A Roman Catholic Who finds out their Jewish

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But there is also the other problem of the pendulum swinging too far the other way as well, I think; sometimes even becoming obsessedly preoccupied with *the State *of Israel, rather than focusing on a more helpful and useful interest in Judaism as a religion, especially its liturgical aspects at the time of Christ. This problem is increasing, I’ve noticed, in America peculiarly; and it’s scary when that aspect becomes political (as it practically is almost by necessity). This makes for, in my opinion, some possibly very dangerous associtations or mental connections that could possibly go very, very awry.
You know, I’ve said this on another thread, but I have the odd feeling that that a number of the Christians who ‘support’ the state of Israel do so only because of their eschatological views rather than what we could say is genuine concern for the country or for Jews. In other words, they have their own agenda for supporting Israel the modern state.
 
According to Scripture, Jews who convert to Catholicism still have to follow Levitical Law (still can’t eat pork).

Only Gentile converts are not bound to Levitical Law, only to the Noahide Law.
 
The LOTH is a beautiful custom. When it’s celebrated properly, it’s very Jewish. Just as the early monks used chant, the old Jews would “hum” and rock as they prayed the Psalms. The Orthodox still do so. The big difference is that the Jews pray standing.
Brother, do you mean davening at this point? AFAIK it’s really a medieval custom. Just a gentle correction if you don’t mind, but a number of elements in modern Judaism actually developed later than the time of Jesus. A number of people today attempt to image Jesus and 1st century Palestinian Jews as looking and acting (even if only superficially) like modern Jews: peyots, box-shaped tefillin, white-and-blue (or black) ‘prayer shawls’ and whatnot, but this is really anachronistic.
 
Some folks have had families who have been Jewish or Muslim for, say, 800 years. And in those cases, some live in a culture where it’s the main religion. It’s all they know. You can present several proofs, use Scripture, Church Fathers, and all sorts of things. The reality is that those people won’t be swayed by the mind, because their minds are made up, and they’ve been made up for centuries. Their minds will not be moved.

So if not a conversion of the mind, then what? A conversion of heart. We speak to the heart through our works and through our words, where love leads to faith, then love plus faith leads to reason.

In this sense, I can see how Christ can use other faiths to help lead others to salvation. Their lives and faith through the same Father God that we have may allow them to live their lives in such a way that in the last 0.000000002 seconds of their lives, in His infinite Divine Mercy Christ asks them for their “yes” to Him and become one with His bride, the holy Catholic Church. And through the power of said Divine Mercy, some of them will say “yes”. Some, not all. But some.

Does any of this look or sound familiar? It should, as there was a few people who taught this message 800 years or so ago. One of them is a Doctor of the Church.

It’s why it is not a coincidence that the Franciscans are the custodians of the Holy Land.
 
I had my DNA done a few years ago. I think I have the genes of at least half of the tribes of the ancient world in my blood, including Ashkenazi (eastern European Jews.) But its so far back that no one knows for sure who the “tent-creeper” was anymore.

All I know for sure is that I am Catholic and I like pork in most any style of cooking :eek:

😃 👍
 
According to Scripture, Jews who convert to Catholicism still have to follow Levitical Law (still can’t eat pork).

Only Gentile converts are not bound to Levitical Law, only to the Noahide Law.
No we don’t observe the Kosher.
Brother, do you mean davening at this point? AFAIK it’s really a medieval custom. Just a gentle correction if you don’t mind, but a number of elements in modern Judaism actually developed later than the time of Jesus. A number of people today attempt to image Jesus and 1st century Palestinian Jews as looking and acting (even if only superficially) like modern Jews: peyots, box-shaped tefillin, white-and-blue (or black) ‘prayer shawls’ and whatnot, but this is really anachronistic.
No that’s not it at all. Modern Jewish liturgy is like modern Catholic liturgy. It has picked up much from its surrounding cultures. Just look at the differences between the Eastern and Western rites.

There are some practices that go back thousands of years. The standing and humming is one of them. There were no seats in the ancient temple. The concept of benches in a synagogue, temple or church is a Protestant introduction into worship. The movement was to keep you focused and because as you shift your weight, your legs do not get as tired. In the pre-Christian era the custom was to bow at many points during prayer. People gradually shifted from bowing to rocking.

As far as Jesus, he was a first century Jew from Galilee. Jews dressed and look different, depending on their origins. It’s only after the diaspora where there is a blending of customs. Jesus most probably had shorter hair than most Jews. Galileans were not noted for being very orthodox about taking a blade to their hair. He probably had a shorter beard as well. His physical features would have been those of his mother, since she is his only genetic donor. Nazarenes looked very much like Hispanics of Spain or like Syrians. They had dark hair, olive complexion and their eyes ranged from green to grey and everything except black. They had no negroid contact.

The blue and white colors are a later development. It’s probably of European influence, since Europeans are very big on colors, flags and coats of arms. What is very interesting is that Catholics followed the Jews in this line of thinking. They often protrayed Jesus wearing a lot of white, which was unlikely as they did not have bleach and they portrayed Mary wearing the colors of Israel, blue and white. But this all happens in Europe.

It is important to remember that many of the customs that developed in Europe were based on customs that the Jews brought from Palestine. They didn’t pull them out of their hats. There is an attempt by Catholics to try to disconnect modern Judaism from Jesus Christ. The hierarchy of the Catholic Church is proving to be quite resistant to this move. It’s more of a lay movement than an official Church movement.

In fact, the Vatican has established a commission to do just the opposite, to preserve and protect the connection between Catholicism and Judaism, especially to preserve Jesus’ Jewishness. After WW II, it became evident to the Holy See that this was necessary. Christians (Catholics and non-Catholics) tried their hardest to divorce Jesus from Jewry. Even art work where Jesus and the Blessed Mother are depicted with Semite looks have been dismissed over the centuries are hidden in closets or libraries in Europe. All the artwork that we have is of Jesus and Mary who are either very Arian or very Greek.

Hebrew Catholics and Eastern Catholics find this Roman Catholic attitude to be very offensive, because it’s almost as if to say that the Eastern peoples of the Catholic Church have no real claim to Jesus and his Blessed Mother.

We have to get past these hangups and accept who Jesus was as he was, a first century Galilean and accept that there is much of Jewish culture in our Catholic faith and culture.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
As far as Jesus, he was a first century Jew from Galilee. Jews dressed and look different, depending on their origins. It’s only after the diaspora where there is a blending of customs. Jesus most probably had shorter hair than most Jews. Galileans were not noted for being very orthodox about taking a blade to their hair. He probably had a shorter beard as well. His physical features would have been those of his mother, since she is his only genetic donor. Nazarenes looked very much like Hispanics of Spain or like Syrians. They had dark hair, olive complexion and their eyes ranged from green to grey and everything except black. They had no negroid contact.

The blue and white colors are a later development. It’s probably of European influence, since Europeans are very big on colors, flags and coats of arms. What is very interesting is that Catholics followed the Jews in this line of thinking. They often protrayed Jesus wearing a lot of white, which was unlikely as they did not have bleach and they portrayed Mary wearing the colors of Israel, blue and white. But this all happens in Europe.
I said ‘blue and white’ because that’s the common colors of the tallit today. What I’m really saying here, Brother, is nothing too major: I’m just pointing out that a number of recent attempts to emphasize the ‘Jewishness’ of Jesus comes off as being rather anachronistic.

The tallit, for example, as we know it today is more like a ‘prayer shawl’ worn only on specific occasions. However, in Numbers 15:38-39 and Deuteronomy 22:12, the Israelites are commanded to add the tzitzit, or the tassel, to the “four corners of [their] garments” as a remembrance of the commandments of the Lord. Obviously this denoted the mantle which men draped over their tunics as part of their daily clothing. The mantle only became a ceremonial garment (and decreased in size) within Judaism later in time, when fashions began to change and people in most areas no longer wore cloaks. The tallit increasingly shrunk in size and became, for all intents and purposes, a shawl-like piece of cloth.

Just quoting from Rome and Jerusalem: The Clash of Ancient Civilizations by a guy named Martin Goodman:

According to the Babylonian Talmud, it was a religious duty for all Jews, men as well as women, to wear special clothes on the Sabbath: “your Sabbath garments should not be like your weekday garments…” In general, however, expenditure on personal appearance was assumed by Jews to be a characteristic of women rather than men. Jewish clothing, apart from the uniforms of the priests and Levites, seems to have been the same as that of others in the eastern Mediterranean. It would be wrong to imagine the Jewish tallit as an identity marker similar to the distinctively Roman toga; tallit in Hebrew means simply “cloak” and the use of such a garment as a dedicated prayer shawl did not begin until after late antiquity. The biblical prohibition on wearing garments manufactured from wool and linen, stated simply as a general law in Deuteronomy, was explained by Josephus as a way to preserve the unique status of the priesthood: such raiment “is reserved for priests alone.” That priests did indeed wear clothes made from such materials is confirmed in the Mishnah. When the Pharisees chose to “make broad their phylacteries and enlarge the borders of their garments,” they did this in order “to be seen of men;” but such ostentation must have been unusual for it to be alleged that it attracted Jesus’ criticism, and it is probably significant that no gentile pagan source betrays any knowledge of this distinctive Jewish custom. The Jewish figures in the frescoes from the synagogue at Dura-Europus have fringes on the corners of some of their cloaks, but if this reflected standard male Jewish practice, the fringes must have generally been discreet. Jewish men did not specially cover their heads. The dress of Jewish women also seems to have been much the same as that of gentile contemporaries; the Christian Tertullian remarked in Carthage at the end of the second century CE that Jewish women could be recognized as Jews by the fact that they wore veils in public, but it seems likely that such veils, common in the eastern Mediterranean, marked them out less as specifically Jewish than as simply oriental in the Roman West, where women were generally unveiled. According to the Mishnah it was regarded as immodest and shaming for a woman to wear her hair loose. The Mishnah refers to types of jewellery that a woman should not carry on a Sabbath: “She may not go out…with forehead-band or head-bangles if they are not sewn, or with a hairnet…or a necklace or nose-rings…”
 
(Continued)

Too much pride by males in their long hair was dangerously immoral, as the story of Absalom showed: he gloried in his hair, so he was hanged by it. A few hairstyles were specially forbidden by the rabbis in the Tosefta on the grounds that they looked too gentile and therefore smacked of idolatry or magic: “What are the matters which constitute ‘the ways of the Amorites?’ He who trims the front of his hair, and he who makes his locks grow long, and he who makes a baldness in front for a particular star…” But these restrictions are the exception that prove the rule, that Jews generally looked like non-Jews. Romans often noted that foreign peoples looked different from themselves, but (apart from male circumcision) they never noticed this of the Jews. One passing remark by a Roman author does, however, suggest that some Romans thought Jews had a distinctive smell: the historian Ammianus Marcellinus recorded in the fourth century CE a comment of the philosopher Marcus Aurelius in the second century CE about the Jews as malodorous. This was not a standard form of abuse of other people in the Roman world. It may even have some basis in a real difference. If modesty requires more clothing, in a hot climate old sweaty clothes may become smelly. If everyone smells equally, no one notices, and the issue of body odour (except of tanners) fails to surface in the Jewish texts.

Another quote, this time from Jodi Magness’ The Archaeology of Qumran and the Dead Sea Scrolls (pp. 194-7). In context she’s talking about the Qumran sect:

A sleeveless tunic (Greek chiton; Hebrew haluq), covered by a large, rectangular mantle (Greek himation; Roman pallium; Hebrew tallit or me’il) were worn by both men and women in Roman Palestine (see Fig. 60). The Roman toga was analogous to a mantle but differed in having a curved hem. The tunic consisted of a large rectangular sheet woven with two parallel bands of a different color that run from selvage to selvage and spaced widely apart. Whereas most Greek and Roman tunics were woven in a single piece, those from Masada and the Cave of Letters were woven in two pieces and sewn together at the shoulders, leaving an opening for the neck (see Fig. 58). This feature facilitated adherence to the laws of purity, for if one half of the mantle sic] became impure it could be removed and replaced without defiling the other half.

Narrow stripes woven into the tunics so that they descended into the shoulders characterized all tunics of the Roman period (see Fig. 58). Called clavi in Latin and usually woven in shades of purple, these stripes defined the rank of the wearer (the broader the stripes, the higher the wearer’s rank). Yigael Yadin demonstrated that the Hebrew term for clavus is ‘imrah. The mantles found in Masada and in the Cave of Letters are decorated with notched bands and gamma-shaped designs (see Fig. 59). The notched bands and gamma-shaped designs occur on mantles worn by both men and women. Jewish mantles were distinguished from non-Jewish ones by the attachment of tzitzit (tassels) to the four corners of the man’s mantle. A bundle of dyed, unspun wool intended for tzitzit was found in the Cave of Letters. Whereas some of the mantles from the Cave of Letters were colored, none of the tunics had any decorative elements aside from the clavi. In contrast, colored tunics appear to be represented at Masada. With one exception, all of the linen textiles from Masada were undyed, whereas dyed color is found (with two exceptions only on wool textiles). Similarly, none of the linen textiles from the Cave of Letters has colored, decorative patterns. All of the textiles found at Masada and in the Cave of Letters conform to the halakhic injunction of shaatnez, which prohibits mixing woolen and linen fibers in the same garment (from Deuteronomy 22:11: “Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse kinds, of woolen and linen together”) (see Fig. 63).

Except for the child’s shirt from the Cave of Letters, none of the linen textiles found there or at Masada belongs to garments. In other words, the garments worn by the Jewish men and women at Masada and in the Cave of Letters were made of wool. The linen child’s shirt from the Cave of letters is made of two identical sheets that were sewn together like a tunic. The shirt is decorated with two thin bands that are not colored and were formed of several weft threads that had been thrown together. These stripes or bands, which were created by using a different weave instead of a different color, are called self-stripes (see Fig. 63). Yadin suggested that this represented an attempt to imitate the clavi of the larger tunics while complying with the law of shaatnez (created on the one hand by the difficulty of dying linen and creating decorative colored patterns, and on the other by the prohibition against adding colored woolen bands). The child’s shirt was apparently some sort of inner garment. Pieces of an adult’s linen tunic with the same kind of self-stripes were discovered in one of the caves in Wadi Murabba’at. Another linen fragment with self-stripes was found in the cave of Avior near Jericho.

…] Although color was not confined to women’s clothes, the textiles from Masada and the Cave of Letters as well as iconographic and textual sources indicate that women’s clothing was more likely than men’s to be colored. In the Dura Europos synagogue paintings, for example, the men wear white or off-white mantles (with colored bands), while the women all wear colored garments. A Midrashic (interpretive) commentary on Deuteronomy (Sifre Deuteronomy 115b) states that “a woman shall not wear a man’s white garments and a man shall not wear colored garments.” …]
 
Some pictures:

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Dyed wool tunic from Nahal Hever, with clavi

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Wool tunic from Nahal Hever, with clavi

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Wool mantle from Nahal Hever, with notched band

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Wool mantle from Nahal Hever, dyed red and decorated with gamma-shaped design

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Wool mantle from Masada, decorated with gamma-shaped design


Fresco from the synagogue at Dura Europos in Syria. Note the clavi and the notched bands.


Prophet (Jeremiah or Ezra) holding a scroll, from Dura Europos.
 
It is important to remember that many of the customs that developed in Europe were based on customs that the Jews brought from Palestine. They didn’t pull them out of their hats. There is an attempt by Catholics to try to disconnect modern Judaism from Jesus Christ. The hierarchy of the Catholic Church is proving to be quite resistant to this move. It’s more of a lay movement than an official Church movement.
I’m not saying that there’s no connection with modern Judaism with the ‘Judaisms’ (or the ‘Judaean customs’) of the 1st century; rather, I’m just saying that we should not automatically assume - as some people do - that a number of the things we identify today as ‘Jewish’ may not have yet existed during the time of Jesus, and so trying to push them back would be an anachronism. It is kind of like saying that the Christians of the early 2nd century wore fiddleback chasubles with lace albs and sung Gregorian chant. 😃
In fact, the Vatican has established a commission to do just the opposite, to preserve and protect the connection between Catholicism and Judaism, especially to preserve Jesus’ Jewishness. After WW II, it became evident to the Holy See that this was necessary. Christians (Catholics and non-Catholics) tried their hardest to divorce Jesus from Jewry. Even art work where Jesus and the Blessed Mother are depicted with Semite looks have been dismissed over the centuries are hidden in closets or libraries in Europe. All the artwork that we have is of Jesus and Mary who are either very Arian or very Greek.
Indeed.
 
No we don’t observe the Kosher.
Were you raised Jewish, Brother? Or is it that you were just of Jewish heritage? I have a friend who has a Jewish father and Catholic mother, but himself was raised Catholic.

Also, there is that other issue about the Jewish faith of today isn’t the same Jewish faith of the First Century. One can argue that no one is of the Jewish religion today.
 
For one who is born into that faith, the Church teaches that Christ can save through other faiths.
Don’t you mean that Christ can save them *in spite *of their false religions? It has been my understanding that non-Catholics who are saved are not saved because they followed their religion’s laws well, but because they followed the natural law well in unknowing obedience to the invitation of the Blessed Trinity.

I would be surprised to read the Holy Father saying that non-Catholics religions (other than Orthodox/Protestant baptism) communicate saving grace. Are you sure that’s what His Holiness meant?
 
Don’t you mean that Christ can save them *in spite *of their false religions? It has been my understanding that non-Catholics who are saved are not saved because they followed their religion’s laws well, but because they followed the natural law well in unknowing obedience to the invitation of the Blessed Trinity.

I would be surprised to read the Holy Father saying that non-Catholics religions (other than Orthodox/Protestant baptism) communicate saving grace. Are you sure that’s what His Holiness meant?
The Orthodox have valid sacraments including a valid Eucharist; the Eucharist does provide saving grace does it not? Protestantism, in addition to valid baptism (in those denominations with a valid trinitarian baptism), have other elements of Truth, thought not the fullness of it.

Judaism certainly is not a “false” religion. I can’t imagine God takes back His covenants.

It’s not an either/or thing in that if some elements are missing or false, the entire religion is false. Look at what the Catechism says on the subject our separated brethren:
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers … All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.
819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”
 
You know, I’ve said this on another thread, but I have the odd feeling that that a number of the Christians who ‘support’ the state of Israel do so only because of their eschatological views rather than what we could say is genuine concern for the country or for Jews. In other words, they have their own agenda for supporting Israel the modern state.
Yes, that’s my concern. It’s a highly emotional motivation, and the danger with emotion is that it can quickly, easily and irrationally swing from love to hate.
 
Don’t you mean that Christ can save them *in spite *of their false religions?
Don’t you mean in spite of any falsity in their religions?

[8] He [John the Baptist] was not the light, but was to give testimony of the light. [9] That was the true light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world.

There are many true things to be found in nearly every religion; for, as St. Thomas says, the human mind can scarcely accept pure error or an outright lie. Moreover, there is plenty of even profound truth to be found in other religions: e.g., that God is one, that God is Lord and Lord of all (including history); that God is personal, etc. All of this is perfectly true, and there is no error in believing it.

It’s the old baby and the bath water analogy: Catholicism certainly possesses the fullness of the truth; nowithstanding, many Catholics manage to pervert that truth (ultimately resulting in heresy, of course) but often unwittingly or unintentionally. We certainly hope that God will have mercy on us for our own ignorance, confusion or error.
 
Judaism certainly is not a “false” religion. I can’t imagine God takes back His covenants.
I already made an exception for the use of Trinitarian baptisms outside the Church. I’m not sure about Orthodox Eucharists, to be honest (illicit?) but I don’t want to get off topic.

My point is: Judaism possesses no elements of salvation, right?

I would not conflate the Judaism of Christ’s time on Earth and modern Judaism. Modern Judaism has evolved into something other than the sacrificial religion it once was, that foreshadowed the sacrifice of Christ. Also, it seems like the denial of Our Savior has become strongly intertwined with Judaism as a historical development. I would not view it as “completely correct in what it holds, only incomplete.” It holds serious errors today. I believe the Church’s holds that the only hope for Jews is invincible ignorance.
 
Were you raised Jewish, Brother? Or is it that you were just of Jewish heritage? I have a friend who has a Jewish father and Catholic mother, but himself was raised Catholic.
I was born and raised Sephardim
Also, there is that other issue about the Jewish faith of today isn’t the same Jewish faith of the First Century. One can argue that no one is of the Jewish religion today.
The problem with this argument is a Christian problem, not a Jewish problem. Christians seem to take great pleasure in finding any loose screw that they can pull to bring down the house of cards. They do it to their own Church as well. Look at what is said about Catholicism. Many claim that today’s Catholicism is not the Christianity of the Apostles, but that it’s the product of Constantine and the Roman Empire. Those who claim this are Christians.

I have often wondered why Christians seem to derive so much satisfaction our of pulling the rug out from under people of faith, be it Christians or non Christians.
Don’t you mean that Christ can save them *in spite *of their false religions?
Not at all. What the Church has said is that Christ uses those elements of truth found in other faiths as a means to salvation.

Again, I refer you to my statement above as well. Why must we Christians go out of our way to pull the rug out from under other people of faith? Why must we try to handcuff God? The fact that we have the surest means to salvation is not to be interchangeably used as the only means to salvation.

There is no salvation outside of the Church. However, the Church’s saving power can be found outside of her physical boundaries. Even though the person is not within the physical Church, the salvation is still coming through the Church. It is the Church saying that Christ uses truth as means to salvation. It is the Church to whom all truth belongs, even if it is found outside of her borders.
I would be surprised to read the Holy Father saying that non-Catholics religions (other than Orthodox/Protestant baptism) communicate saving grace. Are you sure that’s what His Holiness meant?
You’re talking about sacramental grace. Obviously, Jews and Muslims do not have access to sacramental grace. However, they have access to moral truth. They have access to a life of intimacy with God. They have access to great acts of charity and heroic lives of virtue. They have access to spiritual growth. At the moment of death, they have access to Christ’s mercy which is offered freely to all men. If they desire it, then they are baptized by desire. The core question is would they desire baptism, if they understood what it has to offer? Only God knows the answer to this question. For this reason the Church holds that there is salvation possible for Jews, Muslims and others who are not Christians. Desire is possible for everyone.
I already made an exception for the use of Trinitarian baptisms outside the Church. I’m not sure about Orthodox Eucharists, to be honest (illicit?) but I don’t want to get off topic.
They are not illicit. They are valid and licit. The Catholic Church has no authority to say that is legal or illegal outside of her boundaries. Even within the Catholic Church we have several codes of Canon Law. However, all of them begin by saying that they apply only to a specific population. If you belong to the Latin Church, the Roman Code applies only to you, not to the Melkite Catholics. They have their own code and yet they are Catholic. The same is true about the Orthodox. They have their own code of law and their Patriarchs are valid and licit patriarchs. Therefore, they can grant faculties. What makes a mass illicit is the absence of communion with a bishop. If an Orthodox priest is in communion with his bishop, his mass is valid and licit.
My point is: Judaism possesses no elements of salvation, right?
It possesses no sacramental means of salvation. However, since God does not break his covenant with his people and since so many Jews do not know that the covenant has been fulfilled by Christ, the Church believes that God has a plan for the Jews precisely because they are his people and the people who gave us the Messiah.
 
I would not conflate the Judaism of Christ’s time on Earth and modern Judaism. Modern Judaism has evolved into something other than the sacrificial religion it once was, that foreshadowed the sacrifice of Christ. Also, it seems like the denial of Our Savior has become strongly intertwined with Judaism as a historical development. I would not view it as “completely correct in what it holds, only incomplete.” It holds serious errors today. I believe the Church’s holds that the only hope for Jews is invincible ignorance.
No, if you read the writings of Bl. John Paul and Pope Benedict, the Church holds that the hope for Israel is God’s love for his son’s people.

There is no denial of our Savior in Judaism. This is what fundamentalists have to get out of their heads. What is happening in Judaism is that there is no conviction that Jesus Christ is the Messiah.

The absence of conviction does not constitute a denial. One can remain open to be convinced. Judaism has never made any formal decree denying the Messiahship of Jesus. This is left to individual Jews to sort through it on our own. No Rabbi ever tells us that Jesus is not the Messiah. What we are taught is that Christians believe this, period. As one Rabbi said to me once, “The difference between Jews and Christians is that we can prove Moses existed, because we have the Commandments, but Christians can’t prove that Jesus rose, because he’s not walking around.” In other words, the struggle of many intellectual Jews is one of evidence. They are not denying anything. They are seeking evidence.

We don’t have physical evidence that the tomb was empty. We have the word of the women and the Apostles. From there the Christian tradition takes off.

We have to be very careful in how we interpret what others are saying. This is what makes men like Maximilian Kolbe, John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul II, John Paul I, and Benedict XVI such geniuses. They are very skilled students of language and human behavior, more than many previous popes. Remember, one need not be a scholar to be a pope. These men have been scholars. When they listen, they hear something different coming from non Christians.

They hear the anti-Catholicism as well as the lack of conviction, which is not the same as anti-Catholicism. All of us need to work on listening more and reading less. Speak to Jews and Muslims about Jesus. Don’t try to sell them Jesus. Simply ask them questions about Jesus and listen. You’ll find their responses are not what you expected. Most are not hostile toward Christ at all or even antagonistic.

Ask them about the development of Judaism and Islam. You’ll find that they can give you some examples of organic development just as we can when asked to explain the early Church, the Church of Constantine, the Church of the Middle Ages and the rest that followed to this day. To the outsider who does not know certain details, it looks as if there is no continuity. But to the man who is well educated in his faith’s history, he can point to the dots and how they connect. Let’s not do to other faiths what we do not like them doing to our faith. Finally, trust what the Church is saying that she’s learning about Jews. Learning never stops, not even for the Church.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
If you find out that you have Jewish ancestors that does not make you any less Catholic than if you didn’t. For example, St. Theresa of Avila had Jewish ancestors and she was also a saint and a doctor of the Catholic Church.
:):)🙂
 
No, if you read the writings of Bl. John Paul and Pope Benedict, the Church holds that the hope for Israel is God’s love for his son’s people.
Isn’t that just a polite nicety reflecting post-Holocaust sensitivities? The historic doctrine of the Church is that there is “no salvation outside the Church.” She has developed some real nuances in understanding this doctrine, but it sounds like you stretch an those nuances to mean that there is a para-Church in the Jewish Faith. That is contradictory to everything I have been taught about our Faith.
 
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