Maybe the difference is accept to the authority of the Church and debate from within, rather than refuting the Authority of the Church and criticizing from without.
Br. JR.Part of your statement is correct. The mass celebrated by any suspended priest is illegal. As such, it should be avoided. As kindly as the SSPX priests are, unfortunately, their legal status is the same as that of a priest who is suspended for some other moral or legal fault. A suspension is a suspension. It means that the priest loses the right to celebrate mass for the public. The public who attends his mass is encouraging the disobedience, even though it may not be the intention of the man in the pew.
The Church has said that attending mass at an SSPX chapel to fulfill one’s Sunday obligation is permissible, but discouraged. This has not been retracted. In essence, it is applied to those who need the EF and don’t have one available to them.
Part of your statement is incorrect. Divine Liturgy (mass) celebrated by the Eastern Othodox is valid and licit. There is nothing illegal about it. The Catholic Church has no authority to suspend Orthodox priests. That can only be done by the Orthodox hierarchy.
Suspension is a canonical act. There are three codes of Canon Law.
The third code of Canon Law, for the Orthodox Churches, is written and promulgated by them, not by us. None of our Codes of Canon Law apply to them, to Protestants, Muslims or Jews. They apply only to us. When our code says that we cannot receive Communion at Divine Liturgy in an Eastern Orthodox Church, unless certain requirements are met, the law is speaking to Catholics, not to the Orthodox. It’s not telling the Orthodox that they can’t offer Holy Communion to Catholics. It’s telling Catholics that we can’t go to Holy Communion at an Orthodox Divine Liturgy unless we have permission to do so. As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, the Orthodox priests can do whatever their hierarchy allows them to do.
- Canon Law for the Latin Church
- Canon Law for the Oriental Churches (Eastern Catholics)
- Canon Law for the Orthodox Churches
The case with the SSPX priests is different. As long as they profess to be Roman Catholic, they are bound by Canon Law for the Latin Church. Our code of law explicitly says that a suspended priest may not celebrate the sacraments, except in a life and death situation.
This has gotten very tricky for many of the SSPX priests, because on the one hand, the Society invokes Canon Law to defend itself in certain situations and on the other hand, it rejects some canons or appeals to the Code of 1917, which is not in effect.
This proved so problematic for some of the SSPX priests that they left the Society after the excommunication and suspension. That’s how the FSSP came into existence. The FSSP will tell you that it is very difficult to live inside the law in some instances and outside the law in other instances. That’s why they choose to join the FSSP rather than the SSPX.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
No matter how much folks would like to make it seem otherwise, the SSPX situation as of December 2011 is much too complex to boil down to individual quotes from canons and speeches.I don’t know about covert. You don’t have to say that you’re suspended. If they follow Canon Law, the only thing that the person has to prove is that he’s a Catholic priest. In some cases, even an Orthodox priest may ask to celebrate, because they are validly ordained priests. I believe that there is a chapel that accommodates the Divine Liturgy for the benefit of the Eastern Catholics. Not working there, I’m not sure how one goes about getting permission.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Why would the SSPX decline this type of invitation, or any other invitation to celebrate the Holy Mass with our Holy Father? Wouldn’t such an invitation be considered a real privilege to attend and con-celebrate?And yes it is true the SSPX is typically not invited to concelebrate on World Youth Day but I expect that might be an invitation they would politely decline.
From the little you know about the SSPX, I have a feeling you can figure it out.
I doubt if they would decline if the Pope invited them to assist (is that the right term?) him at a Solemn High Mass in the EF.And yes it is true the SSPX is typically not invited to concelebrate on World Youth Day but I expect that might be an invitation they would politely decline.
Really? The SSPX does not reject the Council?
Certainly not, since one does not concelebrate in the EF, unless it is an ordination Mass.I doubt if they would decline if the Pope invited them to assist (is that the right term?) him at a Solemn High Mass in the EF.
Believe it or not, no. I go to an FSSP parish because it’s much closer. That is an oddity among those who identify with the SSPX, I know. I guess I’m about where Michael Matt (Editor of the Remnant Newspaper) is on the spectrum. I most certainly do not believe in “SSPX or nothing.” But enough about me.
I will address this briefly, since it is a little outside the subject of the thread.
I understand.
In what way? Do you attend their parishes?
The points are not open for debate. The Church does not operate the same way that we do on these fora. When the Church says “discuss” or “dialogue” it means that you must do so following her rules and with her goals in mind. This is not just for the SSPX. She does this for every group. When Jesuits, Franciscans, Dominicans, etc are invited to “discuss” something that is problematic, we are given a list of questions that we must answer. The Vatican allows you to submit a list of questions that you want answered. The Vatican chooses the ones it wants to answer and ignores the rest. They also give you the conclusion that they want you to reach. The discussion is very guided. They tell you up front, “We want to discuss X with you, because we want you to understand what we mean and what we want.”
They are in schism, but are not schismatic. The Catholic Churches (all 23) have lifted all of the excommunications and anathemas against all of the Orthodox Churches. We recognize their right to have their own Code of Law and their right to govern themselves. Therefore, when one of their patriarchs authorizes their priests to celebrate the sacraments, these celebrations are both valid and legal. In the late 60s or early 70s the Catholic Church retracted her authority over the Orthodox Churches. In other words, she no longer claims authority over them, but accepts them as Sister Churches. The Holy See has even offered to modify the role of the papacy in order to bring them into full communion with their Eastern Catholic brethren and retain their autonomy. We have great respect for them.
I believe that you’re making more of this that is meant to be. The Canon is quite clear. Any priest who is validly ordained, even an Orthodox priest, can ask to celebrate a private mass in any Catholic Church around the world and cannot be turned down. The Canon only addresses the issue of validity, not legality. The reason is very simple. One does not need faculties to celebrate mass. One needs faculties to preach, absolve and witness marriages. In the case of the SSPX, they are illegally ordained. Therefore, they are suspended. This makes their celebration of the mass illegal. But it has no effect on the sacrament. Whereas in the case of Reconciliation and Marriage, one needs faculties and without them, the sacrament is null and void.
It’s actually very logical. The Holy Fathers realized that the separation took place almost 1,000 years ago. The people born into the Orthodox Churches have never had an affiliation with the Church of Rome. To claim authority over a Church that does not even understand you, because you’re foreign to them is really a pretense. It’s never going to happen. You’re never going to have authority over them. It builds false hope on the part of Roman Catholics. It’s ignored by Orthdodox Christians and it puts Eastern Catholics in a tight spot.
Me too.
That is really upsetting. But that’s another topic.