A sad observation

[JackieMom]

I grew up in a town that has a significant LDS presence, and I still live here. I had many LDS friends growing up in local schools and in my neighborhood, mostly because my parents trusted their family values and conservative households. I am still in touch with many of these people on Facebook and in person.

I also have many Catholic friends that I met when I switched to Catholic schools and through our confirmation program.

This last weekend was the LDS “general conference” and I noticed that every single one of my LDS friends from childhood was posting their excitement and joy about it. All are still actively practicing their faith and raising Mormon familes. They are excited about their religion and proud of it. In contrast, I can’t think of many people from my Catholic high school that still practice even a nominal Catholicism. They are athiests, agnostics or non-denoms. Dozens of them posted the pro-gay meme last week, and I often see them supporting causes that oppose Catholic teaching. These are kids that went to 13 years of Catholic school (in the 80s and 90s) I even notice them mocking Catholicism on FB. It’s so sad.

Where did we go wrong? Why is our attrition so high? Out of a class of 200, there are maybe 2-3 students still actively practicing. How did the Mormons, for all intents and purposes a cult, get this so right? Their religion is also patriarchal, and has a lot of lifetyle limits - it’s certainly not an easy breezy faith to follow. It’s a big commitment to be a Mormon. What can we learn from them? I’m scared for my kids. Terrified, actually.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

You answered the question yourself in the last paragraph when you said it’s a cult. Cults aren’t exactly known for people just leaving because they’ve gradually realized that it’s just not for them.

(That said I myself have complex views on the LDS church and would not be as quick to label it a cult, but I think a lot of the elements at play in a cult are present in the Mormon church and culture.)

 

[The_Bucket]

I think BLE is on point. And I really don’t care for labeling the LDS as a cult. There’s a huge difference between “cult” and legitimate religion. I’d say that the LDS is not a cult but is nevertheless extremely rigid in many of its practices.

I’d also note that, well, there are less LDS than there are Catholics. There are 1.2 billion Catholics in the world. About a quarter of Americans are Catholic, at least in name. When you have these kind of high numbers you’d expect some attrition. And some reversion. And some conversion! You don’t see a lot of people converting to Mormonism.

Rigidity demands conformity and there’s a lot of fear in Mormonism I think. Fear of being cast out. Fear of losing the connections that being part of the LDS “church” can provide, especially for young men looking to get into the workforce. There’s no such thing as a “social LDS” as there is a “social Jew” but the benefits are just as real. Plenty of practicing LDS are in high places in government and in the business world. Mitt Romney, Jon Huntsman, Steve Young. These guys all know each other. Or if they don’t, they see being LDS as a genuine common bond that allows for someone to get their foot in the door. Being chucked out of this kind of club can be quite scary.

JM, all I can say is take heart and do not be afraid. This is nothing new. We had folks break away from the Church very early on and go into some super crazy stuff like Gnosticism. We had the Great Schism. We had the Reformation. And yet, we’re still standing. Roman Catholicism is still (probably) the world’s largest individual religion; Sunni Islam is pretty close.

The Church is exploding with growth in Africa. It’s holding its own in Latin America. It’s slow death in Europe is true and the stagnation in North America is real, but Asia is starting to pick up speed as well.

As for why attrition is so high in your case, I don’t know. Probably because it becomes increasingly difficult to be a good Catholic and a good person in general as one tries to figure out how to be an adult. People get into money, sex, fame, power, mindless pop culture, all kinds of stuff. It’s not like this is anything new either. Didn’t Christ decry the attachment to the material? Pretty sure He did. We’ve yet to all embrace the message and even those who do embrace the message fall short all the time.

I know a number of people who have remained good Catholics even if they’ve had stumbles along the way. I know one guy who went to my school who will be ordained as a transitional deacon this year. I know another who wants to be a lawyer so he can support pro-life causes. My best friend’s wife is a NFP instructor… and she’s a convert!

Do I know a lot of others who have abandoned the faith? Sure I do. Though most Catholics I know are more in the middle. They’ve yet to settle down as I have so they more or less coast. Those who have gotten families have reverted a bit. My own brother in law pretty much quit going to Mass but now that he’s in a serious relationship, he’s starting to rethink that. Another brother in law got discouraged about the faith a few years back but now he’s on fire for it. Patience!

Again, do your best to be not afraid and keep your heart at peace. The Lord is with you and with us.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

I have noticed this trend as well. I’m glad that I’m not alone in experiencing it b/c it is indeed sad.

I went to Catholic grade and high school and I will say that most of the people I went to school with do NOT practice their faith. There are a few who are very devout but on the whole most have either left the Church for a Protestant community or just don’t attend any church…some have grown to really hate the Church. I don’t keep in much contact with many people from high school but I’ve noticed it on facebook mainly.

we dont’ have a big LDS community here but we have lots of those non-denominational mega churches around and I think that plays a role at times.

lots of people I recently unfriended on facebook posted the marriage equality sign…and that was the final straw for me…I wasn’t really good friends with many of them anyways and I just would rather grow in friendship with those who believe similar things as I do.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

You don’t see a lot of people converting to Mormonism.

I agree more or less with almost everything except this. This is completely wrong. Due to their very active missionary efforts they are the fastest growing religion in US history.

But that goes back to some of the stronger cult-like issues. Almost every male goes on a 2 year mission trip. It isn’t required exactly, but good luck finding a Mormon wife or being a full member of your community if you don’t.

usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2012-05-02/religion-census-mromon/54701198/1

 

[The_Bucket]

I just would rather grow in friendship with those who believe similar things as I do.

I understand that doing this is easier. But it’s not the path Christ called us to walk. If you mean that you want to keep your “inner circle” to those who believe the same things, well sure. Christ did the same with the Apostles. But Christ did not limit His preaching and His friendship to those who believed in Him. His friendship is extended to the rest of the world. So must ours.

I assure you that it’s way easier for me to write this than to actually live it. Isn’t that the case with so many things? I don’t live out this Gospel teaching in my own life enough. I just fear putting myself out there, you know? Strangely, however, when I do… I feel better. Even if I am met with vitriol. I must respond to that invective with peace.

Pope Francis may yet serve as a great model for us. More and more people are coming up to me on a day to day basis saying that they don’t agree with the Church on X, Y, Z but they really respect the heck out of Pope Francis for walking the walk. I’m sure that someday he’ll talk about “controversial social issues” but I trust that he will do so in a way that stands up for the doctrine while providing pastoral concern for all. That’s what loving the sinner and hating the sin is all about. Giving love while getting nothing in return. Giving love even when that love is twisted and everyone announces it as hate.

 

[The_Bucket]

I agree more or less with almost everything except this. This is completely wrong. Due to their very active missionary efforts they are the fastest growing religion in US history.

It is easy to grow quickly when your base is small. I meant in actual numbers, not percentages. I was not clear on that matter.

It isn’t required exactly, but good luck finding a Mormon wife or being a full member of your community if you don’t.

Exactly right. Stigma, stigma, stigma. There’s no Reconciliation in LDS. Fear keeps the local systems in line, to steal a phrase from Star Wars. I’m sure there is plenty of love in those homes; loss aversion subconscious and it runs deep in groups where adherence to a certain paradigm is essentially to maintaining what one has.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

I understand that doing this is easier. But it’s not the path Christ called us to walk. If you mean that you want to keep your “inner circle” to those who believe the same things, well sure. Christ did the same with the Apostles. But Christ did not limit His preaching and His friendship to those who believed in Him. His friendship is extended to the rest of the world. So must ours.

you are right! I think for me I do need that core group of people to relate to and to lean on for support. I think I’m just sad by the fact that so many have left and I honestly have no clue what to do about it. I’m not the best at apologetics lol!

right now I’m having a hard time b/c the profession that I chose to enter (Massage Therapy) attracts ALOT of new age/wiccan/pagan people and that is extremely hard get out of once you dabble in it…

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

I would not overlook the fact that one could attend - join even - a Catholic parish for 20 years, and no one would even greet you by name. Say what you will about the LDS, they do have community. I don’t think out attrition rate would be so high if people felt truly fed, felt that they truly belonged.

 

[Suslar]

I think Catholic schools owe many, many parents a refund!
In 13 years (K-12) didn’t learn much other than “Jesus loves you” Good grief!

 

[Rose74]

I grew up in a town that has a significant LDS presence, and I still live here. I had many LDS friends growing up in local schools and in my neighborhood, mostly because my parents trusted their family values and conservative households. I am still in touch with many of these people on Facebook and in person.

I also have many Catholic friends that I met when I switched to Catholic schools and through our confirmation program.

This last weekend was the LDS “general conference” and I noticed that every single one of my LDS friends from childhood was posting their excitement and joy about it. All are still actively practicing their faith and raising Mormon familes. They are excited about their religion and proud of it. In contrast, I can’t think of many people from my Catholic high school that still practice even a nominal Catholicism. They are athiests, agnostics or non-denoms. Dozens of them posted the pro-gay meme last week, and I often see them supporting causes that oppose Catholic teaching. These are kids that went to 13 years of Catholic school (in the 80s and 90s) I even notice them mocking Catholicism on FB. It’sso sad.

Where did we go wrong? Why is our attrition so high? Out of a class of 200, there are maybe 2-3 students still actively practicing. How did the Mormons, for all intents and purposes a cult, get this so right? Their religion is also patriarchal, and has a lot of lifetyle limits - it’s certainly not an easy breezy faith to follow. It’s a big commitment to be a Mormon. What can we learn from them? I’m scared for my kids. Terrified, actually.

I know what you mean. Most of the people I know stopped practicing after high school and came back nominally to send their kids to Catholic school. My experience was that our school had a focus on Christian Service and most of my classmates still see social justice issues as important. Many of them would say marriage equality is a social justice issue.
However, I wouldn’t look to the LDS as a great example. My husband comes from a huge LDS family. Of the six kids in his family, only his brother is an active Mormon. Several of his cousins have left the LDS church too. Those that stayed are very committed. With Mormons, you are either in or you’re out. Many stay out of fear of eternal separation from their families if they don’t adhere perfectly to mormon doctrine. They also discourage socializing with non-mormons. Mormon teens marry each other almost straight after high school or during their missions. I know plenty of divorced Mormons. For all their “family values”, divorce is encouraged when one spouse leaves the church.

Maybe with things like Life Teen and better Newman Centers on campuses, Catholic young adults with marry each other. Better catechism lessons for teens and continued study in college might make a difference. For all I know, that might be the case today. I’ve been out of high school for 20 years.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

I would not overlook the fact that one could attend - join even - a Catholic parish for 20 years, and no one would even greet you by name. Say what you will about the LDS, they do have community. I don’t think out attrition rate would be so high if people felt truly fed, felt that they truly belonged.

This!

it’s really important to foster a sense of community within a parish. Unfortunately some of the really big parishes get to be cliquey at times and that is a big turn off for some people.

 

[Cojuanco]

I grew up in a town that has a significant LDS presence, and I still live here. I had many LDS friends growing up in local schools and in my neighborhood, mostly because my parents trusted their family values and conservative households. I am still in touch with many of these people on Facebook and in person.

I also have many Catholic friends that I met when I switched to Catholic schools and through our confirmation program.

This last weekend was the LDS “general conference” and I noticed that every single one of my LDS friends from childhood was posting their excitement and joy about it. All are still actively practicing their faith and raising Mormon familes. They are excited about their religion and proud of it. In contrast, I can’t think of many people from my Catholic high school that still practice even a nominal Catholicism. They are athiests, agnostics or non-denoms. Dozens of them posted the pro-gay meme last week, and I often see them supporting causes that oppose Catholic teaching. These are kids that went to 13 years of Catholic school (in the 80s and 90s) I even notice them mocking Catholicism on FB. It’s so sad.

Where did we go wrong? Why is our attrition so high? Out of a class of 200, there are maybe 2-3 students still actively practicing. How did the Mormons, for all intents and purposes a cult, get this so right? Their religion is also patriarchal, and has a lot of lifetyle limits - it’s certainly not an easy breezy faith to follow. It’s a big commitment to be a Mormon. What can we learn from them? I’m scared for my kids. Terrified, actually.

I don’t know about your neck of the woods, but there’s plenty Jack Mormons (think their version of CINOs) round here.

Why the attrition? Simple. We tried so hard to be like everyone else (understandable given nativism in this country) - and we succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.

As to social justice in Catholic schools - nothing wrong with that. But what seems to me to be not taught well that social justice and the Catholic conception of the family are all one piece - after all, is not protecting the unborn merely an aspect of social justice?

 

[mandajane]

A thing to remember is that the LDS church has this whole thing about shunning and disowning children who leave the church. Catholicism doesn’t. So, a large portion of retention has to do with that fear, I think.

 

[Suslar]

A thing to remember is that the LDS church has this whole thing about shunning and disowning children who leave the church. Catholicism doesn’t. So, a large portion of retention has to do with that fear, I think.

That is a really good point.
I wonder if the other side of that equation is that at least they explain what they know to their kids and make them memorize it. any member of the LDS church can rattle off what they believe and why AND cite Scripture for what they believe. How many Catholics can do that? Used to be that we could say if a Catholic just recites the Creed, it contains the essence of everything we believe - but how many can do that now with the new translation?

 

[JackieMom]

I would not overlook the fact that one could attend - join even - a Catholic parish for 20 years, and no one would even greet you by name. Say what you will about the LDS, they do have community. I don’t think out attrition rate would be so high if people felt truly fed, felt that they truly belonged.

Yeah. That actually happened to us. 7 years of weekly attendance (and donations), and when I went on extended bedrest for preterm labor no one was the wiser. My mom put my name on the “sick and in distress” list, and it was in the bulletin for a month. Not one person from the parish called. There are organizations one can join, Bible studies, etc. but you will never be known by name if you’re “just” a parishioner.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I grew up in a town that has a significant LDS presence, and I still live here. I had many LDS friends growing up in local schools and in my neighborhood, mostly because my parents trusted their family values and conservative households. I am still in touch with many of these people on Facebook and in person.

I also have many Catholic friends that I met when I switched to Catholic schools and through our confirmation program.

This last weekend was the LDS “general conference” and I noticed that every single one of my LDS friends from childhood was posting their excitement and joy about it. All are still actively practicing their faith and raising Mormon familes. They are excited about their religion and proud of it. In contrast, I can’t think of many people from my Catholic high school that still practice even a nominal Catholicism. They are athiests, agnostics or non-denoms. Dozens of them posted the pro-gay meme last week, and I often see them supporting causes that oppose Catholic teaching. These are kids that went to 13 years of Catholic school (in the 80s and 90s) I even notice them mocking Catholicism on FB. It’s so sad.

Where did we go wrong? Why is our attrition so high? Out of a class of 200, there are maybe 2-3 students still actively practicing. How did the Mormons, for all intents and purposes a cult, get this so right? Their religion is also patriarchal, and has a lot of lifetyle limits - it’s certainly not an easy breezy faith to follow. It’s a big commitment to be a Mormon. What can we learn from them? I’m scared for my kids. Terrified, actually.

That’s just the thing. Cults HAVE to be that way in order to keep people involved.

Remember, there are 1.2 BILLION with a B Catholics on the planet. And more young people are on fire for their faith than ever before. The WorldWide Youth Day is coming up. Watch EWTN for coverage of that. Let not your heart be troubled!!!

We do not need to learn anything from Mormons, thank you very much.

 

[Rose74]

Yeah. That actually happened to us. 7 years of weekly attendance (and donations), and when I went on extended bedrest for preterm labor no one was the wiser. My mom put my name on the “sick and in distress” list, and it was in the bulletin for a month. Not one person from the parish called. There are organizations one can join, Bible studies, etc. but you will never be known by name if you’re “just” a parishioner.

Yes, quite true. My parents have been members of the same parish for 45 years and only know a few people because they never belonged to any group. The flip side of this is that my former mormon husband hasn’t stepped foot in an LDS church in 13 years, and yet we get people at our door a couple times a year trying to persuade him to return. Pretty annoying after telling them “thanks, but no thanks” the first dozen times.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I agree more or less with almost everything except this. This is completely wrong. ** Due to their very active missionary efforts they are the fastest growing religion in US history.
**
But that goes back to some of the stronger cult-like issues. Almost every male goes on a 2 year mission trip. It isn’t required exactly, but good luck finding a Mormon wife or being a full member of your community if you don’t.

usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2012-05-02/religion-census-mromon/54701198/1

Especially amongst the dead and buried…

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I would not overlook the fact that one could attend - join even - a Catholic parish for 20 years, and no one would even greet you by name. Say what you will about the LDS, they do have community. I don’t think out attrition rate would be so high if people felt truly fed, felt that they truly belonged.

If you don’t introduce YOURSELF to anyone in 20 years, SHAME ON YOU! Get into ministries, join the choir, be an usher, join the women’s or men’s club, teach RCIA, teach catechism, work in the nursery. Work on the parish carnival committee. Sheesh folks, you gotta take some responsibility for yourself!