A strange question about devotion to the Saints?

[braeden_mackay]

Hi everyone!

I had a question regarding a certain devotion to the saints. A book i was recently about a certain saint mentioned something that i cant quite understand and was hoping that someone could help clarify it. After a devotee of this Saint obtained a great favor, he said to her “Oh glorious Saint! I desire for no earthly union but for you to be my sister and my spouse”. What do you think he meant by this? Is it appropriate to ask a saint this kind of question? The book said she said yes to him.

I know this question is odd, but it has been in my head for quite a while. I was thinking that the Saint would have been the spouse of Christ and no one else. I think the quote is beautiful but is it inappropriate for me to ask a saint something like this?

 

[bcuster]

This seems strange to me, too. Sometimes I wonder if the confusion arises from an imperfect translation of a text. I also think that the spiritual climate of the times may explain these instances. For example, in reading The Story of the Soul by St. Therese I sometimes think that she is too hard on herself with regard to the simple enjoyment of life. When I read about the Jansenism (extreme focus on the depravity of humanity) in France at the time, I understood that there might be an influence on St. Therese’s spirituality. So I recommend looking into the historical time period of the saint. The last thought I have has to do with the word “spouse.” In our over-sexualized world today, we sometimes miss the essential union of persons that a spousal relationship represents. In the spiritual realm, there may not be a term to express this kind of close spiritual relationship. Obviously, the saint in question, perceived that he was called by God to have a close relationship with this saint. He refers to her first as a sister before spouse. There are spiritual realities that cannot be expressed accurately in human words.

 

[erine]

No earthly union; ie, the saint didn’t want to marry someone in Holy Matrimony but rather have this saint spouse instead. The spouse of Christ factor is comparing apples and oranges. I think there are/were married saints who also were wed to Christ in a mystical marriage. Different rules in heaven since it is all a communion in the body of Christ. Seems no reason they couldn’t be a spouse of Christ and also have a “saint spouse.”.

Which saints are this story about, if I may ask?

 

[Dorothy]

This seems strange to me, too. Sometimes I wonder if the confusion arises from an imperfect translation of a text. I also think that the spiritual climate of the times may explain these instances. For example, in reading The Story of the Soul by St. Therese I sometimes think that she is too hard on herself with regard to the simple enjoyment of life. When I read about the Jansenism (extreme focus on the depravity of humanity) in France at the time, I understood that there might be an influence on St. Therese’s spirituality. So I recommend looking into the historical time period of the saint. The last thought I have has to do with the word “spouse.” In our over-sexualized world today, we sometimes miss the essential union of persons that a spousal relationship represents. In the spiritual realm, there may not be a term to express this kind of close spiritual relationship. Obviously, the saint in question, perceived that he was called by God to have a close relationship with this saint. He refers to her first as a sister before spouse. There are spiritual realities that cannot be expressed accurately in human words.

I agree with you that spiritual language may confuse those who haven’t heard much of it.

On a different note, I feel the need to respond to your assertion that St. Therese of Lisieux was too hard on herself, and your reference to Jansenism. Actually, (in spite of being a sensitive child due to losing her mother at age four, and then several of her sisters to Carmel) Therese was not influenced by Jansenism. She had a beautiful child-like confidence and trust in the Lord; thus we benefitted by learning about her “little way of love and self-surrender.”

She did suffer terribly during her illness, but her faith and love saw her through.

Okay…I just felt the need to share that.

 

[Starrsmother]

Hi everyone!

I had a question regarding a certain devotion to the saints. A book i was recently about a certain saint mentioned something that i cant quite understand and was hoping that someone could help clarify it. After a devotee of this Saint obtained a great favor, he said to her “Oh glorious Saint! I desire for no earthly union but for you to be my sister and my spouse”. What do you think he meant by this? Is it appropriate to ask a saint this kind of question? The book said she said yes to him.

I know this question is odd, but it has been in my head for quite a while. I was thinking that the Saint would have been the spouse of Christ and no one else. I think the quote is beautiful but is it inappropriate for me to ask a saint something like this?

I’m with you—I hate that kind of flowery, superlative language. But I bet the saint you refer to is from the middle ages as they seemed to major in that kind of stuff back then. Even some of Sister Faustina’s writings make my teeth ache they’re so sacharine that I don’t get into them much either. But, there’s one book out there–written by some middle ages nun who apparently thought she had visions of the early life of Mary and Jesus’ growing up years–I forget her name-- and it is the WORST along those lines. It has supposed quotes between Mary and angels or Mary and Joseph or St. Ann and Mary that are so long and wordy and flowery that I’d suspect if Mary ever really talked that way, sh’d never have had time to change Jesus’ little diaper!

 

[Origen52]

I’m with you—I hate that kind of flowery, superlative language. But I bet the saint you refer to is from the middle ages as they seemed to major in that kind of stuff back then. Even some of Sister Faustina’s writings make my teeth ache they’re so sacharine that I don’t get into them much either. But, there’s one book out there–written by some middle ages nun who apparently thought she had visions of the early life of Mary and Jesus’ growing up years–I forget her name-- and it is the WORST along those lines. It has supposed quotes between Mary and angels or Mary and Joseph or St. Ann and Mary that are so long and wordy and flowery that I’d suspect if Mary ever really talked that way, sh’d never have had time to change Jesus’ little diaper!

If anyone ever questions why the apocryphal gospels were rejected, a quick reading will answer their question. Jesus turns clay birds real, he kills and resurrects a playmate, palm trees bow for Mary and Joseph all the way to Egypt, and a lot more i am trying to block out. A lot of the flamboyant devotional texts of the medieval period are derived from the apocryphals. I try to stick to the gospels, the extensive collection of pontifical writings contained in the Vatican site, biblical commentaries and the theological writings of Pope Benedict. There is enough there to keep me occupied for a very long time.

 

[Starrsmother]

If anyone ever questions why the apocryphal gospels were rejected, a quick reading will answer their question. Jesus turns clay birds real, he kills and resurrects a playmate, palm trees bow for Mary and Joseph all the way to Egypt, and a lot more i am trying to block out. A lot of the flamboyant devotional texts of the medieval period are derived from the apocryphals. I try to stick to the gospels, the extensive collection of pontifical writings contained in the Vatican site, biblical commentaries and the theological writings of Pope Benedict. There is enough there to keep me occupied for a very long time.

Palm trees bowing–all the way to Egypt huh? I’m so glad I missed that one! Perhaps there was a hurricane in progress and it was just left out of the gospels? It almost shakes your faith! LOL:thumbsup:

 

[braeden_mackay]

Thank you everyone for all your responses! I also think that such a saying could go misunderstood in todays world. It is also just too flowery and strange.

The Saint that was asked the question was Saint Catharine of Siena and the man who asked her the question was left unnamed in the book. Since she was mystically married to Christ I was confused as to how a question like this could be asked. Thanks for all your help!

 

[Origen52]

Thank you everyone for all your responses! I also think that such a saying could go misunderstood in todays world. It is also just too flowery and strange.

The Saint that was asked the question was Saint Catharine of Siena and the man who asked her the question was left unnamed in the book. Since she was mystically married to Christ I was confused as to how a question like this could be asked. Thanks for all your help!

An interesting book about saint Catherine is called “saint Catherine of Siena” and was written by Sigrid Undset, who won the Nobel prize for literature in 1928. It might give you a better perspective on this time period.

 

[Dorothy]

An interesting book about saint Catherine is called “saint Catherine of Siena” and was written by Sigrid Undset, who won the Nobel prize for literature in 1928. It might give you a better perspective on this time period.

That is a great book on St. Catherine of Siena!