A Tale of Two Eucharists

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jmcrae said:
Especially since you forgot that it was St. Anthony that you prayed to; not St. Christopher. 😉

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O my dog! You are right! How embarrassing. :o

Well, i still have forgotten more about Catholicism than most Evangelicals i know.

😛
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Yes, Pax, but the puzzling thing is that Jesus speaks of drinking this living water. My question, then, is this: In what way does a Catholic drink the Holy Spirit?

🤷

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/APG/114-22065~Living-Water-Posters.jpg
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Please note what scripture says in:

1 Cor 10:1-4
I want you to know, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same supernatural food and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

1 Cor 12:13-14
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body–Jews or Greeks, slaves or free–and all were made to **drink **of one Spirit. For the body does not consist of one member but of many.

Please note how the water, the drinking, the Spirit, Jesus, and baptism are all connected in both the Old and New Testaments.

Herein, lies the answer to drinking the living water. It is through baptism and the Holy Spirit. Thus we live in and are led by the Spirit. This is how we drink of the living water, and we are temples of the Holy Spirit who dwells within us. Once again, we see the external sign that points to the hidden reality.
 
jmcrae said:
… Not so; actually he was one of the “popular acclaim” saints that came about before we had strict regulation of who can be considered a Saint - it turns out that there were never any miracles reported about him, and at this late date, we don’t even know who he was - “Christopher” simply means “A Christian gentleman” or some such thing. Kind of like “St. Philomena” - God’s girlfriend. We don’t know who she was, either. There are zillions of Christophers and Philomenas in the Catacombs, so praying to “St. Christopher” and “St. Philomena” won’t do any actual harm - someone is answering, but we just don’t know who. …
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Thanks for the info, JM. It still leaves the question: Is the Eucharist sometimes the real flesh of Jesus, or usually just flesh in disguise?
 
Pax said:
Please note what scripture says in:

1 Cor 10:1-4
I want you to know, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same supernatural food and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

1 Cor 12:13-14
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body–Jews or Greeks, slaves or free–and all were made to **drink **of one Spirit. For the body does not consist of one member but of many.

Please note how the water, the drinking, the Spirit, Jesus, and baptism are all connected in both the Old and New Testaments.

Herein, lies the answer to drinking the living water. It is through baptism and the Holy Spirit. Thus we live in and are led by the Spirit. This is how we drink of the living water, and we are temples of the Holy Spirit who dwells within us. Once again, we see the external sign that points to the hidden reality.
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Ahhh, yes, i see now, Pax. Drinking living water means to live in and be led by the Holy Spirit.

👍

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/46/47/22594746.jpg
 
Yes, and more. It’s important to think about how we drink in the grace of God. He gives us his grace through the Spirit. We can drink it into our lives and make it part of us or we can reject it. The grace is real and the Spirit is real. Baptism and water are the signs of how this comes about. From there we continue to drink of the living water. We are either alive in the Spirit which is the living water, or we are dead in the flesh.

As members of the family of God, we receive sonship from the Father, we receive the son in the Eucharist, and the Spirit by grace. Our Trinitarian God makes Himself intimately connected to us. His relationship is the most powerful and intimate that we can experience.
 
Soc thinks: “Pax is either in thought deep, or asleep, or writing a really long response, or maybe detained. Patience, Soc, patience!”

 
Pax said:
Yes, and more. It’s important to think about how we drink in the grace of God. He gives us his grace through the Spirit. We can drink it into our lives and make it part of us or we can reject it. The grace is real and the Spirit is real. Baptism and water are the signs of how this comes about. From there we continue to drink of the living water. We are either alive in the Spirit which is the living water, or we are dead in the flesh.

As members of the family of God, we receive sonship from the Father, we receive the son in the Eucharist, and the Spirit by grace. Our Trinitarian God makes Himself intimately connected to us. His relationship is the most powerful and intimate that we can experience.
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So living water is a metaphor, then? For, we don’t literally drink the Holy Spirit, do we?
 
Water is the outward sign of the inner reality…that is why water baptism is not a metaphor.
 
Your words Pax were:

Herein, lies the answer to drinking the living water. It is through baptism and the Holy Spirit. Thus we live in and are led by the Spirit. This is how we drink of the living water, and we are temples of the Holy Spirit who dwells within us. Once again, we see the external sign that points to the hidden reality.

That is, drinking is a metaphor for living in and being led by the Holy Spirit. Is this what you meant, or do you want to revise your view?
 
It’s OK if you want to change your mind, Pax, but i think you were speaking the truth. We do not literally drink the Holy Spirit.
 
Is there anyone who disagrees with Pax? Does anyone think Jesus really did mean that we should literally drink the Holy Spirit?

🤷

10Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”
… 13Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

(John 4)
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Are you saying, Mary, that Jesus’ resurrected body is more like a ghost than a human? Rather than looking for the return of a God-man, should we be looking for the return of a God-ghost?

🤷

http://www.minnesotaghosts.com/resources/dvds/images/tv_06/ghosthunters.jpg
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No I am not saying that.
I don’t really know what a ghost is. Is it a disembodied soul that is lost between here and eternity? if that is the definition I am not saying that at all. I am saying that Christ in His Glorified Body has complete control over it and can cause it to be visible, tangible or can cause it to be viewed as if it is made of light, or can hide it completely accoding to his Will. Hw has the ability to change the accidental form of His body as I thought you were saying… That would mean you can’t explain it according to the way we experience reality.
 
MaryJohnZ said:
No I am not saying that.
I don’t really know what a ghost is. Is it a disembodied soul that is lost between here and eternity? if that is the definition I am not saying that at all. I am saying that Christ in His Glorified Body has complete control over it and can cause it to be visible, tangible or can cause it to be viewed as if it is made of light, or can hide it completely accoding to his Will. Hw has the ability to change the accidental form of His body as I thought you were saying… That would mean you can’t explain it according to the way we experience reality.
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Thanks for replying, Mary. Are you suggesting that Jesus makes His body an atomless body? or is your point that the atoms of Jesus’ body are actually present in the host, but undetectable?
 
well if you want to find the truth you have to do a little bit of searching for yourself…

I’m not going to just give you everything, sorry.
 
Question 19.

Did Jesus mean we should literally drink the Holy Spirit? or did He use the word drink as a metaphor for receiving the Holy Spirit?

13Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

(John 4)

37On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. 38Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him.” 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

(John 7)

http://www.psyonic.dsl.pipex.com/psy_logo_quest50.gif
 
jdungan7070 said:
well if you want to find the truth you have to do a little bit of searching for yourself…

I’m not going to just give you everything, sorry.
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Do you then disagree with the first Pope, JD?

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect …*(1 Peter 3:15)*Or are you saying you don’t have all the answers and are searching, just like me?
 
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