A Specific Question About Heavenly Self-Identity

[mytruepower2]

This question is to do with the identity of the self in Heaven. The answer to this question may be different with regard to Hell, or even Purgatory.

Since I was six years old, I’ve realized that there were two major things that I cared about.

1. Being happy.
2. Being -me- when I’m happy.

Saint Thomas Aquinas, Saint Paul and Jesus (the church minds who I’m most familiar with on the subject of Heaven,) all agree that Heaven is a place of great happiness. So, the only question is; are souls still themselves in Heaven?

With respect to this, there’s much troubling data.

“If then any be in Christ a new creature, the old things are passed away. Behold all things are made new.”
2 Corinthians 5:17

“Amen, amen I say to you, unless the grain of wheat falling into the ground die, Itself remaineth alone. But if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.”
John 12:24-25a

“And I live, now not I; but Christ liveth in me.”
Galatians 2:20a

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot possess the kingdom of God: neither shall corruption possess incorruption.”
1 Corinthians 15:20

These are only a few of the passages in scripture that seem to support the view that our identity will not survive our death, but that we will only, through great effort at conformity to God’s will, be essentially devoured by him, and lose our own identity almost completely. Many apologists and preachers of the last couple centuries have, I’m afraid, expressed delight over either this, or something similar to this, including Archbishop Fulton Sheen, in his famous analogy of an animal devouring a plant, so that the “plant” can “enter” “his world.”

The words of Lee Strobel, (admittedly, not a Catholic,) I think, put it in the most terrifying way imaginable, when he says…

“Sure enough, over time as I endeavored to follow Jesus’ teachings and open myself to his transforming power, my priorities, my values, and my character were (and continue to be) gradually changed. Increasingly I want Jesus’ motives and perspective to be my own.”
-Lee Strobel; The Case For Christ-

What is identity, if not our desires, fears and character? Can we still claim to exist, if all of these things are bulldozed in this way? Strobel seems happy with his loss, but I wonder; is he able to be happy? Does he even still exist? He himself admits to not being the same man he once was. What happened to that man? Where is he now? Will he survive the journey into eternal life?

In fairness, there are counter-arguments to this view. St. Paul says in his testimony to Agrippa in Acts 26:8 that God can raise the dead, which, combined with the contents of John 12:24-25a, above, seems to indicate that the self might not be lost in this manner, but it’s a weak case at best, since the two verses come from utterly different contexts.

I seem to recall St. Thomas Aquinas having a good argument for the eternal survival of the individual, but I don’t remember exactly what he said. If anyone has any quotes from saints, theologians or popes on this topic, I’d be very interested in hearing them; especially if they present a possible solution to this dilemma.

After all, if I no longer exist in Heaven, I can’t -really- be happy there, right?

 

[ClearWater]

I think with God, we don’t need to change all of our lives and personalities, just the bad parts!

 

[ClearWater]

We were designed to be with God. Anything that takes us away from God is, ultimately, really what causes our ultimate unhappiness, not the reverse.

 

[bzkoss236]

If we know that someone knows better than we do, and we decide to follow their lead and to desire what they desire, is it really our desire? Yes, we just happen to desire the same thing. We do not lose our identity in heaven, instead we are in union with God. Losing or identity seems too much like the idea of Nirvana, where we become one with “everything” or one with God. I see a union as something different. Think of the union of the Trinity, 3 individual persons in the one being of God. They are all in union with each other, but they still hold individual identities. I think the same is to be said of us in heaven. We will hold our individual identities, but be joined in union in the Body of Christ.

 

[jesus4ever]

We must change what is displeasing to God not what make us happy and is good and pure. If I like to make people laugh because i am good at making jokes then I would think i will be able to do that in heaven AS WELL as long as they are not dirty jokes or jokes which are displease to god.

 

[bzkoss236]

We must change what is displeasing to God not what make us happy and is good and pure. If I like to make people laugh because i am good at making jokes then I would think i will be able to do that in heaven AS WELL as long as they are not dirty jokes or jokes which are displease to god.

I think we also need to distinguish that happiness is not the same as pleasure. So, what we may think is making us happy might lead ultimately to unhappiness. Only God knows what would truly make us happy, and that is following him.

 

[TK421]

You will be more you in Heaven than you ever are right now. Right now, the spirit can be willing, but the body can be weak. We can desire one thing in heart, but be tempted by another in flesh. We can aspire to be such and such person, and yet always be prevented from becoming it. In Heaven, all of our imperfections made manifest by our distance with God from sin will be no more. We will have a body, mind, heart, and soul that will corporate perfectly with our will, and - through love - our will will corporate perfectly with God. A crisis of identity is something to be feared here and now on Earth, not in Heaven.

 

[Beryllos]

Did you lose your identity when you grew from a child to an adolescent, and then to an adult? What about when you get married, or have children? When you grow in years and wisdom, do you become a different person? The way I see it, I am the same person, but I have undergone transformations in my life. Thank God for that! It is a good thing.

I am unfamiliar with the ideas you mentioned about being “absorbed” or “consumed.” I am inclined to think we retain our identity in eternal life, but we are transformed into something much better.

On the other hand, as we are purified and made holy, perhaps our differences will become slighter. As we share the experience of being in the glorious presence of God, we will have so much more in common. Perhaps we will become more like each other. Would you see that as a loss or a gain?

 

[JimG]

In heaven our will is totally in union with God’s will, and He is present to our will and to our intellect in an immediate fashion such as to be described as seeing Him “face to face.” But we do not surrender our identity. Our self, our identity, remains. I can still say “I” as subject. Every person is different, and will be so in heaven. It is not our sins that make us unique. We have no need of fearing a loss of identity by losing our inclination to sin.

One might use the analogy of an unborn child secure in the womb. If he could ponder the matter, he might think of birth as a kind of death. Everything will change. His safe world is coming to an end. He doesn’t know what comes next. There is no longer the security of the womb, the sound of the mothers heartbeat, the ease of the amniotic fluid. All that changes. Now there is light, there is noise, there is gravity, there are other people, there are strange voices, touches, a sudden assault of sensory (name removed by moderator)ut. Now for the first time he sees mom face to face. It’s the beginning of a new life, but it’s a scary process, being born. The same can be said of leaving this world for the next.

The Beatific Vision does not drown our identity. It perfects it. God creates a huge variety of people because each one is unique. It will remain so in heaven.

 

[WoundedIcon]

This is something that has always scared me. If most Christians are ones through fours on the distinctness/weirdness/w/e scale, and I’m way off at a eight, how can I ever be with them and like them without being eaten up by their subculture and ways? Can there be a patron saint of death metal? But I look at the saints, and their patronage, they still maintain their patronages due to their personalities and life stories, so I guess… but even the saints seem to only go to six on the nutter scale. I mean, those saints sometimes aren’t even seen as holy until hundreds of years after they die. St. Joan of Arc anyone?

I’m just scared that my personality is evil or something and I’ll have to tone myself down so much that I’ll never be me again.

 

[GEddie]

Any disruption of your personal being would only last for the duration of the separation of your soul.

The reason being, that you will finally receive pneumatikon soma (Spiritual Body); your own personal body, in which you will live and breathe forever!!

OP, I have a minor question:

You said your 2 greatest concerns in youth were

1. Being happy.
2. Being -me- when I’m happy.

Since presumably you have never consciously experienced NOT being “you”, how did you learn to be concerned about item 2?

ICXC NIKA.

 

[WoundedIcon]

Any disruption of your personal being would only last for the duration of the separation of your soul.

The reason being, that you will finally receive pneumatikon soma (Spiritual Body); your own personal body, in which you will live and breathe forever!!

OP, I have a minor question:

You said your 2 greatest concerns in youth were

Since presumably you have never consciously experienced NOT being “you”, how did you learn to be concerned about item 2?

ICXC NIKA.

It’s kind of like fearing death when you’re healthy in a way. Or maybe the person has tried to fake a different personality before and/or has been harassed for theirs, thus the fear.

 

[mytruepower2]

If we know that someone knows better than we do, and we decide to follow their lead and to desire what they desire, is it really our desire? Yes, we just happen to desire the same thing. We do not lose our identity in heaven, instead we are in union with God. Losing or identity seems too much like the idea of Nirvana, where we become one with “everything” or one with God. I see a union as something different. Think of the union of the Trinity, 3 individual persons in the one being of God. They are all in union with each other, but they still hold individual identities. I think the same is to be said of us in heaven. We will hold our individual identities, but be joined in union in the Body of Christ.

But unless we maintain some point of commonality with our pre-existing fears, desires, motives or character, how can the notion of individual identity be anything more than a semantic redefinition of the term?

I think we also need to distinguish that happiness is not the same as pleasure. So, what we may think is making us happy might lead ultimately to unhappiness. Only God knows what would truly make us happy, and that is following him.

Of course happiness is not the same thing as pleasure, but I think it would be too much to say that doing right and obeying God makes one happy. I know many people who are very -unhappy- when they do right and follow God’s will, myself included. I always feel unfulfilled, as though I’m missing out on something. I need to motivate myself to do right, because it’s certainly not its own reward.

If we’re thinking in terms of Thomism, it would be more correct to say that -God himself- is the source of all our happiness, and will always be so, and I have no problem with this. My problem is; am I being asked to give up my self-identity in exchange for that happiness?

You will be more you in Heaven than you ever are right now. Right now, the spirit can be willing, but the body can be weak. We can desire one thing in heart, but be tempted by another in flesh. We can aspire to be such and such person, and yet always be prevented from becoming it. In Heaven, all of our imperfections made manifest by our distance with God from sin will be no more. We will have a body, mind, heart, and soul that will corporate perfectly with our will, and - through love - our will will corporate perfectly with God. A crisis of identity is something to be feared here and now on Earth, not in Heaven.

I’ve heard this said before, and on the face of it, I’d like to believe it. Self-control, after all, is a virtue, and everything you’ve described is the supernatural fulfillment of that. Still, in that case, how does one make sense of all the scripture passages that talk about the old man dying and such?

Did you lose your identity when you grew from a child to an adolescent, and then to an adult? What about when you get married, or have children? When you grow in years and wisdom, do you become a different person? The way I see it, I am the same person, but I have undergone transformations in my life. Thank God for that! It is a good thing.

I am unfamiliar with the ideas you mentioned about being “absorbed” or “consumed.” I am inclined to think we retain our identity in eternal life, but we are transformed into something much better.

On the other hand, as we are purified and made holy, perhaps our differences will become slighter. As we share the experience of being in the glorious presence of God, we will have so much more in common. Perhaps we will become more like each other. Would you see that as a loss or a gain?

I would see it as a loss, and it’s funny you should mention growing up, because actually, I have the same concerns about my life as an adult by comparison to my life as a child.

Now, I do feel I’m better off as an adult than I was as a -teenager,- but that’s because I read the Summa Theologica a few years ago and had my questions answered. Even so, I feel I’ve lost many things from my childhood, which were not evil, and which I want to have back, such as my enjoyment of simple happinesses, and my innocent idealism. As an adult, I’ve learned to understand more of the world around me, and to marvel at it less, so it’s always been a mixed bag, and I certainly don’t see my identity as the same now as it was then.

Truthfully, what I’d really like to see would be a miraculous act of God, in which he plucks from all of time and space the best features of each of the Saints in each period of their lives. There’s no contradiction involved in this, but again, this involves preserving some elements of “the old man,” and I find myself looking at the evidence again.

 

[mytruepower2]

In heaven our will is totally in union with God’s will, and He is present to our will and to our intellect in an immediate fashion such as to be described as seeing Him “face to face.” But we do not surrender our identity. Our self, our identity, remains. I can still say “I” as subject. Every person is different, and will be so in heaven. It is not our sins that make us unique. We have no need of fearing a loss of identity by losing our inclination to sin.

One might use the analogy of an unborn child secure in the womb. If he could ponder the matter, he might think of birth as a kind of death. Everything will change. His safe world is coming to an end. He doesn’t know what comes next. There is no longer the security of the womb, the sound of the mothers heartbeat, the ease of the amniotic fluid. All that changes. Now there is light, there is noise, there is gravity, there are other people, there are strange voices, touches, a sudden assault of sensory (name removed by moderator)ut. Now for the first time he sees mom face to face. It’s the beginning of a new life, but it’s a scary process, being born. The same can be said of leaving this world for the next.

The Beatific Vision does not drown our identity. It perfects it. God creates a huge variety of people because each one is unique. It will remain so in heaven.

On the topic of losing the inclination to sin, I would suspect it’s more like losing -both- the inclination -and- the opportunity, but the opportunity foremost.

Still, sin is really nothing more than offending God, so all you have to do is restructure the world in such a way that offending God is not possible. I have no difficulty picturing this as a type of Heaven.

I agree that it’s not our sins that make us unique. I presented three factors which, I think, help to differentiate us from one another; desires, fears and character. Now, in heaven, people have what they desire, and will never have what they fear, so it would be more like “tastes, distastes and character,” but the point remains the same.

I’ve never been fond of the analogy of the unborn child myself, because while the unborn child is a child, he remains safe from personal sin, but I understand the general principle. The issue is not that the idea of going into another world is scary. I find it absolutely intoxicating. The problem is only this; is it still -me- going to that other world? Do I still possess some points of commonality with the -me- that I now am, or the -me- that I was twenty years ago? If the answer to any of these questions is “no,” I think a lot of philosophical ink will need to be spilled over why this is/can be desirable, if the person doing the desiring is not the person reaping the benefits.

This is something that has always scared me. If most Christians are ones through fours on the distinctness/weirdness/w/e scale, and I’m way off at a eight, how can I ever be with them and like them without being eaten up by their subculture and ways? Can there be a patron saint of death metal? But I look at the saints, and their patronage, they still maintain their patronages due to their personalities and life stories, so I guess… but even the saints seem to only go to six on the nutter scale. I mean, those saints sometimes aren’t even seen as holy until hundreds of years after they die. St. Joan of Arc anyone?

I’m just scared that my personality is evil or something and I’ll have to tone myself down so much that I’ll never be me again.

Actually, it’s funny you should mention metal, because as a teenager, I actually found that metal bands taught me more of the truths of the faith than the local parish priest’s homilies, sadly. The big one being “No, things are -not- alright, and it’s mostly our fault.”

The saints, in turn, are an excellent example of just how much variety is possible within the realms of holiness, and I’d be basically satisfied with that. The problem is that as varied as the saints may be, the only evidence we have of what they were like was still gathered on Earth, so this really says nothing about Heaven or the nature of the self there.

Since presumably you have never consciously experienced NOT being “you”, how did you learn to be concerned about item 2?

ICXC NIKA.

Well, I said I’d been concerned with this since I was six, but I’ve only been able to -articulate- it as such since then. It actually started when I was four. I asked my father if there would be toys in Heaven, and his reply was “No. You won’t care about them in Heaven.”

That sounded wrong to me (and later turned out to be, as I studied theology.) Still, it got me thinking about the identity of the self, because I knew for a fact that any person who no longer cared about play would be indistinguishable from “me.” In no sense could I call those two persons the same. I continue to hold this view.

 

[bzkoss236]

But unless we maintain some point of commonality with our pre-existing fears, desires, motives or character, how can the notion of individual identity be anything more than a semantic redefinition of the term?

These things do not define our identity because these things can change. If our desires change, do we become a different person? No. We are subject to change, and as such, these things can change on our path to heaven.

Fear? What is there to fear being in the full presence of God (the most powerful being)?
Desires? What is there that we should desire other than God himself, the source of true happiness?
Motives? If we join in union with the Beatific Vision in heaven, our only motive should be because God wills it, because we’ll know, as we should know now, that God knows what is best.
Character? Our character is only a culmination of our experiences on earth. This is something we can’t lose.

What makes you an individual with your identity doesn’t come from what kind of person you are, because that can change with time. Your identity comes from who you came from, which is ultimately God. God gives you your identity as an individual that is unique.

People can act the same, people can have the same dreams and desires, the same fears, but there is only ever one you. Why are you the only you? Because God made you that way.

 

[mytruepower2]

These things do not define our identity because these things can change. If our desires change, do we become a different person? No. We are subject to change, and as such, these things can change on our path to heaven.

Fear? What is there to fear being in the full presence of God (the most powerful being)?
Desires? What is there that we should desire other than God himself, the source of true happiness?
Motives? If we join in union with the Beatific Vision in heaven, our only motive should be because God wills it, because we’ll know, as we should know now, that God knows what is best.
Character? Our character is only a culmination of our experiences on earth. This is something we can’t lose.

What makes you an individual with your identity doesn’t come from what kind of person you are, because that can change with time. Your identity comes from who you came from, which is ultimately God. God gives you your identity as an individual that is unique.

People can act the same, people can have the same dreams and desires, the same fears, but there is only ever one you. Why are you the only you? Because God made you that way.

I’m going to resist the urge to derail the discussion into the nature of time and its relationship to the human soul (another topic in which I’ve taken a great interest,) and merely respond to the main, relevant points that you made.

You began with a denial that any of the things I mentioned are essential in differentiating us from other human beings.

First, you asked what there is to fear in the presence of God. Yes, this is part of the problem. How can we be distinct in this area if we all exist in the same state of non-fear? I think the answer is that we can’t be. One pillar of our identity is therefore effectively bulldozed.

Secondly, you asked “what should we desire?” In this respect, I just have to say, is it a sin to desire certain things that God doesn’t particularly seem to care about? I’ve never seen a good argument for this being the case.

Third, again, you remark that in Heaven, our motives should be what God wills. However, apart from the same problem as #2, there’s also the issue that since God is a timeless being who always wills the same thing, our wills would also become unchangable and identical. Pillar 3 is demolished.

Fourth, you say that our character is something we can’t lose, but as we were just discussing, we’re constantly losing one state of character and adopting another one; at least while we’re here on Earth, so I think it’s obvious that we can lose our character. With regard to how our character fares in Heaven, the issue is not just this (character can apparently change, even in Purgatory,) but rather the issue that our character needs to be perfected in some way. To perfect something means to make it so that it lacks nothing. If one human character lacks nothing, it will be identical to another human character that lacks nothing, thus demolishing pillar #4.

Finally, you did attempt to establish a point of commonality between the old me and the new me. Namely, that we were both created by God. But while this is a point of commonality between the me of different time periods, what it doesn’t do is differentiate me from anyone else. Everyone was created by God, and so everyone is identical, if this is the only thing about me that makes me me.

I frankly find this reply terrifying, because I still see no sufficient point of commonality between living and resurrected “selves,” which would justify Heavenly self-identity.

 

[bzkoss236]

I’m going to resist the urge to derail the discussion into the nature of time and its relationship to the human soul (another topic in which I’ve taken a great interest,) and merely respond to the main, relevant points that you made.

You began with a denial that any of the things I mentioned are essential in differentiating us from other human beings.

First, you asked what there is to fear in the presence of God. Yes, this is part of the problem. How can we be distinct in this area if we all exist in the same state of non-fear? I think the answer is that we can’t be. One pillar of our identity is therefore effectively bulldozed.

Secondly, you asked “what should we desire?” In this respect, I just have to say, is it a sin to desire certain things that God doesn’t particularly seem to care about? I’ve never seen a good argument for this being the case.

Third, again, you remark that in Heaven, our motives should be what God wills. However, apart from the same problem as #2, there’s also the issue that since God is a timeless being who always wills the same thing, our wills would also become unchangable and identical. Pillar 3 is demolished.

Fourth, you say that our character is something we can’t lose, but as we were just discussing, we’re constantly losing one state of character and adopting another one; at least while we’re here on Earth, so I think it’s obvious that we can lose our character. With regard to how our character fares in Heaven, the issue is not just this (character can apparently change, even in Purgatory,) but rather the issue that our character needs to be perfected in some way. To perfect something means to make it so that it lacks nothing. If one human character lacks nothing, it will be identical to another human character that lacks nothing, thus demolishing pillar #4.

Finally, you did attempt to establish a point of commonality between the old me and the new me. Namely, that we were both created by God. But while this is a point of commonality between the me of different time periods, what it doesn’t do is differentiate me from anyone else. Everyone was created by God, and so everyone is identical, if this is the only thing about me that makes me me.

I frankly find this reply terrifying, because I still see no sufficient point of commonality between living and resurrected “selves,” which would justify Heavenly self-identity.

You completely missed my point. God created us all as individuals, unique from everyone else. My soul is mine and no one else’s. My body is mine and no one else’s. That’s what sets me apart. God wants you to be perfected, yes, but this doesn’t mean that you’ll be just like everyone else. God has a specific and individual plan for you, and if you follow God, he will perfect you to make you the perfect you, not the perfect someone else.

In fact, your definition of identity causes the problems you speak of, turning us into other people, constantly changing and forming ourselves into others, because no one has unique fears, desires, and motives. Your character is the closest thing to your identity, but since it is always being molded into something more, it cannot define your identity since an identity is an objective identifier and, therefore, cannot change. However, your character is getting closer to your true identity if you follow God. God gave you your identity, a unique and individual identity. God wants to perfect you, not to be like a mold and come out just like everyone else, but to bring you into his complete vision for you in which you do not have to fear, in which you will be able to experience true happiness, love, and compassion.

 

[GEddie]

I think some definitions are in order:

What do you mean by “character” for example. I have always understood that to mean moral underpinnings, personality, etc. None of that makes you “you;” it is trained into your psyche over the course of your life.

Fears? We all fear different things in the course of our life. As a child, one does not usually fear death. As an adult, one no longer fears monsters under the bed. Which set of these changing fears makes you “you”?

Desires? Those change too, even more all-encompassingly than do our fears.

If anything makes you you, it would be in your mind and your body. We will lose the body; that cannot be helped. But based on what we know about afterlife from Scripture (there’s not a lot), our minds will somehow be preserved unto eternal life and the pneumatikon soma.

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Regency]

Those who live in heaven are born of Spirit, born gain. Their conscience does not convict them of their past sins. A child is not convicted of sin.

 

[mytruepower2]

You completely missed my point. God created us all as individuals, unique from everyone else. My soul is mine and no one else’s. My body is mine and no one else’s. That’s what sets me apart. God wants you to be perfected, yes, but this doesn’t mean that you’ll be just like everyone else. God has a specific and individual plan for you, and if you follow God, he will perfect you to make you the perfect you, not the perfect someone else.

In fact, your definition of identity causes the problems you speak of, turning us into other people, constantly changing and forming ourselves into others, because no one has unique fears, desires, and motives. Your character is the closest thing to your identity, but since it is always being molded into something more, it cannot define your identity since an identity is an objective identifier and, therefore, cannot change. However, your character is getting closer to your true identity if you follow God. God gave you your identity, a unique and individual identity. God wants to perfect you, not to be like a mold and come out just like everyone else, but to bring you into his complete vision for you in which you do not have to fear, in which you will be able to experience true happiness, love, and compassion.

I think we’re getting closer to an answer when you point out that no one has unique fears, desires or motives. For various reasons, I’ve failed to notice this in the past.

Still, these things are surely not dispensable in the human person. They can’t be.

In any case, I think what’s still missing is the point of commonality within oneself and differentiation from others. I’m afraid I’m still not seeing that.

I think some definitions are in order:

What do you mean by “character” for example. I have always understood that to mean moral underpinnings, personality, etc. None of that makes you “you;” it is trained into your psyche over the course of your life.

Fears? We all fear different things in the course of our life. As a child, one does not usually fear death. As an adult, one no longer fears monsters under the bed. Which set of these changing fears makes you “you”?

Desires? Those change too, even more all-encompassingly than do our fears.

If anything makes you you, it would be in your mind and your body. We will lose the body; that cannot be helped. But based on what we know about afterlife from Scripture (there’s not a lot), our minds will somehow be preserved unto eternal life and the pneumatikon soma.

ICXC NIKA.

Well, I already said that these problems in understanding self-identity have just as much to do with the difference between childhood and adulthood as they do with the difference between this life and the next. I am, again, tempted to get into time theory here, as I find this to be a strong motivator in adopting the view that events/states don’t really “cease to exist” as such. If you believe that events/states do cease to exist, then you’re also committed to the view that time is, by necessity, a constant loss of key parts of yourself.

The mind can’t be what distinguishes me from others, because other people also have minds. The body can’t be what distinguishes me from others, because other people also have bodies. The union of body and mind can’t be what distinguishes me from others, because other people also have united bodies and minds. The point which unites me, and differentiates me from others must be something else.

Traditionally, it was believed that each of us had a metaphysical existence, which represented the boundaries of ourselves, but a metaphysical existence, as far as I can tell, is unaware of itself. I know I’m not personally aware of it, and I don’t think of it as “me.”

There’s got to be some answer to this question that holds together, though. I guess I’m just still searching, which is why I posted this topic to begin with. I do, however, identify myself very strongly according to my personality and the desires that I have (particularly those I will to have,) so something of my identity must be present in that. Is it the direction of the will? If so, why couldn’t someone just argue that no one has a unique will, so these things don’t represent our identity? Yet, clearly, the will is the highest function of the mind, as it allows us to make moral choices.

Those who live in heaven are born of Spirit, born gain. Their conscience does not convict them of their past sins. A child is not convicted of sin.

The cleansing of the soul from sin is important, but not really the issue. My question was to do with whether our identity and individuality can even exist in “perfect” union with God, and if not, can the saints in Heaven claim to “exist” at all?