A secular case against gay marriage

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RevDon said:
It was a rambling, just as this whole argument about human extinction has been a pointless ramble.
In the example I posted, I demonstrated a clear and present danger to the continued existence of the human race: the inhalation of Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere. I enumerated the various harmful results, which can lead to death.
Then I noted that human beings create Carbon Dioxide as they exhale. On the basis of that I concluded several silly positions that could be taken on the basis of the argument that actions that promote the good of humanity should be supported and activities contrary to the good of humanity should be banned.

If you promote breathing, then you are promoting something harmful to the common good, because it could lead to the extinction of humankind.
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Do we promote what is harmful to the common good?
Is human extinction good?
 
Stephen168 said:
I did and answered it in post 131
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So you agree that your criterion of ‘extinction if everyone did it’ would also apply to celibate Catholic religious and because of that, such actions fall under the same criticism as same sex marriage?

Or do you think that the human race would not go extinct if everyone was celibate?

rossum
 
RevDon said:
The breathing example
Just war
execution of criminals
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The “breathing example” was invented by someone ignorant of the ecosystem. People knowledgeable of the ecosystem know that is why we do not PROMOTE air pollution, and why we PROMOTE saving plant life.
We PROMOTE war and capital punishment as good things even though individuals in our society might disagree with the group/political decision.
rossum said:
So you agree that your criterion of ‘extinction if everyone did it’ would also apply to celibate Catholic religious and because of that, such actions fall under the same criticism as same sex marriage?
Or do you think that the human race would not go extinct if everyone was celibate?
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As I said in post 131, we PROMOTE farming and religion because they are good. I should have said we PROMOTE farming and charity because they are good, but it doesn’t change much. The Catholic Church is on equal footing with every other religion and charity which we also PROMOTE. We do not PROMOTE celibacy; we PROMOTE charity.
My understanding of the OP’s arguments that it is we should not PROMOTE any activity which is harmful to the common good.
The extinction of the human race is not good.
 
Stephen168 said:
The “breathing example” was invented by someone ignorant of the ecosystem. People knowledgeable of the ecosystem know that is why we do not PROMOTE air pollution, and why we PROMOTE saving plant life.
We PROMOTE war and capital punishment as good things even though individuals in our society might disagree with the group/political decision.

As I said in post 131, we PROMOTE farming and religion because they are good. I should have said we PROMOTE farming and charity because they are good, but it doesn’t change much. The Catholic Church is on equal footing with every other religion and charity which we also PROMOTE. We do not PROMOTE celibacy; we PROMOTE charity.
My understanding of the OP’s arguments that it is we should not PROMOTE any activity which is harmful to the common good.
The extinction of the human race is not good.
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So as a society we do promote some things that are evil and we make the determination of whether it should be promoted based on weighing out the balance of benefit versus harm?

To permit something that some might consider as evil is not the same as to promote it, but rather a lesser endorsement by society–Yes or no?

Human breathing creates Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere. True or false?
Carbon Dioxide is harmful to human beings- true or false?

Charity is a good for society-true or false?
Celibacy is required for charity- True or false?
Celibacy if adopted by all would result in the extinction of the human race- True or false?

Should we promote something that can result in some harm to the human race if it has aspects that are beneficial?
 
RevDon said:
So as a society we do promote some things that are evil and we make the determination of whether it should be promoted based on weighing out the balance of benefit versus harm?

To permit something that some might consider as evil is not the same as to promote it, but rather a lesser endorsement by society–Yes or no?

Human breathing creates Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere. True or false?
Carbon Dioxide is harmful to human beings- true or false?

Charity is a good for society-true or false?
Celibacy is required for charity- True or false?
Celibacy if adopted by all would result in the extinction of the human race- True or false?

Should we promote something that can result in some harm to the human race if it has aspects that are beneficial?
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Is English your first language?
 
RevDon said:
Should we promote something that can result in some harm to the human race if it has aspects that are beneficial?
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But this simply begs the question: What benefits do same-sex relationships provide that require their legal recognition as equal to marriage, and cannot be provided in any other way?
 
RevDon said:
Irrelevant to the discussion.
Do you have a response to the questions?
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It is relevant to some degree.
Your questions make me think you have have not read and understood post 186 that you quoted. Any answer I could come up with was already be said in post #186 that you quoted.

As a person having been in a leadership role, I know that when people can not accomplish a task they are either unable, unwilling, or both. So I wonder, are you unable to comprehend post 186 and respond to it, or are you unwilling. That is why I asked the question, Is English your first language?
 
Stephen168 said:
It is relevant to some degree.
Your questions make me think you have have not read and understood post 186 that you quoted. Any answer I could come up with was already be said in post #186 that you quoted.

As a person having been in a leadership role, I know that when people can not accomplish a task they are either unable, unwilling, or both. So I wonder, are you unable to comprehend post 186 and respond to it, or are you unwilling. That is why I asked the question, Is English your first language?
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186 does not answer the questions I asked.
Could you be more specific in addressing the questions, or do you perceive that the answers you give there might topple your house of cards?
 
RevDon said:
See posting 126
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That’s the benefits provided TO the married couple as a result of their choice to engage in a greater good: The propagation of society through children.

I’m asking about what benefits the same-sex couple provide to society that cannot be provided except through the legal recognition of same-sex relationships as “marriage”.
 
Monkey1976 said:
That’s the benefits provided TO the married couple as a result of their choice to engage in a greater good: The propagation of society through children.

I’m asking about what benefits the same-sex couple provide to society that cannot be provided except through the legal recognition of same-sex relationships as “marriage”.
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I noticed that too. It seems clear that they don’t care about benefiting society.
 
Stephen168 said:
Do we promote what is harmful to the common good?
Is human extinction good?
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That is the question you asked, presumably seekin an answer in the negative.
I replied with three examples in which we do promote what is harmful to the common good, and re-stated the argument :
So as a society we do promote some things that are evil and we make the determination of whether it should be promoted based on weighing out the balance of benefit versus harm?
to establish the basis of further discussion.
To re-state:
Do we as a society promote (or permit) things that might be to the detriment of the common good?
The examples I posted show that we do.
Then I tried to engage you in helping to determine on what basis that decision is made.

To permit something that some might consider as evil is not the same as to promote it, but rather a lesser endorsement by society–Yes or no?

I was reluctant to put words into your mouth, but I believe your answers to these questions are:
Human breathing creates Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere. True or false? TRUE
Carbon Dioxide is harmful to human beings- true or false? TRUE

Charity is a good for society-true or false? TRUE
Celibacy is required for charity- True or false? FALSE
Celibacy if adopted by all would result in the extinction of the human race- True or false? TRUE

Should we promote something that can result in some harm to the human race if it has aspects that are beneficial? YES

If you do not agree with my projections of your answers, you may post accordingly.
 
RevDon said:
That is the question you asked, presumably seekin an answer in the negative.
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See Post 182
RevDon said:
I replied with three examples in which we do promote what is harmful to the common good, and re-stated the argument :
So as a society we do promote some things that are evil and we make the determination of whether it should be promoted based on weighing out the balance of benefit versus harm?
to establish the basis of further discussion.
To re-state:
Do we as a society promote (or permit) things that might be to the detriment of the common good?
The examples I posted show that we do.
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No they did not. see post 186
RevDon said:
Then I tried to engage you in helping to determine on what basis that decision is made.
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No, you ignored post 186. For example:
Stephen168 said:
The “breathing example” was invented by someone ignorant of the ecosystem. People knowledgeable of the ecosystem know that is why we do not PROMOTE air pollution, and why we PROMOTE saving plant life.
Click to expand...
RevDon said:
Human breathing creates Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere. True or false?
Carbon Dioxide is harmful to human beings- true or false?
Click to expand...
See? You just repeat ignorance of the ecosystem like you did not comprehend post 186.
Stephen168 said:
As I said in post 131, we PROMOTE farming and religion because they are good. I should have said we PROMOTE farming and charity because they are good, but it doesn’t change much. The Catholic Church is on equal footing with every other religion and charity which we also PROMOTE. We do not PROMOTE celibacy; we PROMOTE charity.
Click to expand...
RevDon said:
Charity is a good for society-true or false?
Celibacy is required for charity- True or false?
Celibacy if adopted by all would result in the extinction of the human race- True or false?
Click to expand...
You ask questions already answered like you did not comprehend post 186.

Ask a question that was not answered already and applies to the OPs argument.

My understanding of the OP’s arguments that it is we should not PROMOTE any activity which is harmful to the common good.
The extinction of the human race is not good.
 
Stephen168 said:
1.See Post 182
  1. No they did not. see post 186
  2. No, you ignored post 186. For example:
4.See? You just repeat ignorance of the ecosystem like you did not comprehend post 186.
  1. You ask questions already answered like you did not comprehend post 186.
  2. Ask a question that was not answered already and applies to the OPs argument.
  3. My understanding of the OP’s arguments that it is we should not PROMOTE any activity which is harmful to the common good.
  4. The extinction of the human race is not good.
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My responses:
  1. Post 182:
    Do we promote what is harmful to the common good?
    Is human extinction good?
  2. Society does not promote just war? Society does not promote execution of convicts? Society does not promote breathing (I wrote nothing about an ecosystem; that’s your phrase)? Are these things not harm-causing?
  3. You changed the subject.
  4. You did not answer simple yes-no questions, but changed the subject.
  5. Answer and I’ll not have to repeat the questions.
  6. Does society ever allow actions that are harmful, which -taken to their extreme, even, can wipe out the human race?
  7. Perhaps the problem is that the proposition contains two negative terms: “should not” and “harmful” My contention is as follows:
    Society DOES consciously promote and permit actions which are harmful.
    Then I would go on to say that society does this because of what is perceived as a greater good.
  8. No, the extinction of the human race is not good, but same sex civil marriage is no threat to the continuation of the human race.
 
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