a series of questions if you could help me I would be ever so greatful

[PattyPryor]

So I thought I would ask the Gothard homeschool program questions because I was interested in what the Duggar Family teaches thier children. anyway. I wrote them a letter saying I was Catholic but would like to join and if I could since the process involves essays and a form etc. (I was only saying this I didn’t really want to join)

I was really taken aback from thier response because it is supposed to be a non domanation program.

ANYWAY this is what some of the things they said were and if possible could you all explain and tell me why cathiolics think differently. I will be so greatful if you could

Thank you for your inquiry.

ATI and IBLP (the parent organization) are nondenominational and there have been many Roman Catholics (including priests and nuns) who have attended and expressed appreciation for the Basic Seminar over the years, however, if you are a practicing Roman Catholic you would find the ATI Wisdom Booklets to be in tension with many significant points of orthodox Roman Catholic doctrine, polity, and practice.

For instance, the ATI curriculum will…

-…not support an exalted position for the virgin Mary (we believe Mary was highly favored by the Lord and was obedient to perform one of the highest roles a human has ever been asked to do in being the earthly mother of the Christ, but she was also a sinner who needed to be saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ the same way any one else must be saved; we believe that she also gave birth to other children by Joseph)

-…not support an exalted place for the position of pope, i.e., above any other bishop (elder or pastor); we hold the Word of God–the Bible to be of higher authority than any official church creed or doctrine or papal decree

-…not support a celibate clergy (we believe some were single, but that Peter among others was married)

-…not support the liturgy or symbolism of the mass, but rather will promote participation by believers in the taking of communion as a remembrance of our Lord’s broken body and shed blood (the elements being symbolic rather than actual body and blood)

-…not support the doctrine of purgatory or prayers for the dead

-…not support the baptism of infants

-…speak mostly favorably of the Reformers Martin Luther and John Calvin

The list could go on longer, but this may be sufficient for you to understand the challenges a Roman Catholic might find with joining ATI. If you were to apply, you would need to agree with ATI’s Statement of Faith without serious reservation. If that were the case, then, when your application is received, I would review it and probably need to have further communications with you to see if I could be convinced that your participation would not create problems for you or for us.

We believe faith is a matter of conscience for each person and we would not want to try to convince anyone to change their beliefs unless they felt it was God Himself through His Word and the ministry of the Holy Spirit who was leading them to do so.

Thank you again for your interest and may God bless you with a knowledge of His will for you in this matter.

Dwight M. Fredrickson, PhD
IBLP/ATI Administrative Director

 

[PattyPryor]

this is the statement of faith

Statement of Faith
what we believe
We believe in the one true God, existing in three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. These three are coequal from all eternity, each with distinct personalities, but of one essence.

We believe the Bible is the verbally inspired Word of God and is the sole, infallible rule of faith and practice.

We believe Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God, that He entered into the world through the virgin birth, and lived among us without sin as perfect Man and perfect God.

We believe Adam was directly created in innocence and in the image of God and did not evolve from preexisting forms of life. By voluntary transgression, he fell; and thus the whole human race is now sinful by nature and practice and, therefore, under just condemnation to eternal separation from God.

We believe Jesus Christ shed His blood on Calvary as a vicarious substitute for all sinners, was buried and rose again bodily, and ascended to the right hand of the Father, from whence He will personally return.

We believe people are justified by grace through faith in the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ without any mixture of works.

We believe the Holy Spirit convicts the sinner, regenerates, sanctifies, and indwells the believer, and fills the believer for effective service.

We believe in the priesthood of the believer and that God has made provision for each believer to be victorious by being led of the Spirit and not walking after the flesh.

We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost—the just unto the resurrection of life eternal and the lost unto the resurrection of eternal damnation.

We believe Satan is a living being and that hell is a place of eternal conscious punishment for him, his hosts, and all unbelievers.

We believe Scripture commands Christians to abstain from all forms of compromise with unbelief.

We believe the Bible sets forth principles for Godly living and that if one learns and follows these principles, one will be able to avoid and refute false teachings and false concepts.

 

[ryanoneil]

That is to much to try and refute. DON’T JOIN! They hardly believe anything that you do.

God bless you!

 

[1ke]

Patty–

What’s your question?

 

[Kitty_Chan]

We believe faith is a matter of conscience for each person and we would not want to try to convince anyone to change their beliefs unless they felt it was God Himself through His Word and the ministry of the Holy Spirit who was leading them to do so.

Thank you again for your interest and may God bless you with a knowledge of His will for you in this matter.

Dwight M. Fredrickson, PhD
IBLP/ATI Administrative Director

What a nice letter, laid it all out, let you know what you need and asked you to take it up prayerfully with God. You really cant ask for more. If you wanted to rufute anything its pointless. They already have declared in a kindly manner what the differences are. You have to decide if the rest of what they have is worth purchasing their program.

I guess you could not use the booklets on topics you dont agree with. Or maybe theres a Catholic version you could get elsewhere.

My Catholic friend signed up for a de cluttering course and the lady came to your house for a fee after. My friend invited me and her mom to meet the lady we found out she was Fung Shi. I called around even my friends main catholic office to see if there was a christian or at least a non religious approach. But there isnt. So finding things can be tough, good luck.

 

[Mirdath]

The long and the short of it is that they’re Protestants. ‘Non-denominational’ is shorthand for ‘Protestant but not necessarily following any specific, historic teaching’.

-…not support an exalted position for the virgin Mary (we believe Mary was highly favored by the Lord and was obedient to perform one of the highest roles a human has ever been asked to do in being the earthly mother of the Christ, but she was also a sinner who needed to be saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ the same way any one else must be saved; we believe that she also gave birth to other children by Joseph)

Catholics believe Mary was created immaculate, without the stain of original sin, and accord her a special place as ‘queen of heaven’.

-…not support an exalted place for the position of pope, i.e., above any other bishop (elder or pastor); we hold the Word of God–the Bible to be of higher authority than any official church creed or doctrine or papal decree

Being Protestants, they don’t think the pope’s anything special.

-…not support a celibate clergy (we believe some were single, but that Peter among others was married)

Major bone of contention with Catholicism here, although they are correct that clergy were not originally required to be celibate. If I remember right, though, clergy could not remarry after being widowed, much like permanent deacons today.

-…not support the liturgy or symbolism of the mass, but rather will promote participation by believers in the taking of communion as a remembrance of our Lord’s broken body and shed blood (the elements being symbolic rather than actual body and blood)

They do not believe in transubstantiation or the real presence of the Christ in the sacrament of the eucharist.

-…not support the doctrine of purgatory or prayers for the dead

-…not support the baptism of infants

-…speak mostly favorably of the Reformers Martin Luther and John Calvin

Standard for many Protestant denominations.

All in all, you couldn’t really have asked for a nicer ‘thanks for your interest, but we don’t think you’d like the program quite as much as you seem to think you would’ letter.

 

[Zooey]

I would stay away from these people. (Well, I, personally, would RUN from these people, but that’s me).
I have a relative who is involved with them. She & her family no longer celebrate Christmas & Easter, because of their “pagan” [read: Catholic] origin.
Her husband barely speaks to me any more, because being Methodist, I have not been baptized according to his way of thinking, and he considers me to not be a Christian as a result…

I think you will be happier to just let them go. They are very controlling, also, in what they will allow their followers to do…(I would use the word “cult”, but it gets tossed around too much; let’s just say very off-center from Protestant belief, much less are they going to produce something a Catholic would be able to use without serious, serious compromise).

 

[Steadfast]

I guess I am surprised that you were surprised…

Were you expecting them to endorse all the things they listed as being in significant tension with Roman Catholic belief.

I think they are being very charitable. They are telling you up front and ahead of time that there are important differences in belief which will impact your involvement in the program.

 

[KarenNC]

So I thought I would ask the Gothard homeschool program questions because I was interested in what the Duggar Family teaches thier children. anyway. I wrote them a letter saying I was Catholic but would like to join and if I could since the process involves essays and a form etc. (I was only saying this I didn’t really want to join)

I was really taken aback from thier response because it is supposed to be a non domanation program.

As others have pointed out, “non-denominational” does not mean “generic Christian” (as if such existed), nor does it even mean “generic Protestant”. It generally means a pretty literalist, fundamentalist conservative Protestant approach to Christianity.

I am not sure why you felt you had to lie in order to find out this information. Their statement of faith is plainly listed on the website and is pretty plainly not Catholic. ati.iblp.org/ati/about/statementoffaith/

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

this is the statement of faith

Statement of Faith
what we believe
We believe in the one true God, existing in three Persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. These three are coequal from all eternity, each with distinct personalities, but of one essence.

We believe the Bible is the verbally inspired Word of God and is the sole, infallible rule of faith and practice.

We believe Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God, that He entered into the world through the virgin birth, and lived among us without sin as perfect Man and perfect God.

We believe Adam was directly created in innocence and in the image of God and did not evolve from preexisting forms of life. By voluntary transgression, he fell; and thus the whole human race is now sinful by nature and practice and, therefore, under just condemnation to eternal separation from God.

We believe Jesus Christ shed His blood on Calvary as a vicarious substitute for all sinners, was buried and rose again bodily, and ascended to the right hand of the Father, from whence He will personally return.

We believe people are justified by grace through faith in the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ without any mixture of works.

We believe the Holy Spirit convicts the sinner, regenerates, sanctifies, and indwells the believer, and fills the believer for effective service.

We believe in the priesthood of the believer and that God has made provision for each believer to be victorious by being led of the Spirit and not walking after the flesh.

We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost—the just unto the resurrection of life eternal and the lost unto the resurrection of eternal damnation.

We believe Satan is a living being and that hell is a place of eternal conscious punishment for him, his hosts, and all unbelievers.

We believe Scripture commands Christians to abstain from all forms of compromise with unbelief.

We believe the Bible sets forth principles for Godly living and that if one learns and follows these principles, one will be able to avoid and refute false teachings and false concepts.

Most of this, perhaps all, is compatible with Catholic teaching, or can with a little generosity of interpretation be taken as such. Equally, the same parts of it could be taken in a sense which excludes an interpretation compatible with Catholic teaching - & that is the difficulty; because the two interpretations would not agree. And it is not clear how its authors mean it to be taken​

 

[peary]

So I thought I would ask the Gothard homeschool program questions because I was interested in what the Duggar Family teaches thier children. anyway. I wrote them a letter saying I was Catholic but would like to join and if I could since the process involves essays and a form etc. (I was only saying this I didn’t really want to join)

I was really taken aback from thier response because it is supposed to be a non domanation program.

ANYWAY this is what some of the things they said were and if possible could you all explain and tell me why cathiolics think differently. I will be so greatful if you could

Thank you for your inquiry.

Who the heck are these people, anyway?
ATI and IBLP (the parent organization) are nondenominational and there have been many Roman Catholics (including priests and nuns) who have attended and expressed appreciation for the Basic Seminar over the years, however, if you are a practicing Roman Catholic you would find the ATI Wisdom Booklets to be in tension with many significant points of orthodox Roman Catholic doctrine, polity, and practice.

For instance, the ATI curriculum will…

-…not support an exalted position for the virgin Mary (we believe Mary was highly favored by the Lord and was obedient to perform one of the highest roles a human has ever been asked to do in being the earthly mother of the Christ, but she was also a sinner who needed to be saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ the same way any one else must be saved; we believe that she also gave birth to other children by Joseph)

-…not support an exalted place for the position of pope, i.e., above any other bishop (elder or pastor); we hold the Word of God–the Bible to be of higher authority than any official church creed or doctrine or papal decree

-…not support a celibate clergy (we believe some were single, but that Peter among others was married)

-…not support the liturgy or symbolism of the mass, but rather will promote participation by believers in the taking of communion as a remembrance of our Lord’s broken body and shed blood (the elements being symbolic rather than actual body and blood)

-…not support the doctrine of purgatory or prayers for the dead

-…not support the baptism of infants

-…speak mostly favorably of the Reformers Martin Luther and John Calvin

The list could go on longer, but this may be sufficient for you to understand the challenges a Roman Catholic might find with joining ATI. If you were to apply, you would need to agree with ATI’s Statement of Faith without serious reservation. If that were the case, then, when your application is received, I would review it and probably need to have further communications with you to see if I could be convinced that your participation would not create problems for you or for us.

We believe faith is a matter of conscience for each person and we would not want to try to convince anyone to change their beliefs unless they felt it was God Himself through His Word and the ministry of the Holy Spirit who was leading them to do so.

Thank you again for your interest and may God bless you with a knowledge of His will for you in this matter.

Dwight M. Fredrickson, PhD
IBLP/ATI Administrative Director

 

[KarenNC]

So I thought I would ask the Gothard homeschool program questions because I was interested in what the Duggar Family teaches thier children. anyway. I wrote them a letter saying I was Catholic but would like to join and if I could since the process involves essays and a form etc. (I was only saying this I didn’t really want to join)

It is unclear whether you actually have an interest in pursuing homeschooling or if that was just part of the pretenses under which you contacted this organization. If you are actually interested in homeschooling, there are many, many other options out there that do not require a fundamentalist literalist Protestant worldview. You will be much happier with a homeschooling experience that is in line with your views (I know I am).

catholichomeschool.org/curriculums.php is a good place to start
homeschoolcentral.com/catholic.htm
catholiclinks.org/homeschoolingeng.htm
homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/religion/catholic.htm

There are also non-Christian specific curricula that are quite good and to which your religious material can be added. I prefer the classical method via a book called The Well-Trained Mind. Other options are www.k12.com, www.calvertschool.org, etc

It will also be important to look for a local support group that is accepting of your views. A lot of the ones in our area require a statement of faith similar to the one given in order to join. You may find yourself more at home in an inclusive group (this could be one that is open to many varieties of Christianity or actually be truly inclusive and be open to those of many faiths including Christianity) or a secular group.

 

[Zooey]

Some good Catholic homeschooling options are Seton Homeschool, Mother of Divine Grace, and Catholic Heritage Curricula.
I believe that Sonlight, which is a non-Catholic program, has many happy Catholic users, because while it is a non-Catholic Christian program, it is not aimed at any one group of Christians.
There are of course, others. HTH!!

 

[PattyPryor]

No everyone I never wanted to JOIN I wanted to see how the Duggar family taught thier kids,

I’m in a catholic College I don’t need a Catholic homeschool but thanks for the infomation

 

[blackrobe]

I wrote them a letter saying I was Catholic but would like to join and if I could since the process involves essays and a form etc. (I was only saying this I didn’t really want to join)

My question is why did you lie to these people about your intentions? Why not simply ask them what you wanted to know?

JSA+

 

[PattyPryor]

I didn’t lie. I told them right out I was catholic and I was interested in what the duggars taught. I said if it was possible to get information. They gave me information but gave me a huge speech about how being Catholic is a huge barrior to getting in.

Why do you hate on me? Did I do anything to you? why are you so worried about my salvation? Calling me a lier. Thats rude I’m sorry but this is why I hate posting on this board. People are mean and judgemental and they don’t even realize it

 

[KarenNC]

I didn’t lie. I told them right out I was catholic and I was interested in what the duggars taught. I said if it was possible to get information. They gave me information but gave me a huge speech about how being Catholic is a huge barrior to getting in.

Why do you hate on me? Did I do anything to you? why are you so worried about my salvation? Calling me a lier. Thats rude I’m sorry but this is why I hate posting on this board. People are mean and judgemental and they don’t even realize it

Your statement speaks for itself:
“I wrote them a letter saying I was Catholic but would like to join and if I could since the process involves essays and a form etc. (I was only saying this I didn’t really want to join)”

Lie
intransitive verb
1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive
2 : to create a false or misleading impression
(Merriam Webster)

You clearly stated that you made an untrue statement (“I would like to join”) to create at minimum a false or misleading impression (“I was only saying this I didn’t really want to join”). So, yes, you say yourself that you lied in this situation. It is simple fact, not being “mean” or “rude” or “judgemental”.

That is why I also said that I did not see why you felt the need to lie rather than simply ask, “Can a Catholic join your group?” To do so seemed entirely unnecessary.

As to the “huge speech”, from what you have said they explained that a Catholic would probably find the teachings and culture of this particular homeschooling method to be problematic theologically and that you might want to look elsewhere for a better fit. That is simple and charitable honesty. They could have said “come on in” and taken your (supposed) money without saying anything.

I do not personally agree with their theological position, but I don’t see that they have done anything wrong in this situation. Their materials are written from a specific theological viewpoint and they are very upfront in saying what that viewpoint is so that likeminded people can find them and others can seek elsewhere(something that I as a homeschooler very much appreciate). They are not falsely claiming to be a Catholic resource or advertising to or evangelizing Catholics under false pretenses as far as I can tell. You sought them out.

 

[PattyPryor]

well maybe i should kill myself for being such a horrible sinner. No one likes me at this forum anyway. Heck no one likes me period. I was thinking about it for weeks. just leave this world behind. I ask a question and get told I’m a horrible person. You know what I am

I"M DONE forget I ever even existed

goodbye

 

[peary]

I didn’t lie. I told them right out I was catholic and I was interested in what the duggars taught. I said if it was possible to get information. They gave me information but gave me a huge speech about how being Catholic is a huge barrior to getting in.

Why do you hate on me? Did I do anything to you? why are you so worried about my salvation? Calling me a lier. Thats rude I’m sorry but this is why I hate posting on this board. People are mean and judgemental and they don’t even realize it

Patty - just find an alternative schooling. They do not meet your own needs or the needs of your child. Period.

 

[KarenNC]

Patty - just find an alternative schooling. They do not meet your own needs or the needs of your child. Period.

You’ve missed the posts. She has stated she is in college and has no interest in actually homeschooling, she was just seeking information out of curiosity.