall be fulfilled according to the will of the Father, when I shall come in my glory with the cpowers• of heaven.

8 And ye shall never endure the pains of death; but when I shall come in my glory ye shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye from amortality• to bimmortality; and then shall ye be blessed in the kingdom of my Father.

9 And again, ye shall not have pain while ye shall dwell in the flesh, neither sorrow save it be for the asins• of the world; and all this will I do because of the thing which ye have desired of me, for ye have desired that ye might bbring• the souls of men unto me, while the world shall stand.

10 And for this cause ye shall have afulness• of joy; and ye shall sit down in the kingdom of my Father; yea, your joy shall be full, even as the Father hath given me fulness of joy; and ye shall be even as I am, and I am even as the Father; and the Father and I are bone•;

11 And the aHoly• Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and the Father giveth the Holy Ghost unto the children of men, because of me.

12 And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words, he touched every one of them with his finger save it were the athree• who were to tarry, and then he departed.

13 And behold, the heavens were opened, and they were acaught• up into heaven, and saw and heard unspeakable things.
…

15 And whether they were in the body or out of the body, they could not tell; for it did seem unto them like a atransfiguration• of them, that they were changed from this body of flesh into an immortal state, that they could behold the things of God.

16 But it came to pass that they did again minister upon the face of the earth; nevertheless they did not minister of the things which they had heard and seen, because of the commandment which was given them in heaven.

17 And now, whether they were mortal or immortal, from the day of their transfiguration, I know not;
…

21 And thrice they were cast into a afurnace• and received no harm.

22 And twice were they cast into a aden• of wild beasts; and behold they did play with the beasts as a child with a suckling lamb, and received no harm.

23 And it came to pass that thus they did go forth among all the people of Nephi, and did preach the agospel of Christ unto all people upon the face of the land; and they were converted unto the Lord, and were united unto the church of Christ, and thus the people of bthat• generation were blessed, according to the word of Jesus.
…

25 Behold, I was about to write the anames• of those who were never to taste of death, but the Lord forbade; therefore I write them not, for they are hid from the world.

26 But behold, aI• have seen them, and they have ministered unto me.

27 And behold they will be aamong• the Gentiles, and the Gentiles shall know them not.

28 They will also be among the Jews, and the Jews shall know them not.

29 And it shall come to pass, when the Lord seeth fit in his wisdom that they shall minister unto all the ascattered tribes of Israel, and unto all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, and shall bring out of them unto Jesus many souls, that their desire may be fulfilled, and also because of the convincing power of God which is in them.
…

40 And in this state they were to remain until the judgment day of Christ; and at that day they were to receive a greater change, and to be received into the kingdom of the Father to go no more out, but to dwell with God eternally in the heavens.

scriptures.lds.org/3_ne/28