A stumbling block to my returning to Rome

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If you were baptized in the Catholic Church as a child, that baptism is valid as long as it was performed using the Trinitarian formula (“In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost/Spirit.” Depends on when you were baptized as to whether “Holy Ghost” or “Holy Spirit” was used.)

Why did you feel the need to be baptized again when the Catholic Church offers a choice of full immersion or sprinkling?

“I left Catholicism for many reasons, most notably though it lacked the mysticism and traditions of theosis and hesychasm that i had found in the East.”

Again, I ask, “Why do you need mysticism?” You fault the Catholic Church for lacking the mysticismand traditions of theosis and hesychasm that you found in the East.

You say you need to experience God. Yet you left the Catholic Church where He is found and experienced daily by Latin Rite Catholics throughout the world. If you return to the Latin Rite Catholic Church, what makes you think you will experience Him now when you supposedly didn’t experience Him before? What makes you think that the reasons you left the Catholic Church aren’t still there?

You can’t keep going back and forth as your mood changes. Being an Orthodox Christian one day and a Latin Rite Catholic the next. You need to make a decision and stick to it.
 
I’m sorry you’re not happy with the answers given. For me as a cradle Catholic, I have no desire to get spiritual guidance. I pray the Our Father and the Hail Mary and prayers of intention, but I keep it really simple. I don’t think people need fancy prayers to get to heaven, just a desire to please God and to repent when you haven’t. My only suggestion is to put your thoughts and efforts into helping others instead of looking for mysterious things. I’m perhaps too pragmatic for you, but that’s my suggestion.
 
NJC89 said:
It seems as if the only suggestions anyone can make is “become Byzantine Catholic” when i have stated numerous times that i WANT to be in the Latin Rite and have found a Latin Rite, Latin Mass parish that i could be join. I don’t know how much more clearer i can make this?
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Well, all I can suggest is that you avoid thinking about what you WANT to do and think more about what you OUGHT to do. Your life is not about you, after all. Your spriritual life does not revolve around you. It seems as if you ought to look at what direction you need to do to serve God and avoid as much as possible getting wound up in what are, in the light of the width and breadth and depth and height and centuries and times and places of the Body of Christ and the truth that we are in this vale of tears for but an instant compared to eternity, accidents and eccentricities.
 
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NJC89 said:
My question’s relate to the spiritual life, and lack of a spiritual father in the Catholic church, whether Eastern or Western.
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Actually, that’s fairly common for Eastern Catholic, though not a majority. It is known, but uncommon, for RC.

hawk
 
You can have a spiritual director, someone who may or may not be your confessor, who gives you spiritual guidance, as Catholic. Ask a priest about it.
 
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There was a prayer book or instruction book in my childhood which said “My child, you do not need to know much in order to love me”. My question is: are all these mysticism, hesychasm, ethno-phyletism and other isms neccessary for you to love God and worship Him, Some left the Catholic Church because of the “dull” service, not much to commend the choir. Some left other denominations where the choir and music are great but not much substance to the service, to join the Catholic Church. So the fundamental question you have to ask yourself is: which is more important to you, the substance of the service/soundness of theology or is it the “feeling” of belonging and other experiences.
 
You may want to check out the Carmelites. They concentrate on contemplative prayer. Obviously you can either look at priesthood or lay ministry.
 
Hi, welcome back 😃

I don’t know how things are in Australia, but here in the US Western Catholic church, we have spiritual directors, who can be hard to find… We also don’t: lean so much towards a one-on-one relationship for our spiritual lives, our having a SD seems to be less intense than what you describe with your Starets, if I have the right word.

We have lots of paths towards holiness, I am learning a lot of developing a lot through Ignatian spirituality.

You seem to have a great desire for God. I think that doing something different can be kind of scary, but that if you persevere, good things will come of it.

One idea I have in my mind comes from Pope John Paul 2, who said that the East and the West are like two lungs, each necessary but each themselves, and the Church as a whole would be less without either one.

As a result of that, I have a sort of personal idea that those who have groups which have left the Church are also like parts of the Body, but sort of missing. We see Protestant groups with great evangelizing zeal: we really need that! We see the Orthodox with their great mysticism: we need that too! So I see the entry of people like you as a move from God to bring together elements.

I have also been thinking about the fact that sometimes doing the right things brings a lot of tension and lack of control. If I tell my friend that an act she is contemplating is a mortal sin, will she get mad at me and stop being friends with me? That can be hard to face. I feel like you are hanging from one branch and you’ve grabbed with one hand the other branch but are nervous about letting go of the branch you reached out from.
 
NJC89 said:
I don’t need “mysticism” i need to experience God and be obedient to His will. The Orthodox Church provides a path toward that end, the Catholic Church as far as i can see, does not.
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I confess to being puzzled by this statement.
How does the Catholic Church not provide a path to being obedient to a God or to experience Him? Especially when we have the Eucharist?
We have spiritual directors in RC.
If this is because you are very attached to your current spiritual director, remember that he can only point you towards God, not experience Him for you.
Are you trying to achieve or maintain a particular religious “feeling”? Please be very careful with that. Feelings come and go, but God remains the same.
 
Thank you Annie, i think you are the first to truly understand my dilemma. I have actually had an epiphany, there is a traditional, Latin mass Benedictine Monastery being founded in Tasmania, Australia… Australia’s version of Clear Creek Abbey you could say. The Abbot, originally from the U.S, spent a few decades at a French Benedictine Monastery before coming to Australia to found his own. I have contacted him previously about coming to visit the Monastery, which i may still do, but could also speak to him about becoming my spiritual director.

But yes, you are right, Elders (Staretz in Russian, Gerdona in Greek) are very important in Orthodox life. We all take one on at Baptism, and they become our guides in the spiritual life. It’s a very intimate relationship.

I also think you correctly describe my fears… i do feel as though my foundations have been rocked. For years i have been 100%, radically committed to the Orthodox church. I have helped many young people come to the Orthodox church. Now i myself am having doubts? My last conversation with my Geronda, when i told him i had to spend some time away from the Monastery to consider my future, felt like my spiritual unity with him and the Monastery was lost, and i feel exposed. I do feel like i am dearly clinging on to both branches, and one is slipping away.

I feel as though there is a spiritual lesson in all this, but one that perhaps i’ll only learn in hindsight.
 
If you read some of the biographies of Eastern Orthodox Saints, you would understand my meaning. Read about the life of St Paisios, or St Silouan. The goal of the Orthodox life is not to talk or theologise ABOUT God, but to be in direct Communion with Him. This is a lofty calling no doubt, and difficult to achieve, but it is not impossible, as many modern Eastern Orthodox prove.
 
NJC89 said:
The goal of the Orthodox life is not to talk or theologise ABOUT God, but to be in direct Communion with Him.
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Catholics have the same goal, although it’s usually only pursued seriously by those who choose to dedicate themselves to the devout life and perhaps more specifically to the contemplative life. Theology is supposed to be a way of getting closer to God or figuring out ways to bring other people closer. It is not an end in itself while God sits on some distant mountain.

I don’t get up every day with the thought of spending my day talking or theologizing about God. I think how I can better serve Him and be closer to Him.
 
NJC89 said:
i do feel as though my foundations have been rocked. For years i have been 100%, radically committed to the Orthodox church. I have helped many young people come to the Orthodox church. Now i myself am having doubts?
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The Catholic and Orthodox are not so much separate churches as a “house divided” (with apologies to A.Lincoln).

Until the prelates pull their heads out of there collective [ok, I’m not finishing this thought], the faithful still have to work the way through the mess the Sin of Division has created. Recognizing that we are not two but one is the first step . . .

I hope this helps your crisis.

hawk
 
NJC89 said:
The point is that i miss Roman Liturgy, latin, and Catholic high culture. But i don’t miss the lack of well developed spiritual life.
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There are a few Roman Liturgy Churches in union with the Eastern Orthodox Church. A member there would remain Eastern Orthodox but attend a Roman rite Mass.


Orthodox Christmas Liturgy in Saint George’s Cathedral, 1910 Falls Street, Niagara Falls, New York.

 
I appreciate your desire to continue to grow spiritually as has been your privilege in your previous church. The deep formation in obedience is something we in the RCC don’t often crave. I have long time friend who personally considers it an absolutely necessity.

My suggestion is to ask advice from the priest in your present parish, on how to go about finding a suitable spiritual director. Perhaps he might refer you to the diocese (bishop) who would have knowledge about resources in your area.

I pray for you that this longing will be met, though it may take some searching.
 
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I agree with hawk. The division is very hurtful for the faithful. I have been unable to celebrate Easter with one part of my family for years because of the division with the orthodox. We cannot be god parents for their children. When one takes their faith very seriously, living with these divisions is painful and cuts a multitude of little ways in everyday life. I am encouraged that both sides seem to want to agree on a common date for Easter, but that does not resolve the division.
 
NJC89 said:
The goal of the Orthodox life is not to talk or theologise ABOUT God, but to be in direct Communion with Him. This is a lofty calling no doubt, and difficult to achieve, but it is not impossible, as many modern Eastern Orthodox prove.
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Read the practice of the presence of God by Brother Lawrence, an RC monk, who achieved just that.
 
Greetings,

Are there any Byzantine Catholic Churches in your area? Ukrainian or Melkite?

ZP
 
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