A suggestion for this forum

[Peter_J]

I wish it was. I had a closer look. That is what it claims to be; but it is anything but. Everybody is sick out there. That is the kind of stuff that Al-Qaida is made of. I flipped through the first 10 pages of the forum. I found four threads about Mormonism, and 27 about the Catholicism! I suggest you go and read them, and your eyes will be opened.

zerinus

Just to make sure we’re talking about the same “Landover Baptist” website, I’ll send you a PM with the web-address of the one I went to. I fairly certain it’s a site mocking conservative Baptists.

 

[RC_Matt]

Just to make sure we’re talking about the same “Landover Baptist” website, I’ll send you a PM with the web-address of the one I went to. I fairly certain it’s a site mocking conservative Baptists.

Actually, I think you and Zerinus are both correct. The site is obviously intended to be satirical, but it has attracted posters who spew their own crass bigoted garbage – it’s pretty bizarre and many of those people obviously have some pretty serious psychological issues.

 

[Peter_J]

Actually, I think you and Zerinus are both correct. The site is obviously intended to be satirical, but it has attracted posters who spew their own crass bigoted garbage – it’s pretty bizarre and many of those people obviously have some pretty serious psychological issues.

Wow, interesting twist. (They should use that in one of those Coke with lime commercials, or something.)

 

[Peter_J]

Hold on a sec!

I just took a look at the website that zerinus PM’ed to me, and it’s actually not the same “Landover Baptist Church” website I’ve been talking about. (Deceptively similar though.) One is .net and one is .org

 

[RC_Matt]

Hold on a sec!

I just took a look at the website that zerinus PM’ed to me, and it’s actually not the same “Landover Baptist Church” website I’ve been talking about. (Deceptively similar though.) One is .net and one is .org

Nah, it’s the same site; just a different page format.

 

[Peter_J]

Nah, it’s the same site; just a different page format.

Oh yes, I see. The one I was looking at is the home page, whereas zerinus was looking at the forum.

I think the homepage is a little more obvious in its satire/mockery. When i was looking at the forum (not realizing it was the same site), I eventually concluded it was phony, but not right away.

 

[Lilyflower]

LOL, good luck!

Be careful though, you’ll get banned in a heartbeat if you don’t tread very lightly.

Thanks

Havn’t got time right now but will pursue it when I do.

Blessings and peace

 

[Peter_J]

Well, to try to get back to the original topic (or closer to it at least) …

I was just thinking about an analogy that might help: suppose I’m the pastor of a Roman Catholic parish, and every Tuesday I lead a discussion group about the differences and similarities between Catholicism and various Protestant denominations; and suppose further that every Wednesday I teach a class about Catholicism for Protestants who are thinking about converting or who just want to learn about Catholicism.

Needless to say, I want to encourage people to join both groups, right? But let’s say a Protestant comes up to me and tells me he wants to join one of the groups, but hasn’t decided which one. What would I say to him? Unless I’m unusually ecumenical-minded, I’m going to prefer that he join the class on -]Tuesday/-] Wednesday, right?

I think it’s basically the same thing here: Catholics on CAF (posters and mods alike) do want Protestants here, but they’d prefer participation on sub-forums like “Apologetics” and “Eastern Catholicism”, i.e. sub-forums where the focus is on learning about Catholicism, rather than the “Non-Catholic Religions” forum where the focus is on “equal time” and what-not.

Hence, lumping various “Non-Catholic religions” together under the “Non-Catholic Religions” forum may serve a useful function, insofar as it nudges Orthodox and Protestant posters in the direction of those other forums.

(Needless to say, this is really nothing like Protestant forums that use headlines like “False Religions and Cults: Catholics, Wiccans, Lutherans, Satanists, Mormons”. Although I think that particular quote came from the phony website, but you get what I mean.)

In my opinion the first class could be absorbed into the second.

Rawb,

I’m curious, then, whether you also think it is mistake to have any sort of equal-time, compare-and-contrast sub-forum here? More to the point, do you think it would be a good idea to completely consolidate the “Non-Catholic Religions Forum” into other forums like “Apologetics”?

Here’s the thing: Wouldn’t that be (to borrow a phrase from advertising) a kind of bait-and-switch? I mean drawing posters in by having a compare-and-contrast type forum, where Orthodox and Protestants (and non-Christians for that matter) are as welcome to their views as are Roman Catholics … but then after a while saying “Sorry, this forum now falls under the Apologetics section. Only the Catholic point of view can be posted.”

Don’t you think that sort of bait-and-switch would be a bit unethical?

 

[Rawb]

I’m curious, then, whether you also think it is mistake to have any sort of equal-time, compare-and-contrast sub-forum here? More to the point, do you think it would be a good idea to completely consolidate the “Non-Catholic Religions Forum” into other forums like “Apologetics”?

Non-Catholic Religions already acts as a subforum for the Apologetics Forum (almost everything does really, since it is an apologetics site). People do not stop here at comparing and contrasting; they then go on to defend their beliefs, which is the definition of apologetics.

I think the Non-Catholic Religions forum serves as overflow for the Apologetics forum itself. After all, if I was honestly trying to learn about a non-Catholic Religion, I wouldn’t be doing it on a Catholic site, would I? Not if I was inerested only in that religion independantly of any other outside view of said religion.

This is why I also said to absorb the classes; Why should a Catholic be teaching on Baptist beliefs (for example)? That position rightly belongs to Baptists who more fully understand baptist theology. A Catholic who wants to know about Baptists should speak with a Baptist, especially since there is no offical Baptist doctrine, and anyone who calls themself ‘Baptist’ may or may not have just pulled their beliefs from thin air (See Westboro Baptist for example), thus making it necessary for said Catholic to ask specifically that Baptist.

That’s my main reason for saying that. I don’t think any religion should teach others about a different religion. They’re bound to misunderstand things.

but then after a while saying “Sorry, this forum now falls under the Apologetics section. Only the Catholic point of view can be posted.”

But the Catholic point of view is not the only POV presented in the Apologetics forum. Others present their views, and debate ensues. That’s why the threads are more than two posts long. If it was just about “What is the Catholic position on _______” one post could answer it.

I mean drawing posters in by having a compare-and-contrast type forum, where Orthodox and Protestants (and non-Christians for that matter) are as welcome to their views as are Catholics…

Sorry I doctored your quote slightly, so as not to alienate my Eastern Brothers and Sisters.

I’ve always seen the main purpose of this subforum as to teach Catholics about non-Catholic religions. It is not a place for Non-Catholic religions to spread their views. Converting Catholics is specifically forbidden by the TOS.

 

[Peter_J]

This is why I also said to absorb the classes; Why should a Catholic be teaching on Baptist beliefs (for example)? That position rightly belongs to Baptists who more fully understand baptist theology. A Catholic who wants to know about Baptists should speak with a Baptist, especially since there is no offical Baptist doctrine, and anyone who calls themself ‘Baptist’ may or may not have just pulled their beliefs from thin air (See Westboro Baptist for example), thus making it necessary for said Catholic to ask specifically that Baptist.

That’s my main reason for saying that. I don’t think any religion should teach others about a different religion. They’re bound to misunderstand things.

Actually, if you look back at the story I told, the pastor isn’t teaching about Baptists or any other Protestants. He’s teaching a class on Catholicism (the “Wednesday class”) and he is also leading a discussion group on the differences and similarities between Catholicism and various Protestant denominations (the “Tuesday discussion group”).

 

[Peter_J]

I’ve always seen the main purpose of this subforum as to teach Catholics about non-Catholic religions. It is not a place for Non-Catholic religions to spread their views. Converting Catholics is specifically forbidden by the TOS.

I’m not talking about non-Catholics using this forum to proselytize. (That’s not allowed, obviously.) I’m talking about the fact that Orthodox and Protestants are welcome to share their views. That’s why I describe this the “Non-Catholic Religions” forum as a “compare and contrast” or “equal time” forum. (Although technically, I guess I shouldn’t use the term “equal time” since that would indicate a precisely regimented debate format. So please understand that I mean “equal time” in a more colloquial sense.)

I think you’ll understand better what I mean if you read the following post from the thread “What is the Catholic response to the Orthodox view of Heaven and Hell?” on the “Eastern Catholicism” forum:

I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion that this entire thread ought to be moved to a different forum, such as “Non-Catholic Religions”.

Note that she says “Non-Catholic religions would be appropriate for threads asking for an Orthodox response” – she does not say “Threads asking an Orthodox response doesn’t belong on CAF at all. Go find an Orthodox website, if you’re looking for a thread like that.” (As a matter of fact, there was a What is the Orthodox response to the Catholic view of Heaven and Hell? thread shortly thereafter. It probably won’t surprise you to learn that it was on the “Non-Catholic Religions” forum.)

 

[Rawb]

Actually, if you look back at the story I told, the pastor isn’t teaching about Baptists or any other Protestants. He’s teaching a class on Catholicism (the “Wednesday class”) and he is also leading a discussion group on the differences and similarities between Catholicism and various Protestant denominations (the “Tuesday discussion group”).

A class and a discussion group are the same thing to me. As such, the leader of said discussion group would be the driving force behind the teachings on the protestant denominations they were discussing. Maybe I’m misunderstanding you somewhere in here.

I’m talking about the fact that Orthodox and Protestants are welcome to share their views.

Yes. Y’all teach Catholics why you believe the way you do.

Maybe this would help; I see the non-Catholics religion forum as a way for Catholics to learn why a protestant believes something, or to find out what they believe, so that they can then learn why it is wrong (or discover that the protestant has something right).

If that’s the case then it makes sense for all non-Catholic religions to be in one subforum. The important part is that they’re non-Catholic, not how close to Catholicism they are.

If this were a place where we were just saying “I believe this” and responding “oh, that’s interesting, I believe in such and such” then maybe your idea would make more sense to me. That’s not the point, however, as I see it.

 

[Peter_J]

Yes. Y’all teach Catholics why you believe the way you do.

You do know that the Y’ in Y’all is short for You, right?

 

[Corki]

I’m not sure what they mean by non-catholic. I have come to mean they really mean non-roman catholic. Many other churches are catholic, in that they are apostolic in nature and universal.

They may indeed as individuals be catholic but there is only one Catholic Church.

Yes. The “Non-Catholic” in the name of this forum should be understood to mean “Non-RC”.

But we wouldn’t want to use that term here. The Catholic Church does not refer to herself as Roman Catholic. That is a term used by non-Catholics, originally as a slur.

After all, various non-RC Christians complain about the name “Non-Catholic Religions Forum” (Orthodox and Old Catholics complain about the implication that they aren’t “Catholic”, some Protestants complain about the implication they belong to a different “religion”, and they pretty much all complain about the way they are lumped together with non-Christians) but they participate here nevertheless.

With respect, this is a Catholic forum. While we all want to remain respectful to those who are non-Catholic, the organization of the forum should be what ever works best from the Catholic viewpoint. I doubt many Catholics see much difference in dialoging with JWs vs Baptists. At least not more difference than dialoging with Baptists vs. Lutherans. There are different approaches, sure, but the emphasis is on how Catholics relate to the different religions/denominations rather than how they relate to each other.

 

[Peter_J]

Yes. Y’all teach Catholics why you believe the way you do.

Do you think I’m ‘not a real Catholic’ because I favor “equal-time” discussion … or what exactly?

 

[zerinus]

I’m talking about the fact that Orthodox and Protestants are welcome to share their views. That’s why I describe this the “Non-Catholic Religions” forum as a “compare and contrast” or “equal time” forum.

It is also an attack and defend forum. Speaking for myself, a lot of people who post here do so to attack Mormonism, or to spread falsehood and disinformation about it. My purpose in posting here is partly to provide correct information for those who want to know it (and there are some, although they may come and go); and partly to counter the effect of the attackers who want to spread falsehood about it.

In reality there are as many reasons why people post here as there are people, and you cannot categorize them into a few broad categories.

zerinus

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Given the fact that many of us outside the Catholic Church do not consider it to be a different religion (or Gospel) - and that (as I understand it) the Catholic Church considers us to be “separated brethren” - may I suggest that you consider establishing a forum for discussion of other Christian churches?

I don’t think that you put us in the same category with Mormonism or the Jehovah’s Witnesses, so why put us in the same forum?

It’s not a bad idea, but I think it’s a time and money argument. Also, I think it causes friction because some people will say - e.g. Hey, I’m a ______ and we’re christian too, why are we not included with the non-C christian group.

I participated at another “christian” forum that listed the Catholic Church under “other religions” and did not include it in the “other Christian denominations” … because the web-hoster believed Catholics were not christians. OK. He’s entitled to believe that, but it sure did cause some hurt feelings. Divisions along those lines here could cause the same problem. It is easier just to draw the line at Catholic versus those who are not Catholic - IMHO.

Peace,
-Robert

 

[zerinus]

It’s not a bad idea, but I think it’s a time and money argument. Also, I think it causes friction because some people will say - e.g. Hey, I’m a ______ and we’re christian too, why are we not included with the non-C christian group.

I participated at another “christian” forum that listed the Catholic Church under “other religions” and did not include it in the “other Christian denominations” … because the web-hoster believed Catholics were not christians. OK. He’s entitled to believe that, but it sure did cause some hurt feelings. Divisions along those lines here could cause the same problem. It is easier just to draw the line at Catholic versus those who are not Catholic - IMHO.

Peace,
-Robert

You may have noticed that PastorVW has disappeared, ever since I asked him to explain to us more fully what religion he was.

zerinus

 

[Peter_J]

It is also an attack and defend forum.

In practice, yes it is.

 

[Peter_J]

Also, I think it causes friction because some people will say - e.g. Hey, I’m a ______ and we’re christian too, why are we not included with the non-C christian group.

Someone else here made a similar comment.

So do you think that CAF is more concerned about being courteous to Mormons, JWs, etc. than toward Orthodox and Protestants?

To me, that just doesn’t make sense.