A somewhat confusing Article of Faith

[CCC_107]

CCC #107 “Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.”

No, the problem is that she/he actually knows what we are saying, is pretending not to understand in order to promote her/his agenda of sola scriptura. In reality, all of this is a deception intended to proselytize Catholics and bait us. I am going to ask the moderators to close this useless thread.

This particular paragraph shouldn’t contradict the Catholic faith, so there should be no concern for you.
I am strongly promoting CCC 107, which states that it has been discerned that the saving truth is confided to scripture. I understand that when I confide in someone that it stays there. You apparently have a different meaning for confiding, but fail to say exactly what that is. Please explain.

 

[Telstar]

CCC #107 “Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.”

This particular paragraph shouldn’t contradict the Catholic faith, so there should be no concern for you.
I am strongly promoting CCC 107, which states that it has been discerned that the saving truth is confided to scripture. I understand that when I confide in someone that it stays there. You apparently have a different meaning for confiding, but fail to say exactly what that is. Please explain.

Full Definition of **CONFIDE **(per Merriam-Webster)

intransitive verb
1: to have confidence : trust
2: to show confidence by imparting secrets

transitive verb
1: to tell confidentially

2: ** to give to the care or protection of another** : entrust
(emphasis mine)

The usage of confide (confided) that is relevant in this instance is the #2 definition, as a transitive verb. The writings of Scripture from the authors that were inspired by the Holy Spirit were “given to the care and protection” of, or “entrusted to” the Bible, as it was compiled by the Catholic Church. In other words, those writings are the ones that contain the truth that those writers received from Jesus, Himself, or by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. All others that were not found to be worthy of consideration as Scripture, were left out. There were hundreds of writings considered by the Church, but only the ones that the Church approved (through the Magisterium) as authentic were included. But, the Bible is only the part that what was written down, as I said in a previous post, so it is only part of the story.

If you really want to claim agreement with CCC 107, then you’d better toss out all of your Protestant Bibles (KJV, etc.), because none of them contain the full Bible that is referred to in that Article of Faith. Sad, but true. So, it looks like you don’t have the whole truth that you thought you had. You’d better get a Catholic version if you want the whole thing.

 

[CCC_107]

Full Definition of **CONFIDE **(per Merriam-Webster)

intransitive verb
1: to have confidence : trust
2: to show confidence by imparting secrets

transitive verb
1: to tell confidentially

2: ** to give to the care or protection of another** : entrust
(emphasis mine)

The usage of confide (confided) that is relevant in this instance is the #2 definition, as a transitive verb. The writings of Scripture from the authors that were inspired by the Holy Spirit were “given to the care and protection” of, or “entrusted to” the Bible, as it was compiled by the Catholic Church. In other words, those writings are the ones that contain the truth that those writers received from Jesus, Himself, or by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. All others that were not found to be worthy of consideration as Scripture, were left out. There were hundreds of writings considered by the Church, but only the ones that the Church approved (through the Magisterium) as authentic were included. But, the Bible is only the part that what was written down, as I said in a previous post, so it is only part of the story.

If you really want to claim agreement with CCC 107, then you’d better toss out all of your Protestant Bibles (KJV, etc.), because none of them contain the full Bible that is referred to in that Article of Faith. Sad, but true. So, it looks like you don’t have the whole truth that you thought you had. You’d better get a Catholic version if you want the whole thing.

Again I agree wholeheartedly that it is God’s will the truth is entrusted to the scriptures as protection.

I might even agree on that full bible, when you provide evidence in those books, which is necessary for salvation and isn’t revealed in the other 66. Thanks for your contribution.

 

[Gorgias]

I understand that when I confide in someone that it stays there. You apparently have a different meaning for confiding, but fail to say exactly what that is. Please explain.

We have.

‘Confide’ isn’t the word that’s in the original Latin of the document that the Catechism quotes, nor is it the word in the Vatican’s English translation of that document. It is the word in the translation present in the Catechism in English, however. If you wish to assert that it means exclusively “stays there”, you’ll need to explain how that definition also fits with the word in the original text (consignari). Otherwise, your assertions dissolve into a simple disagreement over the definition of what a single word – in a translation, no less! – means. And, sorry to say, if you want your definition to hold, you’ll have to demonstrate your authority to make your own definition (and its connotations) stick. Let me confide to you that you aren’t the sole arbiter of what the Catechism means.

 

[CCC_107]

Full Definition of **CONFIDE **(per Merriam-Webster)

intransitive verb
1: to have confidence : trust
2: to show confidence by imparting secrets

transitive verb
1: to tell confidentially

2: ** to give to the care or protection of another** : entrust
(emphasis mine)

We have.

‘Confide’ isn’t the word that’s in the original Latin of the document that the Catechism quotes, nor is it the word in the Vatican’s English translation of that document. It is the word in the translation present in the Catechism in English, however. If you wish to assert that it means exclusively “stays there”, you’ll need to explain how that definition also fits with the word in the original text (consignari). Otherwise, your assertions dissolve into a simple disagreement over the definition of what a single word – in a translation, no less! – means. And, sorry to say, if you want your definition to hold, you’ll have to demonstrate your authority to make your own definition (and its connotations) stick. Let me confide to you that you aren’t the sole arbiter of what the Catechism means.

I don’t have a problem with that it is the will of God that truth is entrusted to the scriptures as protection.

cōnsignārī is the present passive infinitive of cōnsignō
cōnsignō means to furnish with a seal

Thank you very much for your contribution! We both know now that the hierarchy has discerned that it is the will of God that the truth written in the scriptures is sealed up.

 

[Darryl_B]

Thanks for telling me as an authority… (what you aren’t an authority as you have to seek interpretation from your superiors), that I don’t understand. I like to differ. His sheep hear His voice and you need the voice of your superiors to tell you what they have heard.

CCC 107 is correct in that the truth is entrusted to the scriptures. You are fighting your own article of faith.

2 Corinthians 10: 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

You cannot do that, as your only option is to make your thoughts obedient to your church.

My friend, you neglected to read the second half of CCC108 which I cited.

If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, “open our minds to understand the Scriptures”.

My friend, if what you say about yourself is correct, and that you are in fact what you profess to be, I will truly seek to remain Catholic.

 

[CCC_107]

My friend, you neglected to read the second half of CCC108 which I cited.

If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, “open our minds to understand the Scriptures”.

I totally agree. I am sure there are many more paragraphs, with which I agree.

 

[Darryl_B]

I don’t have a problem with that it is the will of God that truth is entrusted to the scriptures as protection.

cōnsignārī is the present passive infinitive of cōnsignō
cōnsignō means to furnish with a seal

Thank you very much for your contribution! We both know now that the hierarchy has discerned that it is the will of God that the truth written in the scriptures is sealed up.

To furnish with a seal. Something a King will do to a letter addressed to a specific addressee to prove it is from the one who wrote it. It can only be opened by the addressee. It is also oblivious (hidden shrouded) to anyone else who is not the addressee.

In fact those oblivious might even cite it out of context as a proof of how skilled they are in the art of destroying argument within their own mind, if it should seem appropriate.

 

[CCC_107]

cōnsignārī is the present passive infinitive of cōnsignō
cōnsignō means to furnish with a seal

Thank you very much for your contribution! We both know now that the hierarchy has discerned that it is the will of God that the truth written in the scriptures is sealed up

.

To furnish with a seal. Something a King will do to a letter addressed to a specific addressee to prove it is from the one who wrote it. It can only be opened by the addressee. It is also oblivious (hidden shrouded) to anyone else who is not the addressee.

In fact those oblivious might even cite it out of context as a proof of how skilled they are in the art of destroying argument within their own mind, if it should seem appropriate.

Thank you too for your valuable contribution, that the hierarchy discerned that God proved that the truth is sealed up in the scriptures.

Therefore All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

This scripture affirms CCC 107 and so do I.

 

[Telstar]

I totally agree. I am sure there are many more paragraphs, with which I agree.

And, the rest of us can all plainly see that you are sticking to your Sola Scriptura methods of picking and choosing (aka data-mining) whatever passages you WISH to believe (usually by severe twisting of their true meaning), while ignoring all other relevant verses contained in the remainder of the document, to draw an incorrect conclusion that fits with what you WISH to believe, instead of seeing the real Truth. That is pathetic.

 

[Telstar]

.

Thank you too for your valuable contribution, that the hierarchy discerned that God proved that the truth is sealed up in the scriptures.

Therefore All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

This scripture affirms CCC 107 and so do I.

Unfortunately, it’s obvious that some people just refuse to be taught anything, because they THINK they know it all.

 

[CCC_107]

It is very clear that you pursue an agenda here since you choose to argue that the Church teaches Sola Scriptura in contradiction of her other teachings but that is not true. Again…lets have a look at your citation in context and we can plainly see that you have cherry picked something to seek to disturb the faith of faithful Catholics…but that isn’t going to happen so just

CCC #107* “Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.”*
I fully agree with CCC 107.

There is no CONTEXT, as the hierarchy has discerned that it is God’s will that the truth is entrusted and sealed in the scriptures. God’s will isn’t subjected to context or your personal interpretation, otherwise He is no longer sovereign. Are you still disagreeable?

 

[CCC_107]

Thank you too for your valuable contribution, that the hierarchy discerned that God proved that the truth is sealed up in the scriptures.

Therefore All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

This scripture affirms CCC 107 and so do I.

Unfortunately, it’s obvious that some people just refuse to be taught anything, because they THINK they know it all.

Can you point out exactly where I went wrong? Otherwise you don’t have an argument and my point looks a lot better. I am here to learn, but as a disciple of Christ I cannot accept anything without understanding it first (Luke 8:10). I sincerely hope that you understand that and I forgive you for that little slip.

 

[graciew]

---

2 Corinthians 10: 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

You cannot do that, as** your only option is to make your thoughts obedient to your church.**

Who is " we" ?

What is your option?

 

[CCC_107]

Who is " we" ?

What is your option?

My option I have made very clear which is to demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 2 Corinthians 10: 5

CCC 107 has already established that it is God’s will that the saving truth is entrusted and sealed in the scriptures. With the powerful presence of the indwelling Holy Spirit, who teaches us everything it isn’t difficult to figure out what is written, as His sheep hear His voice.

Is your approach different?

 

[Darryl_B]

My option I have made very clear which is to demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 2 Corinthians 10: 5

CCC 107 has already established that it is God’s will that the saving truth is entrusted and sealed in the scriptures. With the powerful presence of the indwelling Holy Spirit, who teaches us everything it isn’t difficult to figure out what is written, as His sheep hear His voice.

Is your approach different?

Yes it is. I was protestant for 18 years, and in the early days it was wonderful and simple. You and I could have ridden side by side on our crusade, we had after all been told we will know everything just by believing, and the Holy Spirit will guarantee knowledge. But you haven’t done that right now. You have claimed that you can figure out sacred scripture because it is easy. I think as a protestant I would have been suspicious of you at that point on are crusade, but I would still carry on with you,

I think I would have disagreed with you when we discussed motto. I respect sacred Scripture. I would never try to apply 2 Corinthians 10:5 to me myself and I. We might have continued our crusade even when you said that, but I doubt it, I would not want to ride along someone on our quest who thought Scripture was actually them. Here is my sword, I am a sheep, here is my sword, I am a sheep, here is my sword, I am a sheep. Jesus Christ just always talks about me.

Read the Bible, there’s me in that verse, that verse is also about me, there’s another one about me. No I think even as a protestant we would have parted ways. That is not protestant my friend. That is simply not protestant.

So after parting ways, I would on my journey eventually find myself Catholic and on my knees before God, but I would read about you still 50 60 or 70 still fighting the same somewhat confusing non-existent fight.

 

[CCC_107]

I would never try to apply 2 Corinthians 10:5 to me myself and I.

Why is it that what God revealed in 2 Corinthians 10:5 is of no value to you? Do you lack understanding?

 

[Darryl_B]

Why is it that what God revealed in 2 Corinthians 10:5 is of no value to you? Do you lack understanding?

It is value to me in context, it is just not ABOUT me, it promotes authority of the Catholic Church when read in context. Is it school holidays?

 

[Gorgias]

I don’t have a problem with that it is the will of God that truth is entrusted to the scriptures as protection.

cōnsignārī is the present passive infinitive of cōnsignō
cōnsignō means to furnish with a seal

Thank you very much for your contribution! We both know now that the hierarchy has discerned that it is the will of God that the truth written in the scriptures is sealed up.

Keep reading the definition; don’t stop there. Consigno means “to seal, to vouch or authenticate, to record”. The Bible, then, is sealed by God – that is, He places His seal on it to vouch that it is His record of His self-revelation.

Thank you for your contribution! We both know now that the hierarchy has discerned that the truth that God wished to vouch for in the Scriptures is truly there, and that is what CCC 107 affirms.

Since you believe in Catholic teaching, isn’t time you finally enter into the Catholic Church and give up your other, non-Catholic beliefs?

 

[CCC_107]

And, the rest of us can all plainly see that you are sticking to your Sola Scriptura methods of picking and choosing (aka data-mining) whatever passages you WISH to believe (usually by severe twisting of their true meaning), while ignoring all other relevant verses contained in the remainder of the document, to draw an incorrect conclusion that fits with what you WISH to believe, instead of seeing the real Truth. That is pathetic.

CCC #107 “Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.”

Correct me if I am wrong, but CCC 107 clearly states that it is God’s will that the truth needed for salvation is entrusted and sealed in the scriptures. I wholeheartedly agree!

What you are now saying is that God’s will is subject to the rest of the catechism, which makes the Lord Jesus, no longer sovereign. Is that what you find pathetic?

If there is any evidence that I severely twisted this passage and my explanation of its logical consequences, then please be kind enough to persevere and explain your great understanding.