A sign that one's faith is weak...

[Montalban]

Doesn’t the Bible say pretty much the same thing about the destiny of non-believers who do not accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and personal saviour?

Read Romans 2

 

[Montalban]

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

And this itself is a vastly different message from “Slaughter the un-believers where-ever you find them”

 

[jack_hawkins]

This is the rhetorical question I was referring to:

Why should those who say that they do not believe in what is written in the Qur’an be so concerned about what it says regarding the fate of non-believers in the Hereafter?

Since the answer is just so obvious to me, I did not really expect one.

However, if anyone wishes to elaborate on the answer, then I am all ears… or eyes, I think.

Yes, I think this is a salutory lesson that the “obvious” answer very often isn’t the correct one!

The first thing is I wonder why you believe that anyone here is "so concerned about what the Koran says about the fate of non-believers. I haven’t seen anything that suggests that. Wishful thinking on your part? Very few people who have been opposing you are non-believers hamba2han - we are the true believers!

My rhetorical question is why do you keep on asking different questions when you never give any thread justice?

Again I know the obvious answer…

 

[Montalban]

My rhetorical question is why do you keep on asking different questions when you never give any thread justice?

Again I know the obvious answer…

I wonder if there’s like a school of ‘intellectual’ Islam?

 

[hamba2han]

From the other thread:

But I DO believe that the koran passes the test that it sets itself…!! (…as far as I can tell)That test is not applicable to the Bible, nor the full deposit of faith, so it makes no difference whether it passes that test or not.Your task is to explain why that test SHOULD be applied to the Bible. Please answer that question.

I believe that this test should be applied to not just the Bible, but to ALL scriptures because it is a test of truthfulness and it is a very objective test at that.

The Bible, and deposit of faith, have no need to “prove itself” because it is not self conscious of it’s veracity.

It KNOWS it is the truth, and you can accept it as such, or not.

Your job is to disprove it,… not for it to prove itself.

I think it is better for me to answer this by quoting another poster here:

“What I see from your posts on that other thread was that you simply push a belief based on circular reasoning and then reel in horror when people actually challenge the logic of that.”
*
“You started a thread and expected everyone else to be as meek in reason and accept the circular logic of the Koran” (Bible??). It’s from your god, because it is, because it is, because it is."*

 

[jack_hawkins]

From the other thread:

I believe that this test should be applied to not just the Bible, but to ALL scriptures because it is a test of truthfulness and it is a very objective test at that.

I think it is better for me to answer this by quoting another poster here:

"What I see from your posts on that other thread was that you simply push a belief based on circular reasoning and then reel in horror when people actually challenge the logic of that."
*
“You started a thread and expected everyone else to be as meek in reason and accept the circular logic* of the Koran” (Bible??). It’s from your god, because it is, because it is, because it is."

a very long post to say absolutely nothing
trying to have a discussion with you is very hard work and pretty tedious
is this some cultural thing I have missed, where if you keep on posting rubbish until everyone gets fed up you have in some obscure way won?

 

[cestusdei]

I see this kind of argument all the time from muslims. There is a profound lack of thought or logic. They think if they should loud enough that is all they need do, that and hold a gun to your head.

 

[Jedda]

A sign on weak faith…

Going to a board that is not your religion…perhaps trying to look for more than what you have…more meaning…more sense…

 

[Montalban]

From the other thread:

I believe that this test should be applied to not just the Bible, but to ALL scriptures because it is a test of truthfulness and it is a very objective test at that.

I think it is better for me to answer this by quoting another poster here:

Why not
a) note who said it?
b) address his comments?

 

[Morning_Star15]

From the other thread:

I believe that this test should be applied to not just the Bible, but to ALL scriptures because it is a test of truthfulness and it is a very objective test at that.

As we established on the other thread, you’re the only person who considers this test to be objective, or to have any merit whatsoever! What you’re using is an argument ad nauseam, repeating your statement over and over and over again despite what people say against it, hoping that this repetition is going to convince someone that it’s true.

I think it is better for me to answer this by quoting another poster here:

"What I see from your posts on that other thread was that you simply push a belief based on circular reasoning and then reel in horror when people actually challenge the logic of that."
*
“You started a thread and expected everyone else to be as meek in reason and accept the circular logic* of the Koran” (Bible??). It’s from your god, because it is, because it is, because it is."

 

[the_phoenix]

Just wanted to step back in to thank MariaG for her kind words to me, as well as to thank cestusdei and kellie for expressing so eloquently what I was trying to communicate in my previous post. It would be an honor to have your words speak for me.

~~ the phoenix

 

[Montalban]

I see this kind of argument all the time from muslims. There is a profound lack of thought or logic. They think if they should loud enough that is all they need do, that and hold a gun to your head.

It’s probably why Islam rejected Greek logic.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

And this itself is a vastly different message from “Slaughter the un-believers where-ever you find them”

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

This was said by Jesus way after God had instructed the people in your quote. Also your quote is from a different time, a time of war.

Christ had not come to the world when your quote was said.

Later when Christ came and had died on the cross for the sins of mankind, THAT was the good news, the gospel that will be preached to the world. The gospel that man does not have to suffer in bondage of sin anymore. That Christ is a bridge to God that we could never know due to our sinful ways.

Thats the gospel thats, what we are instructed to teach the world.

The teachings of Jesus include the greatest commandment. Love your neighbour as yourself.

 

[Montalban]

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

This was said by Jesus way after God had instructed the people in your quote. Also your quote is from a different time, a time of war.

Islam is ALWAYS at war with non-Islam (except that which has already surrendered)

Christ had not come to the world when your quote was said.

Christ had already been in the world. The truth of Christ is eternal.

The teachings of Jesus include the greatest commandment. Love your neighbour as yourself.

But not surrender to false gods.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Islam is ALWAYS at war with non-Islam (except that which has already surrendered).

Well there you go, at war thats your choice. And Christianity is not at war with Islam. Jesus died for all including you, He doesnt see race, He sees His created children, separated from Him and wishes their return.

Christ had already been in the world. The truth of Christ is eternal…

Yes Christ created the world, but I speak of the time He came to His created world as a human to commune with His created and show us how He actually wanted us to live. He taught us how to love one another. But He was hated and then He was sacrificed on the cross for our hate. But He rose 3 days later and rejoined God in Heaven. Christs Word is eternal and when He returns every knee will bow and every tounge confess Christ is Lord.

But not surrender to false gods.

Loveing your neighbour has absolutely nothing with surrendering to false gods. Its loveing your neighbour as you love yourself. The chances in life kindness, forgiveness, gentleness all you give yourself you would give to others. Treating each other with respect we want for ourselves.

 

[Montalban]

Well there you go, at war thats your choice. And Christianity is not at war with Islam. Jesus died for all including you, He doesnt see race, He sees His created children, separated from Him and wishes their return.

You misunderstand the situation. Christianity’s not at war with Islam. Islam’s at war with Christianity.

Yes Christ created the world, but I speak of the time He came to His created world as a human to commune with His created and show us how He actually wanted us to live. He taught us how to love one another. But He was hated and then He was sacrificed on the cross for our hate. But He rose 3 days later and rejoined God in Heaven. Christs Word is eternal and when He returns every knee will bow and every tounge confess Christ is Lord.

If only Moslems believed this. They believe that Christians deceive people over this.

Loveing your neighbour has absolutely nothing with surrendering to false gods.

I agree. But you seem to assume that just because you believe in peace that everyone else does - for that’s what you’re debating. When I state Islam’s at war against Christians you quote me Jesus’ words - which don’t address what Islam feels about us at all.

Its loveing your neighbour as you love yourself. The chances in life kindness, forgiveness, gentleness all you give yourself you would give to others. Treating each other with respect we want for ourselves.

Chamberlin before WWII assumed that Hitler was a man of honour. It’s plainly not wise to assume that a faith that calls for the extermination of non-Islam doesn’t mean what it says. Just as Hitler had spelled out a programme in Mein Kampf. All you have to do is read.

 

[exoflare]

This is the rhetorical question I was referring to:

Why should those who say that they do not believe in what is written in the Qur’an be so concerned about what it says regarding the fate of non-believers in the Hereafter?

Your “rhetorical” question still depends on the individual person’s motives, which we cannot really speculate on if the question is only rhetorical. If you can’t name anybody specific that has actually done this, then what was the point of even bringing it up?

 

[hamba2han]

As we established on the other thread, you’re the only person who considers this test to be objective, or to have any merit whatsoever! What you’re using is an argument ad nauseam, repeating your statement over and over and over again despite what people say against it, hoping that this repetition is going to convince someone that it’s true.

What I am stating in the other thread are cold hard evidences that are testable and which greatly supports the truthfulness of the Qur’an.

How can anyone honestly say that to test a book to determine whether it has discrepancies is a non-objective test?

That does not make sense at all.

 

[exoflare]

What I am stating in the other thread are cold hard evidences that are testable and which greatly supports the truthfulness of the Qur’an.

How can anyone honestly say that to test a book to determine whether it has discrepancies is a non-objective test?

That does not make sense at all.

Do you think a book that is consistent must necessarily be truthful?

 

[hamba2han]

Do you think a book that is consistent must necessarily be truthful?

If a 1,400 year-old book is 100% consistent with modern scientific facts, then it is very, very probable indeed that it is truthful.