A sad sign of the times?

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Fergal

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Hi Folks!

I have just had one sad morning and I really need to clear my head. I am looking for prayers for myself and the confessor I met this morning.

I went to confession in order to prepare for the New Year.

A little background first.

My wife had a baby only 4 weeks ago and now feels ready to resume marital relations. Neither of us prescribe to nor believe in artificial contraception. I am probably more staunch on this aspect. I am willing to wait and learn about NFP whilst my wife believes it ok to be mutually satisfying without intercourse.
Let’s just say that recently I gave into temptation and the hugs and cuddles lead to an act that was not procreative. To clear my conscience and my soul and prepare for the New Year.

I am a daily communicant and carefully watch my state of being.

I brought all this to Confession this morning only to be told that I was imposing my fundamentalist views on my wife and that my fundamentalism really annoyed him. He became very agitated and told me that the Church did not have all the answers to contraception but that I should use my conscience and not be so easily led. He kept asking in a forceful manner “Who is the problem in this marriage?” To which he answered “You are” He said the views I hold are gone and that I needed to wake up and live in the real world.

He covered his tracks a bit and said he was not saying that contraception was good or bad but that it is an ideal of the Church and really a very outdated one at that.

Now I was completely shocked. I stopped him and said that Church teaching may be idealistic but ideals were there to aspire to and that Christ and Holy Mother Church realised that it would not be easy and therefore provided the Confessional for guidance and absolution when we fell short of these ideals.

He said also that my black and white views on morality were a sledgehammer in my marriage and that we needed marriage counseling. he told me that my following the Church’s teachings so rigidly would damage our marriage.

His tone was abrupt and lacking any compassion.

He asked me if I ever heard a Priest denounce contraception to which I answered ‘Yes Father, many times both in this Church and in others’ he was startled and said ‘Really?’ I went on then to tell him that Pope John Paul II many times reminded us of the consistant church teaching that artificial contraception was intrinsically disordered and since that teaching has been placed in many encyclicals that was what my wife and I would continue to aspire to.

At this he went silent for a few moments. At this stage I had enough and was actually prepared to be denied absolution so I continued “Father, I have had cancer twice and was told that I would never father a child again. I should not be here. Only 4 weeks ago God blessed us with a new bundle of joy and therefore has made it clear that he is very present in our Marriage. I never doubted He was there i just didn’t recognise Him but now I do. Father, I kneel here before you cancer free and I owe my healing from cancer to the presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament through frequent reception of Holy Communion. I am not willing to throw God’s grace back in his face when he has made it abundantly clear that He loves me. I love the Church deeply and I will always strive to follow her teachings come what may.”

With this, I, for the first time ever, broke down and wept.

He finished by telling me “Well I suppose none of us has a monopoly on the truth” (Whatever that meant) and he asked me to make an act of contrition.

Leaving the Confessional he wished me the best of luck.

My heart is very heavy as I write this and I simply ask your prayers.
 
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Fergal:
Hi Folks!

I have just had one sad morning and I really need to clear my head. I am looking for prayers for myself and the confessor I met this morning.
Fergal, I am so sorry you had to experience this. I have heard of others experiencing similar.

I believe it is possible that God intended for a person so strong in the faith and understanding of its doctrines to encounter this priest. While the effects of your confession may not hit him right away, you are right that we should pray for this priest, that the grace of God enlighten him so that he may grasp the fullness of Truth as taught in Humanae Vitae, and reaffirmed by Pope John Paul II so many times in Theology of the Body and elsewhere. What comes to mind is St. Theresa of Avila who continued to go to the same confessor, whom everyone knew had a mistress, including her. She won his conversion through her own confessions, charity and compassion. I highly recommend brushing up on John Paul II Theology of the Body if you have not already. I would not intentionally go to this priest in the future, but if you end up with him, be able to cite the material out of charity and with compassion.

Only God knows what this priest was taught himself. We know how the seminaries have been - hardly supportive of the magisterium and often highly dissenting. However, all have access to the same information you and i do.

I will include him in my prayers and Rosaries.

You did well in citing your resources and standing your ground. It must have been very shocking. If it happens again, you may consider telling the priest, after citing doctrine, that you have no choice but to report the incident to the bishop because he is promoting heresy (if that is the correct application of the word).

I believe it is heretical for any priest or Catholic to say that it is ok to have marital relations for anything that is not procreative and/or unitive.

Married couples may have sex without intending to have children through NFP, but if life is concepted in a particular act intending to be unitive only, then the couple must be open to that life and bring it forward to the best of their ability without hindering.

If you had intended a unitive act only, but would not hinder a life created in the act, then you likely did not sin. However, it is possible for lustful acts to take place, even within a marriage, for example when one spouse treats another merely as an object.

Any sex act that does not end with vaginal intercourse, with potential to give life, is indeed considered gravely sinful.
 
When was this priest ordained? Is he a young priest?

I am a Lay Carmelite who has had to put up with heterodox nonsense from our Carmelite priests who were ordained in the 60’s and 70’s. In fact, the Carmelite Order, like a good many others with the majority of people from that era, are dying out.

Our young priests at our parish are quite orthodox and would never have given you this kind of nonsense for advise. So, it’s not really a sign of our current times but of an earlier time that has passed, thank God!

I love what G. K. Chesterton said about people with your confessor’s attitude. He said that the man who marries the spirit of the age will find himself a widower in the next age. Ha! And isn’t that the truth?
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
Fergal, I am so sorry you had to experience this. I have heard of others experiencing similar.
Fergal,
I too am sorry to hear of this. I’m aware that this sort of negative thing has been going on here and there for 30 years.
Pray for priests and in the meantime ask God to lead you in the right direction.
Contemplative
 
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Della:
When was this priest ordained? Is he a young priest?

I am a Lay Carmelite who has had to put up with heterodox nonsense from our Carmelite priests who were ordained in the 60’s and 70’s. In fact, the Carmelite Order, like a good many others with the majority of people from that era, are dying out.

Our young priests at our parish are quite orthodox and would never have given you this kind of nonsense for advise. So, it’s not really a sign of our current times but of an earlier time that has passed, thank God!

I love what G. K. Chesterton said about people with your confessor’s attitude. He said that the man who marries the spirit of the age will find himself a widower in the next age. Ha! And isn’t that the truth?
Yeah. he is only a few years ordained and this parish is his second appointment.
 
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Fergal:
Hi Folks!

I have just had one sad morning and I really need to clear my head. I am looking for prayers for myself and the confessor I met this morning.

He finished by telling me “Well I suppose none of us has a monopoly on the truth” (Whatever that meant) and he asked me to make an act of contrition.

.
It is very common for up to date, modern right and thinking people in the Church to say that no one has a monoply on the truth. That way they feel justified in whatever they believe because there is no way of knowing what the truth really is. This is too, too sad
 
Wow! It sounds like God may have been using you to do a little educating in the confessional. This may have been the only good teachings he has ever gotten! We’ve had some wonderful priests from Ireland. Too bad yours didn’t go to the same seminary!
 
It sounds like God put you there in that situation to be a witness to the priest. Sometimes we forget that even a priest or Bishop needs continual conversion. Your courage in the confessional was heroic to say the least and I comend you greatly. Pray for yoru priest that he may come to know truth ever the better.
 
Of course!! I never thought of it like that.

My pride did blind me.

Thanks folks!
 
Dear Friend,
This likewise happened to me a few years ago, not only did the priest tell me I was wrong but he told me the Holy Father was wrong, on top of this he told me I was a fanatic, which I replied to him that Jesus was also, this slowed him down but not much he was frothing at the mouth practicly. I really wondered if he was going to hit me, I have since found out that he has a girlfriend and obviously neeeds my prayers and sacrafices. I tell you the first time this happens it shocks the heck out of you.
God bless you my friend. 🙂
 
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palmas85:
It is very common for up to date, modern right and thinking people in the Church to say that no one has a monoply on the truth. That way they feel justified in whatever they believe because there is no way of knowing what the truth really is. This is too, too sad
Hopefully, he meant he was the one taught a lesson and, even though he was a Priest, he apparently still needs to be taught a few things… Hopefully :gopray:
 
Wow. You know Fergal, I really agree with those that said maybe you were there for a reason. Maybe God saw you, a good, kind man struggling to live his life by the teachings of Christ’s church, as so many of us are, and saw also this priest who was perhaps leading others in the wrong direction with his (dare I say) heretical views. He then led you two together, one to offer you absolution, and two to educate this priest on what he is doing wrong. You never know, you could have inspired this priest to investigate this matter further and maybe he’s sitting home right now, thoughtfully reading Humanae Vitae…(I know, wishful thinking 😃 )

It’s sad when those that are supposed to be the leaders have to be guided by the followers, but…we’re all human and all sinners. You may have helped this young priest more than you know. I think it took courage and smarts to say what you said.

I betcha our Lord is really proud of you.

You have my prayers and God Bless. 🙂
 
Fergal, thank God for the grace He gave you to witness to the truth with that poor priest.

I agree with the other posters who say that God led you to that priest for a purpose. We now need to pray that he will recognize the truth of what you witnessed to him.

As St. Josemaria Escriva would say - there are no bad priests. There are some sick priests and some crazy priests. We must love them and pray for them.
 
Wow

I agree with other posters here as well. I am new to the faith - Easter I will be official 👍 - but I do see that perhaps God put you there at that time to be a witness. We are one Body, and all are human - even Priests 😃 and all (hopefully) open to the Spirit in conversion. Congratulations (Right word?) on sticking to the Truth. I have prayed for this Priest, and for you as well to maintain your (our) ground in the face of this reletivism (sp?)

Peace

John
 
Good grief, Fergal! I can’t believe you were spoken to in this manner! Are you sure it was a Catholic priest with whom you spoke? I had to read your post twice to make sure I didn’t misunderstand.

Well, suffice it to say that what the Lord says yesterday is still true today and it’ll still be true tomorrow.
 
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ChristianWAB:
Good grief, Fergal! I can’t believe you were spoken to in this manner! Are you sure it was a Catholic priest with whom you spoke? I had to read your post twice to make sure I didn’t misunderstand.

Well, suffice it to say that what the Lord says yesterday is still true today and it’ll still be true tomorrow.
Yes it was a Catholic Priest. I am still having moments of ‘flashback’ to things that were said and you know my soul has been thrown into a sort of confusion or ‘limbo’. I had often heard that there were Priests who openly scorned at the ideals of the Church and to that day I never met one. I pray for him often and I know he is a good man. His Mass is always beautiful and reverentially said when he officiates.

Darkness can cloud the Confessional and I believe it did so that day. After all it was Paul IV that said the smoke of satan has entered the Church.

There were and still are days of darkness in my soul after that experience. I began to think ‘sod it all’ I don’t have to do this. I don’t haveto maintain the often very tough battle for holiness.

I feel so confused and dazed and as I said already I feel like I am in limbo. I am suprised with myself that I continue to feel this way. I did think I was stronger than all this. The Lord has something He wishes to teach me. Pray that I may have the ears to listen and the heart to accept.

Pray for me also that I may pick up again. I have confession today.
 
Fergal,

I’m really sorry you had to go through that. I’ll pray for you, and the priest who is obviously seriously misguided or was having a really bad day.

You stood up for the faith wonderfully in a difficult situation. Its not easy to go up against a priest on matters of faith and doctrine. I don’t know if I would have been able to do the same in that situation. I think God is very happy with you.

We’re with you. God bless.
 
Hang in there, Fergal. I admire your behavior much more than I do some of the priests around here. I understand that running into the attitudes of that goofy priest in the circumstances of going to Confession would take the wind out of most people’s sails, tho. It sounds as tho you made him think again about his own ideas, but I am sorry you ran into this.
 
Fergal,

I have always been impressed with your words here on the CA boards. You have a gift of succinctly cutting through confusing posts and responding simply and truthfully. You are, my friend, an apologist.

Could God be asking you to use that gift in other arenas? (I have no idea what types of ministries you are involved in with your parish or diocese, btw.)

I would encourage you to use those “flashback” moments as reminders to pray–that very intstant–for that priest and others like him. And then throw in a prayer for some other good, orthodox, righteous priest. And while you’re at it, throw in another prayer for vocations! 🙂

God bless you. And congratulations on your new baby!
 
Thank you all for your very kind and encouraging words. i went to Confession yesterday and once again ‘cleared the slate’

I have prayed for this Priest, whom I still very much admire because of his wonderful dedication to the Holy Mass.

We all need prayers and I know it happened for a reason. I only hope now that if it ever happens again God will enlighten beforehand!!! 😛

This feast day teaches us all to give our very best to God, just as the Wise Men did.

God bless you all and thank you again.
 
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