A Roman Catholic Who finds out their Jewish

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I was just reading about former Secretary of State Madeline Albright finding out she is of Jewish ancestry. If a person is raised Roman Catholic and does all the steps to become Catholic then later finds out they are Jewish does the fact that they are Jewish change anything as far as being Roman Catholic? I don’t think so, but I’m just curious if I’m right.
 
Not really. If Ms. Albright was baptized than she is still a catholic, even if ethnically jewish.
 
I’m Jewish and I’m Catholic. There are many of us throughout the history of the Church, starting with the Apostles and the Blessed Mother.

One does not cease to be Catholic, because one is of Jewish birth. If one is born to a Jewish mother, one continues to be Jewish, regardless of whether one is in schism with Judaism. What’s even more interesting is that the Catholic Church has never asked conversi (Jewish converts) to deny their Jewish faith or Jewish roots.

This is one of those crazy things that people read incorrectly into the Council of Florence and other decrees concerning Judaism. The Church does not deny Judaism or its divine origin. What the Church was addressing was the conversion from Catholic to other: Jewish, heretic, Orthodox, Muslim, etc. She was speaking to Catholics, not to non-Catholics.

Bl. John Paul and Pope Benedict have tried to make this very clear, but too many people refuse to accept this. What can you do? Nothing.

A Catholic who is a Jew is properly known as a Hebrew Catholic, just as one who is Irish is known as an Irish Catholic and so forth.

With the rise of traditionalism there has been a certain degree of antisemitism that has creeped into some circles. It would be unfair to say all of Traddom. There has always been a strong anti-Semitic tone in Fundamentalist Protestantism.

Hebrew Catholics always felt safe within the Catholic Church. We could attend mass, receive the sacraments, become priests, sisters and brothers and do whatever other Catholics do while at the same time sitting with our family for Passover, praying for atonement at Yom Kippur, celebrating the new year with our Jewish relatives at Rosh Hashanah, attend Bar Mitzvahs, or even attend the temple on high holy days with our parents who may be Jewish. In some sectors of the Catholic world, NOT MANY (thank God), we’ve come under attack. As a result the Association of Hebrew Catholics has grown to be quite large. It is a space where we can be Catholic and preserve our Jewish roots without complications.

Association of Hebrew Catholics

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
I’m Jewish and I’m Catholic. There are many of us throughout the history of the Church, starting with the Apostles and the Blessed Mother.

One does not cease to be Catholic, because one is of Jewish birth. If one is born to a Jewish mother, one continues to be Jewish, regardless of whether one is in schism with Judaism. What’s even more interesting is that the Catholic Church has never asked conversi (Jewish converts) to deny their Jewish faith or Jewish roots.

This is one of those crazy things that people read incorrectly into the Council of Florence and other decrees concerning Judaism. The Church does not deny Judaism or its divine origin. What the Church was addressing was the conversion from Catholic to other: Jewish, heretic, Orthodox, Muslim, etc. She was speaking to Catholics, not to non-Catholics.

Bl. John Paul and Pope Benedict have tried to make this very clear, but too many people refuse to accept this. What can you do? Nothing.

A Catholic who is a Jew is properly known as a Hebrew Catholic, just as one who is Irish is known as an Irish Catholic and so forth.

With the rise of traditionalism there has been a certain degree of antisemitism that has creeped into some circles. It would be unfair to say all of Traddom. There has always been a strong anti-Semitic tone in Fundamentalist Protestantism.

Hebrew Catholics always felt safe within the Catholic Church. We could attend mass, receive the sacraments, become priests, sisters and brothers and do whatever other Catholics do while at the same time sitting with our family for Passover, praying for atonement at Yom Kippur, celebrating the new year with our Jewish relatives at Rosh Hashanah, attend Bar Mitzvahs, or even attend the temple on high holy days with our parents who may be Jewish. In some sectors of the Catholic world, NOT MANY (thank God), we’ve come under attack. As a result the Association of Hebrew Catholics has grown to be quite large. It is a space where we can be Catholic and preserve our Jewish roots without complications.

Association of Hebrew Catholics

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
Actually, I have a question… I’m hoping you can answer as you seem to know a lot…

The Old Law is not binding on Gentile Catholics (that is, you don’t have to be Jewish to be Catholic - kosher, circumcision, etc. are not binding to Catholics)
But are Hebrew Catholics supposed to follow that law, and why?

That might sound like an odd question, but I’ve been wondering it… Is it something like since the New Law is the fullfilment of the old Law??

[EDIT: I guess I may have other questions because to me this is an interesting topic, but I guess I’ll start with this 🙂

also, love your use of “traddom” 😊]

Peace,

J. S .Sebastiano P.
 
Actually, I have a question… I’m hoping you can answer as you seem to know a lot…

The Old Law is not binding on Gentile Catholics (that is, you don’t have to be Jewish to be Catholic - kosher, circumcision, etc. are not binding to Catholics)
But are Hebrew Catholics supposed to follow that law, and why?

That might sound like an odd question, but I’ve been wondering it… Is it something like since the New Law is the fullfilment of the old Law??

[EDIT: I guess I may have other questions because to me this is an interesting topic, but I guess I’ll start with this 🙂

also, love your use of “traddom” 😊]

Peace,

J. S .Sebastiano P.
In dealing with Judaism one has to very careful to distinguish laws and observances. Just as in Catholicism we have moral law, dogma and disciplines, the same is true of Judaism.

The term “old law” in Catholic theology refers to those laws that were preparatory to the coming of the Messiah. Obviously, as Jesus himself said, “I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.” Once the law is fulfilled, it is no longer binding be one a Gentile Catholic or a Hebrew Catholic.

Then there are laws that are moral nature, start with Deut 6, “Love the Lord your God with you whole heart and your neighbor as yourself.” Proceed to the Commandments and so forth. Those laws do not have fulfillment, because they were not given in preparation for the coming of the Messiah. Those are moral laws binding until the end of time. Yet, if one stops to think about it logically, they are part of the Old Law, because they are part of the Torah. The Torah has not been abolished. The Torah is what the Greek Christians called the Penta Teuchus or Pentateuch in English. Had it been abolished, it would no longer be of any interest to Christians today. There is a distinction between the moral law in the Old Covenant, which continues in full force and the preparatory laws as I try to explain to Gentiles.

Then there are observances, just as we have in Catholicism. For example, in Catholicism we observe certain customs and laws that are not of divine revelation, but are part of our faith tradition. The same is true of the Jewish people.

There are also traditions, which a little more important than customs. For example, the Liturgy of the Hours is a tradition. What many people don’t realize is that it comes down to us from Judaism and that in Orthodox Judaism it is still observed. The Lord is praised throughout the day. These traditions came into existence through divine revelation in the Old Testament. God draws his people into communion with him through a life of prayer, penance and good works. These things are not proprietary to the New Testament or to Christians. They were already in place when Jesus was born. Jesus ratifies them when he preaches the beatitudes, the corporal works of mercy and in the parables. He builds on them the sacramental system.

For example, the observance of Yom Kippur was a foreshadowing of the day of atonement in human history, Good Friday. It is a Christian as all heck. Unless one denies the need for atonement, then one can’t deny the value of Yom Kippur. The celebration of the new year is also one of those important traditions that has a strong spiritual component in Orthodox Jewry. It’s not just an occasion to have a party. Though we Jews can’t do anything without food. 😃 It’s an occasion to remember the blessings that we received during the previous year and an opportunity to ask for more blessings during the upcoming year. In fact, it has been modern society that has dropped the ball on the true meaning of New Year celebrations in both Jewry and Christianity. Both Jews and Christians have become so secularized that we have forgotten why we even celebrate New Year’s Eve.

We have the tradition of Shiva. This is still continued in orthodox Catholicism. We do pray for the dead. What’s November 2nd all about? We do offer masses, rosaries, novenas and other prayers for the souls of the departed and the consolation of the living. We just do it differently and use European terms rather than Hebrew terms.

There is a lot more in Catholicism that is very Jewish. As Mother Miriam once said, “There is nothing in Catholicism that is not Jewish.” Catholics are more Jewish than they like to admit or than they really know. I believe this makes it all the more confusing for many Jews who are looking at Catholicism. So much is identifiable and yet we often see the same casual attitude among Catholics as we see among secularized Jews that one wonders, why convert for more of the same?

For other Jews, such as me, conversion is rather easy, because we’re not leaving anything. We’re acquiring the fulfillment of what we have always believed. It’s not an admission that the Old Covenant no longer exists. It’s rather what Pope John Paul said and what Pope Benedict repeats very often, the Old Covenant with Israel is still in force and will remain in place until every Jew accepts Christ as the Messiah. This may take until the end of time, but that’s OK. God has a plan and his ways are not our ways. These are his people who are near and dear to his heart. Who knows, some of today’s Jews may be blood relatives to Jesus. It’s hard to know, because the Diaspora sent Jews to the ends of the known earth at the time.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
It’s not an admission that the Old Covenant no longer exists. It’s rather what Pope John Paul said and what Pope Benedict repeats very often, the **Old Covenant with Israel is still in force **and will remain in place until every Jew accepts Christ as the Messiah.
I thought that the Old Covenant was abrogated or superceded by Our Lord’s coming, implying since then Judaism has not been a saving religion, despite having the unique position of being a non-Catholic religion of divine revelation.

Wouldn’t that mean that Catholics are not allowed to worship with Jews, just like we are not allowed to worship with say, Protestants?

I can’t reconcile what you’re saying with any Catechism teaching I’ve read.
 
I was just reading about former Secretary of State Madeline Albright finding out she is of Jewish ancestry. If a person is raised Roman Catholic and does all the steps to become Catholic then later finds out they are Jewish does the fact that they are Jewish change anything as far as being Roman Catholic? I don’t think so, but I’m just curious if I’m right.
Well, using myself as an example, if for some reason I, a Catholic, found out that I actually have, say, Indian or Ainu or African or Russian or Turkish ancestry, would that change anything about my being Catholic? 🤷 Ethnicity doesn’t really matter in religion, and I don’t think it should. I mean, didn’t St. Paul say that (paraphrasing here) “In Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek?”
 
I’m Jewish and I’m Catholic. There are many of us throughout the history of the Church, starting with the Apostles and the Blessed Mother.
I have always thought it must be a great blessing to be both Hebrew and Catholic–a member of both the original People of God and part of the Body of Christ. Have you found it so, or is that just something that seems different from outside?

To the OP: As others have said, one is Catholic by virtue of baptism, not because of any particular national or ethnic origin.

–Jen
 
Just to add to what I said.

My short answer to this question? Well, there’s a Jewish Guy hanging on the crucifix of my rosary. 🤷 😉
 
I thought that the Old Covenant was abrogated or superceded by Our Lord’s coming, implying since then Judaism has not been a saving religion, despite having the unique position of being a non-Catholic religion of divine revelation.

Wouldn’t that mean that Catholics are not allowed to worship with Jews, just like we are not allowed to worship with say, Protestants?

I can’t reconcile what you’re saying with any Catechism teaching I’ve read.
The teaching of the Church is that the Covenant has been fulfilled, not abrogated. There is a significant difference. If the Covenant were abrogated, we would have throw out many things that we keep from Judaism, starting with Scriptures, Commandments, liturgy, history and many other customs and practices.
**
839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People, “the first to hear the Word of God.” The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”, “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”
**
The issue is one of wording. Jesus himself is very clear, “I have not come to do away with the covenant. I have come to fulfill it.” Jesus is the fulfillment of the Covenant.
**
581 The Jewish people and their spiritual leaders viewed Jesus as a rabbi. He often argued within the framework of rabbinical interpretation of the Law. Yet Jesus could not help but offend the teachers of the Law, for he was not content to propose his interpretation alongside theirs but taught the people “as one who had authority, and not as their scribes”. In Jesus, the same Word of God that had resounded on Mount Sinai to give the written Law to Moses, made itself heard anew on the Mount of the Beatitudes. Jesus did not abolish the Law but fulfilled it by giving its ultimate interpretation in a divine way: “You have heard that it was said to the men of old. . . But I say to you. . .” With this same divine authority, he disavowed certain human traditions of the Pharisees that were “making void the word of God”.**

However, since God makes covenants with people, even though the Covenant has been fulfilled, it does not mean that everyone knows it, understands how this is so, or can honestly wrap their head around it, because of a number of complicated differences between Judaism and Christianity. The two most important being the concept of Incarnation and the Trinity. Once a Jew can get past that, the rest is much easier. The covenant with those people remains in place until they have come to see that it has been fulfilled.

For this reason, the Catholic Church discourages Catholics from trying to convert Jews and encourages Catholics to invite Jews to come and see without any pressure. In God’s good time, every Jewish person will come to the realization that Christ is the fulfillment of the Covenant and that what Catholics call the New Covenant is really no new as much as it is the fulfillment of what was promised to our fathers.
**
2577 From this intimacy with the faithful God, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, Moses drew strength and determination for his intercession. He does not pray for himself but for the people whom God made his own. Moses already intercedes for them during the battle with the Amalekites and prays to obtain healing for Miriam. But it is chiefly after their apostasy that Moses “stands in the breach” before God in order to save the people. The arguments of his prayer - for intercession is also a mysterious battle - will inspire the boldness of the great intercessors among the Jewish people and in the Church: God is love; he is therefore righteous and faithful; he cannot contradict himself; he must remember his marvelous deeds, since his glory is at stake, and he cannot forsake this people that bears his name.
**
The problem is with the terms New and Old. It’s more a problem with English than it is in other languages wee the old covenant is not called this. For example, in Spanish, the traditional term is the ancient covenant. Today, many Spanish speakers, because of the influence of English use old and ancient interchangeably. But that was not always the case. Ancient is probably a much better word.

If we look at the God Friday liturgy, it prays that the Jewish people will come to the realization that Jesus is the Messiah. It does not rule out their salvation within the Jewish faith.

As to why we do not workshop with Jews on a regular basis though we may do so for special occasions, since none of their worship is heretical. On the contrary, it’s all very biblical. There is a very good reason. There is nothing in the Jewish liturgy that is not always present in Catholic liturgy. However, there is something missing in Jewish liturgy. That is the sacrifice of Christ. It would be an incomplete form of worship. Incomplete is not synonymous with bad. If I have three tires, I have an incomplete set. However, the three tires that I have a perfectly good. I’m still short one.
 
Here is an excellent example taken from the CCC of what the Church is trying to teach us.
**
1096 Jewish liturgy and Christian liturgy. A better knowledge of the Jewish people’s faith and religious life as professed and lived even now can help our better understanding of certain aspects of Christian liturgy. For both Jews and Christians Sacred Scripture is an essential part of their respective liturgies: in the proclamation of the Word of God, the response to this word, prayer of praise and intercession for the living and the dead, invocation of God’s mercy. In its characteristic structure the Liturgy of the Word originates in Jewish prayer. The Liturgy of the Hours and other liturgical texts and formularies, as well as those of our most venerable prayers, including the Lord’s Prayer, have parallels in Jewish prayer. The Eucharistic Prayers also draw their inspiration from the Jewish tradition. The relationship between Jewish liturgy and Christian liturgy, but also their differences in content, are particularly evident in the great feasts of the liturgical year, such as Passover. Christians and Jews both celebrate the Passover. For Jews, it is the Passover of history, tending toward the future; for Christians, it is the Passover fulfilled in the death and Resurrection of Christ, though always in expectation of its definitive consummation.**

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
It would be unfair to say all of Traddom.
Traddom. Lol. Love it!
There has always been a strong anti-Semitic tone in Fundamentalist Protestantism.
But there is also the other problem of the pendulum swinging too far the other way as well, I think; sometimes even becoming obsessedly preoccupied with *the State *of Israel, rather than focusing on a more helpful and useful interest in Judaism as a religion, especially its liturgical aspects at the time of Christ. This problem is increasing, I’ve noticed, in America peculiarly; and it’s scary when that aspect becomes political (as it practically is almost by necessity). This makes for, in my opinion, some possibly very dangerous associtations or mental connections that could possibly go very, very awry.
Hebrew Catholics always felt safe within the Catholic Church. We could attend mass, receive the sacraments, become priests, sisters and brothers and do whatever other Catholics do while at the same time sitting with our family for Passover, praying for atonement at Yom Kippur, celebrating the new year with our Jewish relatives at Rosh Hashanah, attend Bar Mitzvahs, or even attend the temple on high holy days with our parents who may be Jewish. In some sectors of the Catholic world, NOT MANY (thank God), we’ve come under attack. As a result the Association of Hebrew Catholics has grown to be quite large. It is a space where we can be Catholic and preserve our Jewish roots without complications.

Association of Hebrew Catholics

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
I always wondered what a peculiarly Hebrew-inspired Mass might be or look like, and what aspects of the Mass it might highlight, accentuate or even modify (where, of course, such is permissible). I wonder what connections (if any?) might or could be made between the traditional celebration of the Passover (and various other rites or customs of Judaism) and the Mass or how these might be expressed in a liturgical sense or way.

Regardless, and back to topic,

For the scripture saith: Whosoever believeth in him, shall not be confounded. For there is no distinction of the Jew and the Greek: for the same is Lord over all, rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved.
 
This is a topic that has always fascinated me. I think many Catholics don’t realize our kinship with the Jewish people, nor the huge impact Jewish liturgy has on Catholic liturgy and our understanding of it. As a lover of the Liturgy of the Hours I am particularly fascinated with its connection to the Jewish daily praying of the psalms.
 
Traddom. Lol. Love it!

But there is also the other problem of the pendulum swinging too far the other way as well, I think; sometimes even becoming obsessedly preoccupied with *the State *of Israel, rather than focusing on a more helpful and useful interest in Judaism as a religion, especially its liturgical aspects at the time of Christ. This problem is increasing, I’ve noticed, in America peculiarly; and it’s scary when that aspect becomes political (as it practically is almost by necessity). This makes for, in my opinion, some possibly very dangerous associtations or mental connections that could possibly go very, very awry.
The big mandate that we (clergy and religious) have right now is not to focus on the Jewish faith. This comes from the pope himself. The mandate is to crack down on all forms of antisemitism. The Holy Father considers anti Muslims and anti Jews antisemitism, since both are Semites. Those are marching orders. That’s what we’re doing. So far, in most places, this has not been a problem. Most Catholics are not anti Muslims or anti Jews. I only know of one parish that has been threatened with an interdict if they don’t retract certain statements that they made about Muslims. There have been some priests and religious suspended for denying the Holocaust. Even those are probably less than 10. I don’t know of any Catholic layman who is in trouble over this, yet.
I always wondered what a peculiarly Hebrew-inspired Mass might be or look like, and what aspects of the Mass it might highlight, accentuate or even modify (where, of course, such is permissible). I wonder what connections (if any?) might or could be made between the traditional celebration of the Passover (and various other rites or customs of Judaism) and the Mass or how these might be expressed in a liturgical sense or way.
Actually, it’s no different from any other mass except that often, it may have many Hebrew hymns. You can’t use Hebrew for the mass, because outside of Israel, most Jews don’t speak fluent Hebrew.
This is a topic that has always fascinated me. I think many Catholics don’t realize our kinship with the Jewish people, nor the huge impact Jewish liturgy has on Catholic liturgy and our understanding of it. As a lover of the Liturgy of the Hours I am particularly fascinated with its connection to the Jewish daily praying of the psalms.
The LOTH is a beautiful custom. When it’s celebrated properly, it’s very Jewish. Just as the early monks used chant, the old Jews would “hum” and rock as they prayed the Psalms. The Orthodox still do so. The big difference is that the Jews pray standing.

Even the names come from the Jewish liturgy. If you read in scripture, the time of day is determined by the liturgical hour. "He went to pray at the third hour . . . " etc. "It was already the 6th hour . . . "

Not having proper clocks, the LOTH were practical as well as spiritual. The liturgical seasons were very connected to the history of Israel, just as our liturgical seasons are connected to the mysteries of the faith.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
If we look at the God Friday liturgy, it prays that the Jewish people will come to the realization that Jesus is the Messiah. It does not rule out their salvation within the Jewish faith.QUOTE]

I followed you up to this point.

I agree that the current Good Friday prayer in the 1970 missal implies just what you say here, but I’ve never seen it taught explicitedly or implied anywhere else. I assumed that a pluralistic reading of it was incorrect because it has always been taught in our Faith that there is no other saving religion. To my understanding, ancient Jews had a leg up on everyone else in being saved but since Christ Jews have been in basically the same boat as other non-Christians, despite having a religion of far higher dignity.

Are you saying I’ve misunderstood the Church’s position?
 
JReducation;9965760:
If we look at the God Friday liturgy, it prays that the Jewish people will come to the realization that Jesus is the Messiah. It does not rule out their salvation within the Jewish faith.QUOTE]

I followed you up to this point.

I agree that the current Good Friday prayer in the 1970 missal implies just what you say here, but I’ve never seen it taught explicitedly or implied anywhere else. I assumed that a pluralistic reading of it was incorrect because it has always been taught in our Faith that there is no other saving religion. To my understanding, ancient Jews had a leg up on everyone else in being saved but since Christ Jews have been in basically the same boat as other non-Christians, despite having a religion of far higher dignity.

Are you saying I’ve misunderstood the Church’s position?
Many people have misunderstood the Church’s position on non-Catholic faiths. The past documents were intended to keep Catholics inside the Church. They were speaking them, not to non-Catholics. As time passed, many people read the documents to be speaking to the world, which was not the intent.

This is the correction that Vatican II, Bl. John XXIII, Pope Paul VI, Bl. John Paul II, and Pope Benedict have been trying to make. For a Catholic to go that way would present a grave danger to the soul. For one who is born into that faith, the Church teaches that Christ can save through other faiths. Pope Benedict repeated this again this weekend. He and Bl. John Paul II tried to clarify this in the publication of the CCC when they say that Christ can and does use other faiths to save.

However, like everything else, if you know that you can find the fullness of truth in the Catholic faith, you have moral duty to move in that direction or to stay there, if you’re already Catholic. The moral duty of every man is to seek out the fullness of truth.

Evangelization is about presenting the faith and inviting the other person to come and see, which is very different from the type of proselytism that you see among some other faiths:
  1. Convert or we kill you
  2. Convert or go to hell
  3. Convert or we ignore you
and so forth.

We do not use a hard sell. That’s not what Catholics are about. We have nothing to prove to the rest of the world. We have a great deal to share and a wonderful invitation to make.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
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