A Saint's Bones

[creekmore]

I have been Catholic for 23 years now and I wasn’t taught this and I had never heard it before until last Friday at dinner with some friends. Is it true that in every catholic church there are some bones from a saint buried or in a box inside the church?

 

[CatholicNick]

I have been Catholic for 23 years now and I wasn’t taught this and I had never heard it before until last Friday at dinner with some friends. Is it true that in every catholic church there are some bones from a saint buried or in a box inside the church?

Every Altar should have an Altar Stone with the Relics of a Saint inside it, this should be a First Class Relic, such as a bone etc.

 

[LilyM]

Every Altar should have an Altar Stone with the Relics of a Saint inside it, this should be a First Class Relic, such as a bone etc.

There’s actually a reference in scripture in support of this - Revelation 6:9:

‘And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God …’ in other words under the heavenly altar lie the relics of martyrs.

Also comes from the earliest days of Christianity where Mass would be said in the catacombs (burial chambers) - literally on the sarchophagi (gravestones) of the martyrs.

 

[LilyM]

There’s actually a reference in scripture in support of this -

Revelation 6:9: ‘And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God …’ in other words under the heavenly altar lie the bodies of martyrs.

Also comes from the earliest days of Christianity where Mass would be said in the catacombs (burial chambers) - literally on the sarchophagi (gravestones) of the martyrs.

 

[Didi]

Thank you, LilyM. I always wondered where this tradition came from!

 

[boppysbud]

I have seen a lot of relics, venerated my share, and in the case of every relic I have ever seen they were tiny, like specks, it would take a lot of imagination to see them as bones, maybe it would be more accurate to think of them as tiny fragments of bones instead of bones. I have seen(or kind of seen) a large section of a rib cage, of an ancient Roman Martyr, but it was inside of a wax statue of the Saint laying in state, you never saw the bones with your own eyes.

The sisters who had the rib cage have a large display of relics, but they are all tiny specks, none of them would be recognisable unless yoou were told what they were.

 

[jbuck919]

There are many churches with altars containing no relics. It is or should be obvious that there are not enough to go around. It is very far from a requirement.

When relics are available, there is a separate ceremony from the dedcation of a church called the consecration of an altar. I know this because my home parish performed it. It was one of two parishes in the US named after St. Thomas of Canterbury, and some relics were donated.

This does, however, raise the issue of authenticity. St. Thomas was one of the great pilgrimage saints of the late medieval period. I’m sure there were many fake relics. On top of that, his tomb was desecrated by Henry VIII, which puts even what might have been authentic into doubt. Does the church require that relics be authenticated? No. The Shroud of Turin has been shown to be a forgery, but it is still allowed as an object of veneration. The point is symbolic significance combined with a history of veneration. Thus I can’t rob a grave and start sending the bones around as belonging to some saint. That would be both fraud and sacrilege. And I can’t make up my own object of veneration as have so many people who have had alleged but false apparitions of the Virgin Mary in recent years. But I can venerate the cape of Our Lady of Guadalupe because it has a long history of sincere veneration by millions and represents a beautiful and edifying story of Our Lady whether it is true or not.

 

[cheddarsox]

I have a related question. I picked up a copy of the book “The Incorruptables” recently at the suggestion of someone on these forums. In reading it, I learned that numerous bodies of saints were cut up specifically for the distribution of relics to churches. This somewhat confused me as I always believed that the Catholic church taught that bodies were to be kept together, buried, or if creamated, the ashes interred all together.

Is it only after canonization that it is acceptable to divide the body for sacred use?

cheddar

 

[mcliffor]

There are many churches with altars containing no relics. It is or should be obvious that there are not enough to go around. It is very far from a requirement.

When relics are available, there is a separate ceremony from the dedcation of a church called the consecration of an altar. I know this because my home parish performed it. It was one of two parishes in the US named after St. Thomas of Canterbury, and some relics were donated.

I believe that from the time of Charlemagne up until the reforms following VII, relics were a requirement for an altar. There also had to be 5 crosses chiseled into the stone and the relics, (at first just of martyrs, but later any first class relics) were placed in a tiny cavity, called a sepulchre, along with incense, and sealed. Altars were always made of stone, and a portable altar stone was a stone about the size of a piece of paper, like a marble tile. The altar was consecrated in an elaborate ceremony, where the bishop rubbed oil on the stone and burned incense on the five crosses.
http://www.stmaryscity.org/ChapelProgress/images/altarstone.jpg

Now, eventhough Church altars are still consecrated with oil, the crosses, relics and stone are all optional. The one in my church is wood.
As for there not being enough relics, we have to remember, that these relics are shaped like specs. The Vatican no longer distributes them for private devotion, though some religious orders still do. This means that there is an enormous collection of relics already divided up, and parish priest can request them. Plus, because new saints are always being canonized, there will always be more and more relics. More than enough to go around. You’d be surprised at how easily some of these relics are dispensed. When my home parish undwent renovation a few years ago, they had no use for the old altar stone. I got to see it, and there was a tiny piece of paper taped to the top giving the date of consecration and saying it contained relics of the famous martyrs Perpetua and Felicity.

In short, if your parish was constructed before 1969, and it has the old altar, there are relics sealed inside.

 

[decn2b]

Our altar has the stone (1’X1’ slab) embedded into the top of the altar with the five crosses (represents the five major churches of Christendom) and a reliquary plug…(about the diameter of a golf ball) There is no record in our church as to whos relics are in the altar stone but my deacon says a phone call to the chancery would solve the mystery. Perhaps I will give em a call. Of course many people think that the name of the church is the identity of the relics which in my case is impossible our church is called St. Marys:bigyikes:

 

[jbuck919]

I believe that from the time of Charlemagne up until the reforms following VII, relics were a requirement for an altar. There also had to be 5 crosses chiseled into the stone and the relics, (at first just of martyrs, but later any first class relics) were placed in a tiny cavity, called a sepulchre, along with incense, and sealed. Altars were always made of stone, and a portable altar stone was a stone about the size of a piece of paper, like a marble tile. The altar was consecrated in an elaborate ceremony, where the bishop rubbed oil on the stone and burned incense on the five crosses.
http://www.stmaryscity.org/ChapelProgress/images/altarstone.jpg

Now, eventhough Church altars are still consecrated with oil, the crosses, relics and stone are all optional. The one in my church is wood.
As for there not being enough relics, we have to remember, that these relics are shaped like specs. The Vatican no longer distributes them for private devotion, though some religious orders still do. This means that there is an enormous collection of relics already divided up, and parish priest can request them. Plus, because new saints are always being canonized, there will always be more and more relics. More than enough to go around. You’d be surprised at how easily some of these relics are dispensed. When my home parish undwent renovation a few years ago, they had no use for the old altar stone. I got to see it, and there was a tiny piece of paper taped to the top giving the date of consecration and saying it contained relics of the famous martyrs Perpetua and Felicity.

In short, if your parish was constructed before 1969, and it has the old altar, there are relics sealed inside.

The church to which I was referring was one of the early examples of a church in the round with a free standing altar. However, this was/is made of very solid granite and quite impressive. It was designed to accept relics in the manner you indicate. I do have to think in spite of what you write that in a world with many tens of thousands of dedicated churches those reliquaries were not always filled. For example, the 19th century church which it replaced had no relics of St. Thomas. The ones put in the new “sepulchre” were a donation from a source in Europe obtained through connections.

Also, what relics would there be in a church dedicated to a theological concept such as the Trinity or the Assumption?

 

[CatholicNick]

Our altar has the stone (1’X1’ slab) embedded into the top of the altar with the five crosses (represents the five major churches of Christendom) and a reliquary plug…(about the diameter of a golf ball) There is no record in our church as to whos relics are in the altar stone but my deacon says a phone call to the chancery would solve the mystery. Perhaps I will give em a call. Of course many people think that the name of the church is the identity of the relics which in my case is impossible our church is called St. Marys:bigyikes:

The 5 Crosses represent the 5 Wounds of Our Blessed Lord I believe.

 

[mcliffor]

The church to which I was referring was one of the early examples of a church in the round with a free standing altar. However, this was/is made of very solid granite and quite impressive. It was designed to accept relics in the manner you indicate. I do have to think in spite of what you write that in a world with many tens of thousands of dedicated churches those reliquaries were not always filled. For example, the 19th century church which it replaced had no relics of St. Thomas. The ones put in the new “sepulchre” were a donation from a source in Europe obtained through connections.

Also, what relics would there be in a church dedicated to a theological concept such as the Trinity or the Assumption?

I don’t believe the relics have much to do with the name or dedication of the church. The one I mentioned above, with the relics of Perpetua and Felicity were in a Church dedicated to Christ the King. I think it might be different in Roman Churches built on top of saints tombs, but usually it’s just a “relic of a saint,” no saint in particular.