A specific question regarding salvation

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Consider the following passages from the catechism:
Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. 2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

And,

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
Taken together, they make me ask the following:

Suicide often (always?) implies a serious disorder of the mind. Thus, culpability is lessened, and God can “provide the opportunity for salutary repentance.” Given that the God is the culmination of our entire spiritual lives, wouldn’t any action that takes us away from him (i.e. mortal sin) also imply a seriously disordered mind? Wouldn’t “dying in a state of mortal sin” be the most insane thing a person could do? I hold that it would be.

I conclude that it is compatible with Catholic theology to think that God may “provide the opportunity for salutary repentance” to anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin. Correct me if I am wrong.
 
I have heard this as well. I cannot point to any Church teaching the directly supports or rejects this. 🤷
 
Binary said:
Suicide often (always?) implies a serious disorder of the mind. Thus, culpability is lessened, and God can “provide the opportunity for salutary repentance.” Given that the God is the culmination of our entire spiritual lives, wouldn’t any action that takes us away from him (i.e. mortal sin) also imply a seriously disordered mind? Wouldn’t “dying in a state of mortal sin” be the most insane thing a person could do? I hold that it would be.
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I can see your point, but what is being referred to here is a disorder of the mind that places a person in a position where they are do not fulfill the requirement of mortal sin. In order for a sin to be mortal, one has to know that it is, then freely choose it.
Binary said:
I conclude that it is compatible with Catholic theology to think that God may “provide the opportunity for salutary repentance” to anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin. Correct me if I am wrong.
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This is certainly the concept of the Divine Mercy revelation. 👍
 
I think you’re confusing grave matter with mortal sin (of which grave matter is just one component).
 
Binary said:
I conclude that it is compatible with Catholic theology to think that God may “provide the opportunity for salutary repentance” to anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin. Correct me if I am wrong.
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The first part of your conclusion is correct. God may “provide the opportunity for salutary repentance”.

The second part is incorrect. to anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin.

The repentance must come before death. We do not know, it is impossible for us to know, and only God knows, the state of a soul at the moment of death.

There is some old saying about how many souls may repent between the saddle and the ground. It seems to us like a split second between the moment a person closes his eyes and when he dies, but for God’s grace to work it is plenty of time.

We are left not knowing, so we are told to not despair of anyone’s salvation, but to pray for all.

On the other hand Jesus said that the way to salvation is straight and narrow and few take that path, but many go the wide way to eternal loss. He des seem to be telling us that few are saved and most are lost. We are left wondering, always wondering, never certain.
 
Binary said:
Consider the following passages from the catechism:
Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. 2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

And,

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
Taken together, they make me ask the following:

Suicide often (always?) implies a serious disorder of the mind. Thus, culpability is lessened, and God can “provide the opportunity for salutary repentance.” Given that the God is the culmination of our entire spiritual lives, wouldn’t any action that takes us away from him (i.e. mortal sin) also imply a seriously disordered mind? Wouldn’t “dying in a state of mortal sin” be the most insane thing a person could do? I hold that it would be.

I conclude that it is compatible with Catholic theology to think that God may “provide the opportunity for salutary repentance” to anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin. Correct me if I am wrong.
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It does not take a “seriously disordered mind” to have premarital relations, which is a mortal sin. Nor does it take a “seriously disordered mind” to lay in bed on Sunday morning and say “I just don’t feel like getting up and going to Mass today”, which is another mortal sin.

For a mortal sin to be, it must be grave matter, the person committing the sin must understand this and must do it of his/her own free will. I don’t think it takes a seriously disordered mind for these three requirements to be present.

If the “understanding” is not there (whether the person is seriously disordered or just ignorant), then the sin is not mortal. That is why it is our duty as Catholics to inform people when they are doing something against Church teaching and risking their own salvation.
 
FWIW

I had this editorial comment for the local diocesan paper. Specifically, Fr. Rolheiser’s column regarding suicide. He’s a liberal priest and his opinions reflect that. He treads dangerously close to heresy with many of those opinions.

To begin with I had a family member do the dirty deed and that devastated my mother and the family, of which she never fully recovered. Starting from that perspective, my first inclination is to hope they are saved. But remember what a Mortal sin objectively is. Our culpability diminishes the sin but it remains, objectively, a Mortal sin nonetheless. Just like any murder.

This is my response to that article:

"Dear Editor,

"…Let’s compare some of Fr. Rolheiser’s thoughts to the Magisterial Teaching.

"Fr. Rolheiser: “Suicide is an illness”

"CCC 2282 (2): "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. Where is “illness” in that? Although these mental disturbances can DIMINISH one’s responsibility, it does not ELIMINATE it. He mentions that available medication is proof of this. Medication is a good thing and helpful. But there is also well-intentioned medication that lead people to suicide. Everyone still has free will.

"Fr. Rolheiser: “Suicide, in most cases,…is not a sin.”

"How would he know this? The Church teaches otherwise. Suicide always remains objectively a Mortal Sin, regardless of circumstance. Again, a person’s responsibility to it can be diminished but, Fr. Rolheiser’s verbiage can easily lead one to believe that the Church changed it’s teaching when it has not. What about other life’s “disturbances” like alcoholism, drug abuse, abortion, euthanasia, divorce and remarriage, etc. Are we to believe these are not sins anymore? Where is personal responsibility here?

“CCC 2281: "Suicide…is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family… to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.” CCC 2282: "If suicide is committed with setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

"The CCC specifically mentions two commandment violations in committing suicide. Love of God, Love of neighbor & Love of self ( **1st Commandment) **. Intentional murder and scandal (5th Commandment) . Suicide, being contrary to the love for God, is to lose or reject the Divine gifts of Faith, Hope and Love and fall into the sin of despair. If we reject our faith then who or what do we have faith in? Is it ourselves? Does not Satan relish in getting his hands on those who despair? He does because he knows they are no longer listening to sound teaching. Yes, the devil IS in the details.

"But Fr. Rolheiser says they must be sick because anyone with a healthy mind would never commit suicide. Well, neither would people subject themselves to excessive alcohol consumption and drug abuse, commit murder, abortion, rape, etc. Yet they do. Are they not personally responsible? What he’s ultimately advocating no personal responsibility when it comes to suicide.

"Fr. Rolheiser: “…in almost every case that person was not full of pride…”

“We always love and pray for those who succumb to this evil. We can’t judge them or their eternal salvation. But suicide, like any other murder, abandons God and makes yourself “god”. This is the unhealthy pride (one of the seven **deadly sins, **you know), that makes YOU final arbiter of right and wrong, echoing the original disobedience of Adam and Eve (”…you will not die…your eyes shall be opened: and you shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil." Gen 3:5).

"Here is TRUE pastoral care, CCC 2283: "We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known only to him alone, God can provide salutary repentance (If suicide is not a sin, why would God provide “salutary repentance”?) The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives." There is great consolation in that statement and I wish my mother had known that. It is the very reason why my family member is in our daily prayer intentions. Plus, if God can preserve Our Blessed Mother from Original Sin by the future merits of her Son’s Passion, Death and Resurrection, then our prayers for those who have committed suicide surely have merit as well. But do not think for a minute the suicide victim is without culpability, which must be expiated by that “salutary repentance”.

Am I splitting hairs? No. Satan is alive and well and more than willing to “suggest” that we despair. Fr. Rolheiser doesn’t even mention the Evil One and treats this only as an illness. Such hubris!
 
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