A specific question on marrage, masterbation and sex

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Lexxi74

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First of all, I spologise for the necessity of having adult content in this question but I did try to keep it as appropriate as possible.
I am a Catholic woman engaged to a Catholic man whom I love dearly amd I know God has put him my life amd lead me to him. We have about a year until we get married and we both agreed from square one that we would practice chastity. Through God’s grace and my fiancé’s patience and love I have overcome many of the sexual fears I have from multiple instances of sexual assult I endured in my teenage years. However, as our wedding draws nearer I find myself no longer able to ignore a certain persistant fear I have. I am unusually small, to the point the even the smallest, easiest to use tampons can be difficult and painful for me. I know that it is possible for two people to be incaplable of intercourse because of a size difference. I also know that this problem can be solved by starting with a small sex toy & gradually increasing the size. But I also know that masturbation, even mutual masturbation in marrage without the intent to have sex is considered a grave matter and a sin. And I know marrage is for those who can preform the marital act. But I also know that God has called me to the married life. I have spent much time in prayer decerning this.
Right now, I don’t know what I suppose to do. How can I get married without sinning & leading my finacé into sin?
 
Lexxi,

What you describe is a medical condition; addressing that condition with appropriate therapy doesn’t necessarily have to be a sin or a near occasion of sin. Do you have a Catholic primary care physician or gynecologist? You might want to talk to them about your concerns, and ask what approaches you can take in order to address the issues you’ve mentioned here. If you explained your concerns as a Catholic, it would seem that they would be able to work with you to find a course of action or a therapy that would be beneficial to you without offending your conscience.

Finally, I would encourage you to speak to your pastor (or to another priest), if possible, if you feel comfortable discussing such sensitive matters with him. Alternatively, you could discuss the matter with your confessor. After all, the sin of masturbation is defined as “the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure.” In your case, any therapy designed to enable you to have licit sexual relations with your husband in the future wouldn’t be taking place at the time of that therapy as if it were “deliberate stimulation” for “sexual pleasure”, per se. Your pastor, confessor, or another priest would be the proper person to go to with this issue: after all, there seems to be the completely legitimate question of whether this would count as masturbation at all.

Blessings,

G.
 
If the end of masturbation is to seek sexual pleasure from self stimulation, and if you are small enough that even small tampons can cause some discomfort or pain, then a process in which objects that would gradually increase over time are used to stretch you out, which will likely be a painful process, could it rightly be called masturbation and not a medical procedure?

This is something that you might need to address with your priest.
 
Gorgias said:
Lexxi,

What you describe is a medical condition; addressing that condition with appropriate therapy doesn’t necessarily have to be a sin or a near occasion of sin. Do you have a Catholic primary care physician or gynecologist? You might want to talk to them about your concerns, and ask what approaches you can take in order to address the issues you’ve mentioned here. If you explained your concerns as a Catholic, it would seem that they would be able to work with you to find a course of action or a therapy that would be beneficial to you without offending your conscience.

Finally, I would encourage you to speak to your pastor (or to another priest), if possible, if you feel comfortable discussing such sensitive matters with him. Alternatively, you could discuss the matter with your confessor. After all, the sin of masturbation is defined as “the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure.” In your case, any therapy designed to enable you to have licit sexual relations with your husband in the future wouldn’t be taking place at the time of that therapy as if it were “deliberate stimulation” for “sexual pleasure”, per se. Your pastor, confessor, or another priest would be the proper person to go to with this issue: after all, there seems to be the completely legitimate question of whether this would count as masturbation at all.

Blessings,

G.
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👍👍
 
Masturbation *for any reason *(for example medical condition of a man or woman) is gravely disordered.

One must seek the right means to the end. And chastely etc.

Contact a faithful Catholic doctor (like connected to the Paul VI institute) and seek medical advise that is not contrary to the faith.

It may be something that may need to be addressed after the marriage (though such would need to come up prior I think - in some chaste and modest way–as part marriage prep)
 
You mention sexual assaults when you were a teen. I hate to ask, but did any of those assaults include penetration? No need to answer, just think about it from a psychological perspective. You may be unconsciously tensing whenever an object (like a tampon) comes close to your vaginal opening. If you are tensing, you are tightening your internal muscles. If you are over-tightening to keep out an invader that could be the cause of the discomfort. If that’s the case, you may need professional counseling to help you learn to relax your vaginal muscles.

Also, if none of the above is helpful and you don’t want to speak to a doctor about this or feel uneasy about using “marital aids” as part of a treatment plan, you do have the option of discussing it with your future husband. After the marriage he can do with his fingers what a “marital aid” does. If your husband arouses you he can slowly stretch you with his fingers until you can accept him without pain.
 
I am a nurse practitioner in the women’s health field. I suspect that you may be pleasantly surprised after your marriage to discover that intercourse is perfectly comfortable for you–at least after a little time time and if your husband is patient and gentle. Having said that, and in case this isn’t the case, I will tell you what is done for women who perhaps develop this problem after pelvic radiation therapy for cancers such as ovarian or colon cancer. Radiation literally can burn and scar vaginal tissue to the point that it is no longer elastic and sometimes even has adhesions that shorten actual vaginal length. A set of vaginal dilators, prescribed by a knowledgeable provider–small at first and increasing in size–can be inserted and left in place over a period of time to gradually increase vaginal size. I wouldn’t consider this to be artificial stimulation, as I have yet to meet a woman who enjoyed this process–rather, it is a means to an end as are most medical therapies. The dilators aren’t painful as they begin very small and increase in size over weeks-- but they really aren’t pleasurable either. I guess I would describe them as more of an unpleasant necessity in some cases. If you are very worried about this issue, you might consider visiting with your Gyn provider and discussing the subject prior to your marriage, as it sounds like you certainly have plenty of time to solve any issue beforehand–if it exists.
 
april32010 said:
40.png
Bookcat:
Masturbation for any reason (for example medical condition of a man or woman) is gravely disordered.
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wrong
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Actually, Bookcat is making a true statement here: masturbation is disordered. However, if Bookcat is trying to say that this situation is an example of masturbation, that’s where he’s in error. The definition of this term includes the requirement that it be done “in order to derive sexual pleasure.” That is not the case here, and therefore, I’d assert, this doesn’t meet the definition of masturbation. Although there’s the prospect of genital contact under consideration, that alone is not sufficient; after all, we wouldn’t consider a gynecological exam ‘masturbation’, would we? Of course not…! Likewise, this situation (unless we’re suggesting that the OP is talking about self-graduation as an intended end or means - and there’s nothing here to suggest that this is the case!) doesn’t meet the catechism’s definition…
 
Masturbation works towards a climax. Using dilators is having an object in place, while you read, watch TV, etc. Certainly can’t be classed as masturbation. Dont panic!
 
Gorgias said:
Actually, Bookcat is making a true statement here: masturbation is disordered. However, if Bookcat is trying to say that this situation is an example of masturbation, that’s where he’s in error. The definition of this term includes the requirement that it be done “in order to derive sexual pleasure.” That is not the case here, and therefore, I’d assert, this doesn’t meet the definition of masturbation. Although there’s the prospect of genital contact under consideration, that alone is not sufficient; after all, we wouldn’t consider a gynecological exam ‘masturbation’, would we? Of course not…! Likewise, this situation (unless we’re suggesting that the OP is talking about self-graduation as an intended end or means - and there’s nothing here to suggest that this is the case!) doesn’t meet the catechism’s definition…
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if you going to quote the catechism ,
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.”138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”139 (1735)
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April,

I’m not certain what you’re attempting to say with your highlight from the catechism. Are you suggesting that medical treatments – which themselves are not a source of sexual pleasure – are a “use of the sexual faculty” that the catechism condemns? That doesn’t seem reasonable. Or, are you suggesting that the advice given here represents a use of the sexual faculty outside of marriage? That too, has me scratching my head, since the OP clearly states that she’s looking at ways to make certain that she can have normal relations when she’s married… :hmmm:
 
Bookcat said:
Masturbation *for any reason *(for example medical condition of a man or woman) is gravely disordered.
Click to expand...
Bookcat this “contribution” is totally irrelevent and inappropriate and without considered application to the details and context supplied.

Clearly this is not about masturbation.
Why on earth would anyone think it is 🤷.
 
masturbation in the marital bed is not sin if ordered to the right end.
 
I would check with a Priest or someone perhaps more knowledgeable and trustworthy than us internet strangers, but I would say going to a gynecologist and using vaginal dilators is 100% morally permissible (IF you need it; as Starrsmother pointed out, you may not need one at all as long as you are properly prepared for sex). If going to a gynecologist or using a doctor in general is too expensive, I can’t see why using a marital aid to stretch the vaginal opening wouldn’t be morally permissible, so long as you use it like you would a vaginal dilator and don’t actually use it in a masturbatory way.
 
Lexxi74 said:
… However, as our wedding draws nearer I find myself no longer able to ignore a certain persistant fear I have. I am unusually small, to the point the even the smallest, easiest to use tampons can be difficult and painful for me. I know that it is possible for two people to be incaplable of intercourse because of a size difference. I also know that this problem can be solved by starting with a small sex toy & gradually increasing the size. But I also know that masturbation, even mutual masturbation in marrage without the intent to have sex is considered a grave matter and a sin. And I know marrage is for those who can preform the marital act. But I also know that God has called me to the married life. I have spent much time in prayer decerning this.
Right now, I don’t know what I suppose to do. How can I get married without sinning & leading my finacé into sin?
Click to expand...
I hope the following points assist you:
  1. You are not alone in being unable to insert a tampon. My wife told me the that this was her experience - she was never able to use them. In early days of our marriage, she remarked that she would never have imagined a penis could fit inside her.
  2. It may be that you will be unable to complete a conjugal act the first time you try. Join the club…(it took a few nights of practice…). Patience, understanding and some lubricant will likely see success.
  3. Most important is to seek medical advice - which most likely will confirm you have no physical problem. And if there is something unusual, it is very likely that it is easily corrected.
All will be well!
 
Gorgias said:
Lexxi,

What you describe is a medical condition; addressing that condition with appropriate therapy doesn’t necessarily have to be a sin or a near occasion of sin. Do you have a Catholic primary care physician or gynecologist? You might want to talk to them about your concerns, and ask what approaches you can take in order to address the issues you’ve mentioned here. If you explained your concerns as a Catholic, it would seem that they would be able to work with you to find a course of action or a therapy that would be beneficial to you without offending your conscience.

Finally, I would encourage you to speak to your pastor (or to another priest), if possible, if you feel comfortable discussing such sensitive matters with him. Alternatively, you could discuss the matter with your confessor. After all, the sin of masturbation is defined as “the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure.” In your case, any therapy designed to enable you to have licit sexual relations with your husband in the future wouldn’t be taking place at the time of that therapy as if it were “deliberate stimulation” for “sexual pleasure”, per se. Your pastor, confessor, or another priest would be the proper person to go to with this issue: after all, there seems to be the completely legitimate question of whether this would count as masturbation at all.

Blessings,

G.
Click to expand...
This is spot on advice.

If you are in some sort of formal therapy so that you can have relations with your husband, I wouldn’t classify it as masturbation.
 
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