A Small Dot?

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Faith1960

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I’m having trouble grasping how our universe came to be. I don’t want to get into creation vs evolution discussion as here is a ban on those.
What I’d like to know is do cosmologists and physicists believe that the universe came from nothing or is he idea now that it originated with a small dot, which, in turn lee to the Big Bang?
 
I’m having trouble grasping how our universe came to be. I don’t want to get into creation vs evolution discussion as here is a ban on those.
What I’d like to know is do cosmologists and physicists believe that the universe came from nothing or is he idea now that it originated with a small dot, which, in turn lead to the Big Bang?
Here is the article. I’m fairy certain that the scientists are on the right track. Having said that, how does God fit into all this? Did He create the Universe when it was the size of an electron and then create the Big Bang?

Was the Universe, tiny as it was eternal, along with God?
 
I’m having trouble grasping how our universe came to be. I don’t want to get into creation vs evolution discussion as here is a ban on those.
What I’d like to know is do cosmologists and physicists believe that the universe came from nothing or is he idea now that it originated with a small dot, which, in turn lee to the Big Bang?
I believe what you are calling a “small dot” is technically known as a “gravitational singularity.”
“Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing…Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist. It is not necessary to invoke God” - physicist, Stephen Hawking (source: pg. 180, “The Grand Design” by Stephen Hawking)
 
I suggest you check out lectures on youtube by theoretical physicist, Lawrence Krauss.
He explains all this stuff very well.

.
“Nothing is not nothing; nothing is something.” Sorry, but 0 cannot equal 1. Krauss fails basic mathematics and philosophy.
 
I believe what you are calling a “small dot” is technically known as a “gravitational singularity.”
Precisely. I have listened to many descriptions of this phenomena and the relation to black holes. What appears to be nothing is actually all matter within reach of the black hole being swallowed and compressed to the point of invisibility by the massive (unfathomable to me) gravitational forces.
Black holes were really conjecture until the development of super telescopes of a variety of types. We can now see entire solar systems being consumed, apparently by nothing. So, a great deal of matter and energy appears to be doing a disappearing act.

Does this process relate to a future re-creation of the universe. I don’t know, but it seems to at least be a possibility.

It would be unfair on our part to expect the early Christians to know this when they postulated creation ex nihilo.
 
I saw a TV show in the series “Space 1999”(I think that’s what it was
called) about a lunar station that was catapulted into deep space and
in one episode they were swallowed by a Black Hole, it turned out
that they came out the other side unscathed! The Bible confirms this
in 2 Pet 3:13 we read “But according to His promise, we look forward to
new Heavens and a new Earth, in which righteousness dwells”
 
“Nothing is not nothing; nothing is something.” Sorry, but 0 cannot equal 1. Krauss fails basic mathematics and philosophy.
I am not familiar with Krauss and so do not know if he is making this error, but when people do make the error that sounds like this, what they usually are doing is equating the nothing from which we say God created the universe with some sort of thing in an already existing reality.

Science does a pretty good job explaining (and is improving its explanations all the time) what the universe looked like in the past, and how it got from what it looked like then to what it looked like now. But it cannot answer the question “why is there something rather than nothing,” because all causes that it can find are things (this includes laws of physics - a universe with no matter and even no energy but with laws that would cause them to appear is not nothing). No thing can be the reason for why it is false that there are no things, because, in the hypothetical model where there is absolutely nothing, that thing is not there to cause there to be things and hence show a contradiction. That is, the statements “the existence of X causes things” and “there are no things” (which includes no X) are consistent, because it doesn’t matter what X would do if it did exist if it does not exist.

(To preempt a common response, yes God is originally postulated as a first cause which must exist if things exist, but reasoning from then on shows that He is not a thing, and ascribes several attributes to Him that both cannot apply to any physical object or mere law of nature or whatever and that must apply to this non-thing first cause - hence ruling out the sorts of claims that the universe itself or some law therein is the non thing that causes things.)
 
Here is an excellent video by minutephysics that not only falsifies the misconception of the big bang theory being about the universe coming from, as you say, “a small dot”, but also relates it to religion.

youtube.com/watch?v=q3MWRvLndzs

God bless.
 
I think this is why it’s called theoretical physics.

Whether or not the universe started with an infinitesimally small dot, physicists have to start somewhere.

The old joke is that professors are wandering through the forest when they fall into a giant sinkhole with no way out. The Economist says, “Assume a ladder…”
 
I am not familiar with Krauss and so do not know if he is making this error, but when people do make the error that sounds like this, what they usually are doing is equating the nothing from which we say God created the universe with some sort of thing in an already existing reality.

Science does a pretty good job explaining (and is improving its explanations all the time) what the universe looked like in the past, and how it got from what it looked like then to what it looked like now. But it cannot answer the question “why is there something rather than nothing,” because all causes that it can find are things (this includes laws of physics - a universe with no matter and even no energy but with laws that would cause them to appear is not nothing). No thing can be the reason for why it is false that there are no things, because, in the hypothetical model where there is absolutely nothing, that thing is not there to cause there to be things and hence show a contradiction. That is, the statements “the existence of X causes things” and “there are no things” (which includes no X) are consistent, because it doesn’t matter what X would do if it did exist if it does not exist.

(To preempt a common response, yes God is originally postulated as a first cause which must exist if things exist, but reasoning from then on shows that He is not a thing, and ascribes several attributes to Him that both cannot apply to any physical object or mere law of nature or whatever and that must apply to this non-thing first cause - hence ruling out the sorts of claims that the universe itself or some law therein is the non thing that causes things.)
👍

Great Post.

Also it seems, as was posed in an earlier post, that when/if science says “nothing” they do not truly mean “nothing”. What they mean is no visible matter. That is a far cry from nothing.
 
If you go on You Tube and put in Brother Guy J Consolmagno SJ who now works for the
Vatican Observatory, formally worked for NASA, has great discussions on what you are asking 0 +0 =1 (huh). Very interesting.
 
What I’d like to know is do cosmologists and physicists believe that the universe came from nothing or is he idea now that it originated with a small dot, which, in turn lee to the Big Bang?
The origins of the matter that composes the universe is unknown and is not addressed by the Big Bang theory. The Big Bang starts with the expansion of the material that composes the universe, which is not necessarily the absolute beginning of the universe. As pointed out by St. Francis the word “nothing” has been used in a cosmological context to refer to something physical. It’s not an emptiness and is quite contrary to how we normally use the word.

Going on a slight tangent and expressing my own opinion I think the use of the word “nothing” to describe a collection of particles/energy was a poor choice unless the intent is to cause misconceptions and confusion when communicating with the general public. I think it contributes to why people think the Big Bang Theory is a creatio ex nihilo theory.
 
I think this is why it’s called theoretical physics.

Whether or not the universe started with an infinitesimally small dot, physicists have to start somewhere.

The old joke is that professors are wandering through the forest when they fall into a giant sinkhole with no way out. The Economist says, “Assume a ladder…”
Doesn’t that contradict ex nihilo?
 
Only if you can explain where the dot came from.
So, is it compatible with our faith to believe that the universe came from the dot or gravitational-whatever but that the dot was preceded by nothing and God created the dot from nothing? (Forgive me if I sound confused…I am. 🙂
 
So, is it compatible with our faith to believe that the universe came from the dot or gravitational-whatever but that the dot was preceded by nothing and God created the dot from nothing? (Forgive me if I sound confused…I am. 🙂
YES YES YES YES YES :extrahappy::extrahappy:

:extrahappy::dancing::dancing::dancing: :bounce:
 
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