A sign of true love?

[brgregmack]

I have suffered for most of my life with sexual addiction, and have been active in it recently. Thankfully, due to His love and mercy, I have been sober for two weeks now. It has taken a lot of work and prayer to get out of a long and painful relapse.

Yet throughout all of this, I have been good friends with a girl for a couple years, while discerning a vocation to priesthood and/or religious life. I really enjoyed this situation because there was really no pressure at all to date. Yet the more the monastery has said no due to my lack of abstinence, I’ve really questioned what God’s will for me really is, and thinking there could be potential between her and I.

The weekend before last, I went down to Squaw Valley with her and her family for her sister’s wedding. There were successive moments that felt so natural, until finally I did some verbal vomiting at the reception about both my addiction, biggest fears, and my thoughts on the potential between us. This wasn’t exactly how I planned telling her all of this, but I’m glad it’s out. I know it’s a good sign she hasn’t run away.

Since then, we have continued some tough conversations. I want to let her know what she’s getting into by talking with my sponsor’s wife who will be painfully honest. I also want to establish healthy dynamics right from the start, because I care about her and don’t want to hurt her, which I know I have the potential to do. I have also been praying to St Joseph throughout all of this.

My question is right in the title. Is this a sign of true love???

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Not sure I understand the question…Is what a sign of true love? That she hasn’t run away from you yet? So in essence, if I understand you correctly, you’ve been keeping this girl on the side, in a sort of reserve, in case you aren’t called to a vocation. It’s felt good to you because there was no pressure to get serious with her, yet you had her as a back-up in case things fell through with the monastery. Now that you’re being turned down by your chosen order because of lack of abstinence, you think that maybe you’re going to move forward with your friend, and that since she hasn’t rejected you, it could be “true love?”

This may come across as harsh, and for that, I apologize in advance. But it sounds to me as though you are using her. I think you should stop seeing her and toying with her emotions, and stop telling her your struggles with sexual transgressions. Were you drinking at the wedding?

Get your act together and pray on your own for discernment. Do you have a spiritual advisor? Does she?

Seriously, a young lady with solid self esteem would walk away quickly. That she hasn’t may point to co-dependence and she may see her love as the force that will “save” you from your own self-destructive ways. Does she know you have been discerning a vocation? Is she “waiting” for you?

All that being said…Two weeks abstinence is great. Keep it up.

 

[bck4g36as]

I think you fail to realise that Hell is a real place (and I’m not by any means trying to threaten you here).

Had you, you’d have sobered up very quickly.

If you have a mental illness that is preventing you or causing you difficulty in getting out of your addiction, then that’s one thing, and if you comprehend the below you will try to get that addressed ASAP, but what you’ve done is extremely heinous nonetheless and completely inexcusable.

Why? Because while you are saved as you have accepted Christ as your personal saviour, you have to understand that your ‘salvation’ isn’t going to amount to much of one because of your actions. In fact, and again I’m not trying to frighten or startle you here, but you’re going to get something rather close to the indescribable, hardly fathomable to the human mind kind of unstoppable and unrelenting suffering for eternity whether you change your life or not at this point, so please stop now as to avoid any further such punishment.

Had someone sternly and direly warned me this prior and I subsequently realised that Hell isn’t some figment of imagination, that God is indeed real, and that your actions are heavily weighed and in other words that this faith of mine isn’t to be by any means taken lightly, I would have been so much more vigilant about watching my actions that it would have bordered on the point of scrupulosity.

And for that I would have been very grateful.

You on the other hand have been warned and won’t have to learn the way that was practically unbearable and can be described as hardly anything short of torment.

Consider yourself blessed.

Very.

 

[Groo]

I think you fail to realise that Hell is a real place (and I’m not by any means trying to threaten you here).

Had you, you’d have sobered up very quickly.

If you have a mental illness that is preventing you or causing you difficulty in getting out of your addiction, then that’s one thing, and if you comprehend the below you will try to get that addressed ASAP, but what you’ve done is extremely heinous nonetheless and completely inexcusable.

Why? Because while you are saved as you have accepted Christ as your personal saviour, you have to understand that your ‘salvation’ isn’t going to amount to much of one because of your actions. In fact, and again I’m not trying to frighten or startle you here, but you’re going to get something rather close to the indescribable, hardly fathomable to the human mind kind of unstoppable and unrelenting suffering for eternity whether you change your life or not at this point, so please stop now as to avoid any further such punishment.

Had someone sternly and direly warned me this prior and I subsequently realised that Hell isn’t some figment of imagination, that God is indeed real, and that your actions are heavily weighed and in other words that this faith of mine isn’t to be by any means taken lightly, I would have been so much more vigilant about watching my actions that it would have bordered on the point of scrupulosity.

And for that I would have been very grateful.

You on the other hand have been warned and won’t have to learn the way that was practically unbearable and can be described as hardly anything short of torment.

Consider yourself blessed.

Very.

Threatening hellfire is not helpful. This kind of pharisaical attitude drives people away from the Church. The mere knowledge of hell does not stop people from sinning.

Congrats to the OP on 2 weeks of clean time. In my experience of recovery, it is best not to make major life decisions while still so drawn to active addiction. Both the monastery and marriage are major life changes. For me, I wouldn’t consider either until after a long period of sobriety (1 year at least; preferably 2 years), and working through all 12 steps.

Talk to your sponsor, though, as he knows you best.

 

[brgregmack]

Juliane, I’m not talking on her part, but on mine. As far as working on my addiction goes, I went through (name removed by moderator)atient treatment in 2010, and was abstinent for almost two years before my relapse. I do have a spiritual director and a counselor with whom I’ve been working with. I also go to confession on a regular basis and do weekly adoration. She’s known from the first time we really met that I’d been discerning a religious vocation. I wasn’t holding her in reserve just in case, and we really were just friends, although she’s had feelings for me for a while now and has been waiting for me. I was completely oblivious to this, really trying to discern religious life. This change really is completely unexpected for me. And yes I was drinking at the wedding, but everything I told her was completely true.

The tough conversations I mentioned were precisely about making sure that she knows what she’s getting into, that this relationship will take work, and that I don’t want her taking responsibility for my behavior. She will be meeting with my sponsor’s wife, who will be painfully honest with her. I want to give her every chance to say, “no, let’s just be friends.”

 

[Dying_Breed]

I think you fail to realise that Hell is a real place (and I’m not by any means trying to threaten you here).

Had you, you’d have sobered up very quickly.

If you have a mental illness that is preventing you or causing you difficulty in getting out of your addiction, then that’s one thing, and if you comprehend the below you will try to get that addressed ASAP, but what you’ve done is extremely heinous nonetheless and completely inexcusable.

Why? Because while you are saved as you have accepted Christ as your personal saviour, you have to understand that your ‘salvation’ isn’t going to amount to much of one because of your actions. In fact, and again I’m not trying to frighten or startle you here, but you’re going to get something rather close to the indescribable, hardly fathomable to the human mind kind of unstoppable and unrelenting suffering for eternity whether you change your life or not at this point, so please stop now as to avoid any further such punishment.

Had someone sternly and direly warned me this prior and I subsequently realised that Hell isn’t some figment of imagination, that God is indeed real, and that your actions are heavily weighed and in other words that this faith of mine isn’t to be by any means taken lightly, I would have been so much more vigilant about watching my actions that it would have bordered on the point of scrupulosity.

And for that I would have been very grateful.

You on the other hand have been warned and won’t have to learn the way that was practically unbearable and can be described as hardly anything short of torment.

Consider yourself blessed.

Very.

These are the kind of people that always pushed me away from my faith. As if God wants us to live every waking moment of our lives in absolute horror of hell. As a child it just got to the point of total depression, anxiety and suicidal tendencies. Sexual “addiction” was the only way out for me. Lo and behold…15 years later still addicted. So glad people who just know everything about everyone and think they have the authority to deal with every person with a problem are here to condemn us all at every turn. Have you considered the man may have some problems that would change the gravity of his sins? Have you considered that you cant see all things and are completely out of place to make such judgements against him?

Consider yourself cursed.

Very.

(Im not really mad and I didnt really curse you. Just thought the response was appropriate)

To the OP:
Your doing better than I am, I went like 4 days without it. I dont think your using her. If your being open and honest with her right from the start like you said and continue to do so and be honest with yourself about your intentions she can make her own decision.

 

[Iheartcoffee]

I think it is very good to be honest with her. However, I am concerned about even opening up the possibility of a relationship so quickly after a relapse. While I am very glad that you are 2 weeks sober with your recovery, I think it would be best to wait a bit longer before possibly beginning a relationship that would very likely tempt you.

Self control is a lot like a muscle, it must be built up over time and if it isn’t routinely and carefully exercised it can be injured. You tore a muscle and it needs to repair and be re-built before you can be 100% sure you are as strong again.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Juliane, I’m not talking on her part, but on mine. As far as working on my addiction goes, I went through (name removed by moderator)atient treatment in 2010, and was abstinent for almost two years before my relapse. I do have a spiritual director and a counselor with whom I’ve been working with. I also go to confession on a regular basis and do weekly adoration. She’s known from the first time we really met that I’d been discerning a religious vocation. I wasn’t holding her in reserve just in case, and we really were just friends, although she’s had feelings for me for a while now and has been waiting for me. I was completely oblivious to this, really trying to discern religious life. This change really is completely unexpected for me. And yes I was drinking at the wedding, but everything I told her was completely true.

The tough conversations I mentioned were precisely about making sure that she knows what she’s getting into, that this relationship will take work, and that I don’t want her taking responsibility for my behavior. She will be meeting with my sponsor’s wife, who will be painfully honest with her. I want to give her every chance to say, “no, let’s just be friends.”

Well, good. I’m glad you’ve been honest with her, but I am concerned that she has been waiting for you, in spite of your discernment. That alone would put up a pretty large red flag - what would a girl like that be expecting from the relationship? KWIM? Waiting for anyone who is thinking about religious life means that you don’t really want a close intimate relationship, you’d rather have someone who is unavailable. Definite reason to go slowly, if at all, on both of your parts. She might even see the situation as romantic, somewhat like a popular novel and movie in the 80’s, “The Thorn Birds.”

Weddings can be intoxicating, even if you stay completely sober. Stuff happens, there’s a lot of giddiness in the air. Don’t let that one day become your vision of a future. And are you sure you aren’t called to a vocation?? Until you are, you have no right to date anyone.

Sorry I was so blunt before. I kind of climbed on your case, but I see now that you are a responsible person.

 

[hannajomar]

My question is right in the title. Is this a sign of true love???

I think it’s a sign that you are thinking about someone else besides yourself. My experience with addictions is they make people very selfish, no matter the cost to others. That seems like a good sign. I think it’s also a good sign that you are not just hiding your problem even if disclosing it might have negative consequences.

You write a lot about how much she wants to date you. What are your feelings toward her? Religious life and sexual addiction aside, do you have romantic feelings toward her, or is this more because she obviously has romantic feelings toward you?

 

[brgregmack]

I really don’t see this as just one day with a lot of giddiness, but rather an unexpected capstone moment. Throughout the course of the weekend, I was reflecting on many moments throughout the course of our friendship while at the same time asking, “What is God’s will for me?” The way I feel about her is something I’ve never felt before, yet at the same time, I know that nothing is set in stone. One of my prayers since that weekend has been to ask Him to take me by the hand and lead me one step at a time.

As far as her waiting for me goes, based on what she’s told me, I don’t think that’s a bad thing at all. When we met, she had recently gotten out of a relationship where she had been manipulated into doing something she didn’t want to do, so she was glad when she learned that I was discerning religious life because she, too, didn’t want the pressure to date. She knew that I wouldn’t want what the last guy wanted. Her feelings for me were unexpected for her. She told me that she felt like she was banging her head against the wall.

I do agree that she and I need to take it relatively slowly, but only because of my recent relapse and little sobriety. There’s a lot of work that I need to do.

 

[Oh_Charlotte]

Maybe she is Codependent, and living her life wrapped up in your addiction is attractive to her.

Sorry. I don’t mean to be mean. But its a real possibility.

 

[brgregmack]

Maybe she is Codependent, and living her life wrapped up in your addiction is attractive to her.

Sorry. I don’t mean to be mean. But its a real possibility.

That is something I’ve thought about, but based on our conversations thus far it seems rather doubtful. That doesn’t mean I’ll keep trying to make sure that she isn’t. After she meets with my sponsor’s wife, if she still wants to go ahead with this, I’ll reiterate and make clear that she shouldn’t come into this thinking that she’s going to fix me.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

That is something I’ve thought about, but based on our conversations thus far it seems rather doubtful. That doesn’t mean I’ll keep trying to make sure that she isn’t. After she meets with my sponsor’s wife, if she still wants to go ahead with this, I’ll reiterate and make clear that she shouldn’t come into this thinking that she’s going to fix me.

It’s rare that a young woman recognizes that is what she is doing. It’s only in retrospect, after a few of these experiences, that a woman will look back and think, “Hmmm, every guy I’ve been attracted to has had problems, what is it that I find attractive about that?” And it still takes therapy and work to get to the bottom of the problem. Even after that, she can still find herself attracted to a “project” instead of a person.

Just saying - if she denies wanting to fix you, take it with a grain of salt.

 

[thewanderer]

It’s rare that a young woman recognizes that is what she is doing. It’s only in retrospect, after a few of these experiences, that a woman will look back and think, “Hmmm, every guy I’ve been attracted to has had problems, what is it that I find attractive about that?” And it still takes therapy and work to get to the bottom of the problem. Even after that, she can still find herself attracted to a “project” instead of a person.

Just saying - if she denies wanting to fix you, take it with a grain of salt.

One thing to keep in mind though… if she was already attracted to him and waiting for him before she had any idea he had such issues, isn’t it much less likely that she is attracted to him because he is a ‘fixer-upper’?

 

[brgregmack]

One thing to keep in mind though… if she was already attracted to him and waiting for him before she had any idea he had such issues, isn’t it much less likely that she is attracted to him because he is a ‘fixer-upper’?

Thank you. She’s a very kind and caring person.

I guess part of coming here to ask this is what remains of my core belief that I’m not lovable, and thinking that if people really knew me they would reject me. She hasn’t, and she now knows a lot about my addiction, including some of what I was doing and why. That fact is kinda hard to wrap my head around.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

One thing to keep in mind though… if she was already attracted to him and waiting for him before she had any idea he had such issues, isn’t it much less likely that she is attracted to him because he is a ‘fixer-upper’?

Well, perhaps, but she did know that he has been discerning a vocation. Yearning after someone who is unavailable is a concern as well.

OP, I don’t want to be Negative Nancy here. I wish you all the best. You do deserve love, which of us has never sinned? Don’t rank yourself any lower on that scale than anyone else.

 

[thewanderer]

Well, perhaps, but she did know that he has been discerning a vocation. Yearning after someone who is unavailable is a concern as well.

OP, I don’t want to be Negative Nancy here. I wish you all the best. You do deserve love, which of us has never sinned? Don’t rank yourself any lower on that scale than anyone else.

Perhaps, but perhaps not. You are right to bring it up as something to consider, but plenty of people fall in love with people they can’t have all the time without it having anything to do with the fact that they can’t have that person. Yes, the OP should keep in mind that there is a possibility that his girlfriend is interested in him for problematic reasons, but no more than anyone else.