A sign that one's faith is weak...

[mayra_hart]

for me personally my faith get weak when i pray an nothing seem to happen. and you wonder is god is there an listening. Holy Saint Jude, Apostle and Martyr, Great in virtue and rich in miracles, Near kinsman of Jesus Christ, Faithful intercessor of all Who invoke your special patronage in time of need. To you I have recourse from the depths of my heart And humbly beg to whom God has given such great power To come to my assistance. Help me in my present and urgent petition, In return I promise to make your name known And cause you to be invoked. Saint Jude pray for me and all those who invoke your aid. Amen

 

[Montalban]

What the Qur’an says about the stages of man’s embryonic development has already been explained here and continued here.

And it’s false to think that a blood ‘clot’ (which is how it’s always been interpreted) has anything to do with embryonic formation.

But I had to laugh at your gum picture. It reminds me of the worst of Haekel’s drawings.

 

[Montalban]

blood clots???

It’s supposed to be part of the science of the Koran that the Koran mentions we’re formed by a blood clot.

Moslems are deeply embarrassed by this and try all sorts of arguments to show that we are so formed.

However, here is a list of Koranic verses on embryology: you will see that the Koran says man’s origins come in so many different ways, from water, from loam, from a clot, from dust, from potter’s clay, a drop of fluid, from a seed etc. One is bound to be ‘close’ to something real.
"The Qur’an and Embryology
All quotations are taken from Pickthal’s translation unless otherwise indicated.
3:59 Lo! The likeness of Jesus with Allah is as the likeness of Adam. He created him of dust, then He said unto him: Be! and he is.

4:56 Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. Lo! Allah is ever mighty, wise.

7:172 And (remember) when thy Lord brought forth from the children of Adam, from their loins, their seed, and made them testify themselves, saying: Am I not you Lord? They said: Yea, verily. we testify. This was lest ye should say at the Day of Resurrection: Lo! of this we were unaware.

11:61 You have no other God save Him. He brought you forth from the earth and hath made you husband of it.

13:8 Allah knoweth that which every female beareth and that which the wombs absorb and that which they grow. And everything with Him is measured.

15:26 Verily we created man out of potter’s clay of black mud altered.

15:28 And remember when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am creating a mortal out of potter’s clay of black mud altered.

15:33 (Iblis) said: Why should I prostrate myself unto a mortal whom Thou hast created out of potter’s clay of black mud altered?

16:4 He created man from a drop of fluid, yet, behold! he is an open opponent.

17:61 And when We said unto the angels: Fall down prostrate before Adam and they fell prostrate all save Iblis, He said: Shall I fall prostrate before that which Thou hast created of clay?

18:37 And his comrade (Abel?) while he disputed with him (Cain?) exclaimed: Disbelievest in Him Who created thee of dust, then of a drop (of seed), and then fashioned thee a man?

19:67 Doth not man remember that We created him before, when he was naught?

22:5 O mankind! If you are in any doubt concerning the Resurrection, then lo! We have created you from dust, then from a drop of seed, then from a clot, then from a little lump of flesh shapely and shapeless, that We may make it clear for you. And we cause what We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed time, and afterward we bring you forth as infants, then (give you growth) that ye attain your full strength. And among you is he who dieth (young), and among you is he who is brought back to the most abject time of life, so that after knowledge, he knoweth naught. And thou (Muhammad) seest the earth barren, but when We send down water thereon, it doth thrill and swell and put forth every lovely kind (of growth).

23:12 Verily we created man from a product of wet earth (loam).
23:13 Then placed him (as a drop of seed) in a safe lodging;
23:14 Then fashioned We the drop a clot, then fashioned We the clot a little lump, then fashioned We the little clot bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creature. So blessed be Allah, the Best of Creators!

25:54 And it is He who hath created man from water, and hath appointed from him kindred by blood and kindred by marriage; for thy Lord is ever powerful.
con’t…

 

[Montalban]

30:19 He bringeth forth the living from the dead, and He bringeth forth the dead from the living, and He reviveth the earth after her death. And even so will ye be brought forth.
30:20 And of His signs is this: He created you of dust, and behold you human beings, varying widely!
30:21 And of His signs is this: He created for you helpmates from yourselves that ye might find rest in them.

32:7 Who made all things good which He created, and He began the creation of man from clay,
32:8 Then He made his seed from a draught of despised fluid;
32:9 Then He fashioned him and breathed into him of His spirit: and appointed for you hearing and sight and hearts. Small thanks give ye!

35:11 Allah created you from dust, then from a little fluid, then He made you pairs (male and female?). No female beareth or bringeth forth save with His knowledge. And no-one groweth old, nor is aught lessened of his life, but it is recorded in a Book. Lo! that is easy for Allah.

38:71 When thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to create a mortal out of mire
38:72 And when I have fashioned him and breathed into him of My Spirit, then fall down before him prostrate.

39:6 He created you from one being, then from that (being) He made its mate; and He hath provided for you of cattle eight kinds. He created you in the
wombs of your mothers, creation after creation, in a threefold gloom. Such is Allah your Lord. There is no God save Him. How then are ye turned away?

40:67 He it is who created you from dust, then from a drop (of seed), then from a clot, then bringeth you forth as a child, then ordaineth full strength and afterward that ye become old men though some among you die before-and that ye reach an appointed term, that haply ye may understand.

49:13 O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another…

52:35 Or were they created out of naught? Or are they the creators?
52:36 Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they are sure of nothing!

53:45 And that he created the two spouses, the male and the female,
53:46 From a drop (of seed) when it is poured forth;
53:47 And that He hath ordained the second bringing forth.

56:58 Have ye seen that which ye emit?
56:59 Do you create it or are We the Creator?

64:3 He created the heavens and the earth with truth, and He shaped you and made good your shapes…

71:14 When He created you by (divers) stages?

75:3 Thinketh man that We shall not assemble his bones?
75:4 Yea, verily. Yea, We are able to restore his very fingers.

75:37 Was he not a drop of fluid which gushed forth?
75:38 Then he became a clot; then (Allah) shaped and fashioned:
75:39 And made of him a pair, the male and female.

76:2 Lo! We create man from a drop of thickened fluid to test him, so we make him hearing, knowing.

80:18 From what thing doth He create him?
80:19 From a drop of seed. He createth him and proportioneth him
80:20 Then makeh the way easy for him,
80:21 Then causeth him to die, and burieth him;
80:22 Then when He will, He bringeth him again to life.

86:5 So let man consider from what he is created.
86:6 He is created from a gushing fluid
86:7 That issued from between the loins and ribs.

95:4 Surely we created man out of the best stature
95:5 Then We reduced him to the lowest of the low

96:2 Who created man from a clot.

 

[kellie]

What if the person chewing the gum has teeth missing?

 

[Montalban]

What if the person chewing the gum has teeth missing?

The whole reason I pointed to Haeckel is that someone has shaped that gum to more closely resemble something.

This however is missed by hamba2han

 

[kellie]

The whole reason I pointed to Haeckel is that someone has shaped that gum to more closely resemble something.

This however is missed by hamba2han

Yep, that’s what I meant too

 

[Montalban]

Yep, that’s what I meant too

I understood this. I should have better expressed that I understood what you meant and that you were hitting the mark with respect to hamba2han’s post

Hey, did you have a look at Haekel’s drawings? He was noted for embellishing them so as to make them look more convincing. They’re quite interesting.

hamba2han’s source has done the same

 

[jack_hawkins]

The whole reason I pointed to Haeckel is that someone has shaped that gum to more closely resemble something.

This however is missed by hamba2han

basically what ham is saying is
“a piece of gum chewed in exactly the right way (which can in fact be moulded in basically anything you care to think of) to look like an embryo looks like an embryo, therefore the Koran is the miraculous word of God”

it sounds kind of silly when you analyse it like that

 

[KatholikosMercy]

… is when one starts to be more concerned about the contents of another scripture than what is written in the scripture of one’s own faith.

I really did not plan to open this thread but I seem to be getting questioned on unrelated matters to the subject of the thread that I am currently focusing on and so I think it is probably better for me to respond to these questions on this thread.

First off, why should those who say that they do not believe in what is written in the Qur’an be so concerned about what it says regarding the fate of non-believers in the Hereafter?

I know what the Bible says about my own fate but it does not bother me at all because I just do not believe that my destiny in the Hereafter will depend on what the Bible says.

I think that it should be no different for those who do not believe in the Qur’an.

Second, is the truth and accuracy of your own scripture not an important matter for you?

Like I have mentioned, convincing oneself that the Qur’an is wrong does not prove that one’s own faith is the truth or vice versa and so I do not quite understand the motives of those who are attacking the scriptures of others without at the same time checking the truth of their own scripture as well.

Third, why is it so important for Christians to “save” the souls of Muslims??

You see, Muslims believe that on the Day of Judgment, we will not be questioned by the Creator on whether the people who we spread the teachings of Islam to eventually embraced Islam or not, but rather we will be questioned on the time and effort that we put in towards this cause.

And so, I can tell you that I am not on these boards to save anyone’s soul but my own.

SYMPTOMS OF APOSTASY

1. When you become content with your spiritual growth as it is.
2. When you lose your hunger for the things of God.
3. When it takes much urging to get you to do something for Jesus.
4. When you are ashamed of Jesus in the presence of sinners.
5. When you grow weary in well doing.
6. When you do not care to be with spiritual people or talk about spiritual things.
7. When the most pleasing part of the church service is the benediction.
8. When someone becomes distasteful because of his or her spirituality.
9. When you no longer pray as you once did.
10. When you no longer study the Bible.
11. When you find an excuse for not doing what you should.
12. When you see “little” sins cropping up without being alarmed.
13. When you do not fear your temptations.
14. When it is easier to see the shortcomings in others rather than in yourself.

There are enemies ready to attack us, and like any soldier on a battlefield, we must keep constant lookout to be on guard. Temptation has many forms and appears in deceptive ways. It requires great caution and attention to identify it and be warned.

Jesus also exhorts us to watch for his coming, “for (we) do not know when the time is” (Mark 13:33). In this case “watch” does not carry the meaning of “looking for” so much as it does “be prepared.” When Jesus comes, there will be no missing it, and there will be nothing else to do.

 

[Montalban]

basically what ham is saying is
“a piece of gum chewed in exactly the right way (which can in fact be moulded in basically anything you care to think of) to look like an embryo looks like an embryo, therefore the Koran is the miraculous word of God”

it sounds kind of silly when you analyse it like that

His evidence is becoming unstuck

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

I find it a little ironic that as I peruse this thread, most of the off topic comments are from CHRISTIANS here who bring up the “science of the Koran” that I specifically asked be left in the other thread.

Hmmmm…

 

[jack_hawkins]

true, but ham steers the thread that way here

If a 1,400 year-old book is 100% consistent with modern scientific facts, then it is very, very probable indeed that it is truthful.
post #39

and here

---

I have to say that I am rather disappointed that my ‘How to test the truth of a religion’ thread was closed as I had planned to add quite a few more testable evidences in support of the subject of the thread.

However, I cannot really say that I am surprised that it happened since a number of posters have been expressing their dissatisfaction of the thread in recent days and perhaps even longer.

Anyhow, if the contents of the thread did make some people feel uncomfortable or perhaps it even frightened them somewhat… then this is exactly what the Truth is supposed to do.

For those who may indeed be feeling this fear of the Truth, this is actually a good sign because whether you realize it or not, this might help bring you closer to the source of this Truth eventually, God-willing.

post #50

 

[Montalban]

I find it a little ironic that as I peruse this thread, most of the off topic comments are from CHRISTIANS here who bring up the “science of the Koran” that I specifically asked be left in the other thread.

Hmmmm…

I missed that instruction. What post was that in?

 

[hamba2han]

A telltale sign that one’s faith is weak is when one spends a lot more time disparaging the “evils” of another faith than the amount of time one spends expounding on the virtues of one’s own faith.

To put it another way, if your hatred or displeasure of another faith is more than the love you have of your own faith, then it very likely means that something is not quite right with your conviction and the commitment you have towards your own faith.

Have a look at the threads and the posts on this message board and you will get a pretty good idea of what I mean.

After all, actions do speak a whole lot louder than words.

 

[Generic_Man]

I only read the first page…

A non-Catholic’s soul is only at stake if he/she does know the RC to be the True Church, but refuses to join it. If she/he does honestly not believe that, than there is no risk.

 

[Onesimus]

A telltale sign that one’s faith is weak is when one spends a lot more time disparaging the “evils” of another faith than the amount of time one spends expounding on the virtues of one’s own faith.

That’s a pretty silly thing to say, if you think about it.

It’s like saying a boxer has little confidence in his abilities if he keeps defending his title, or cops are attracted to lawbreaking because they spend all their time pursuing it.

Besides, what could a reasonable person expect?

Jesus told us to beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing. That means the thing he warned us to beware of is deceptive, by definition. One could hardly expect serious Christians to neglect disseminating information on how to recognize such “wolves.”

 

[Onesimus]

To put it another way, if your hatred or displeasure of another faith is more than the love you have of your own faith, then it very likely means that something is not quite right with your conviction and the commitment you have towards your own faith.

What does that say about a faith like Islam, that has such antagonism codified right into the tenets of the religion?

 

[hamba2han]

Jesus told us to beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing. That means the thing he warned us to beware of is deceptive, by definition. One could hardly expect serious Christians to neglect disseminating information on how to recognize such “wolves.”

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them… Matthew 7:20

And what are the fruits of Islam?

Muslims societies in general do not suffer from low birth rates… or high abortion rates depending on how you look at it.

Apart from that, the above verse from the Bible would also apply to the generally low levels in Muslim societies of incidences of alcohol consumption, incest, rape, murder, fornication, violent crimes, juvenile delinquency, homosexuality, suicides, gambling and other social ills as compared to the statistics to be found in the societies of other major faiths, particularly those in the West.

Yes, in this case, what the Bible states is absolutely correct… By their fruits, ye shall know them.

 

[LilyM]

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them… Matthew 7:20

And what are the fruits of Islam?

Muslims societies in general do not suffer from low birth rates… or high abortion rates depending on how you look at it.

Apart from that, the above verse from the Bible would also apply to the generally low levels in Muslim societies of incidences of alcohol consumption, incest, rape, murder, fornication, violent crimes, juvenile delinquency, homosexuality, suicides, gambling and other social ills as compared to the statistics to be found in the societies of other major faiths, particularly those in the West.

Yes, in this case, what the Bible states is absolutely correct… By their fruits, ye shall know them.

High levels of ‘honour-killings’ of women (unheard of in the West apart from among Muslim immigrants to western countries), high levels of terrorism (murder) and suicide bombing both within the borders of these Muslim countries and without …

Remember Osama bin Laden, 9/11, the bombings in London, Madrid and Bali are fruits of Islam just as much as anything else you’d care to name. So too is every attack ever made on Israel in its violent half-century of history, fighting and conflict in Palestine, Lebanon, Sudan, Iran-Iraq war, Afghanistan, the massacre of Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics, countless hijackings of airplanes, bombings of the USS Cole and US Embassies in Africa … don’t think we forget these ‘fruits’ of Islam either.