A thank you to all Non - Believers

[chazcheh]

I believe every one is on their own journey in life. In my faith journey I have had my ups and downs and looked to so may sources of knowledge, understanding, debates, reviews, spiritual direction, and the rest!

I found the turning point for me was actually the non-believers who turned me closer to God. Those on this website, friends, and other books I have read which explain why God doesn’t exist, lead me to believe that he actually does.

I just found it so interesting that the thing I thought would lead me to understand why I shouldn’t believe in God, lead me to believe in God, Jesus Christ and the catholic church.

From the bottom of my heart I honestly thank you.

 

[Partinobodycula]

You do realize that your post is condescending and insulting? Or perhaps you don’t.

 

[Al_Moritz]

You do realize that your post is condescending and insulting? Or perhaps you don’t.

Huh? Wow, you got a thin skin.

 

[Langdell]

You do realize that your post is condescending and insulting? Or perhaps you don’t.

I’m having trouble seeing how the OP is condescending and insulting.

 

[BB2]

I’m having trouble seeing how the OP is condescending and insulting.

It’s condescending because it amounts to schadenfreude. It gives the impression of “Haha, by listening to you non-believers I became a believer. And I thank you ever so much for that”.

Picture a Protestant coming here and saying something along the lines of “Thank you Catholics. Your traditions and extra-biblical teachings made me become a Protestant”. It’s not sincere, and no doubt the user who said it would get a swift suspension - perhaps even outright ban.

 

[Al_Moritz]

It’s condescending because it amounts to schadenfreude. It gives the impression of “Haha, by listening to you non-believers I became a believer. And I thank you ever so much for that”.

Picture a Protestant coming here and saying something along the lines of “Thank you Catholics. Your traditions and extra-biblical teachings made me become a Protestant”. It’s not sincere, and no doubt the user who said it would get a swift suspension - perhaps even outright ban.

Huh? This is starting to get ridiculous.

I see nothing wrong with thanking your opponent for challenging you to think things through more thoroughly. Naturalistic arguments lead me to think through my own theistic philosophy and faith more extensively as well, with a far more deepened faith as a result.

Having said that, I would probably never have started such a thread because it is not particularly indicative of good taste.

 

[MTKM]

It’s condescending because it amounts to schadenfreude. It gives the impression of “Haha, by listening to you non-believers I became a believer. And I thank you ever so much for that”.

Impression is the key word. Impressions are vague and subject to individual interpretation.

Picture a Protestant coming here and saying something along the lines of “Thank you Catholics. Your traditions and extra-biblical teachings made me become a Protestant”. It’s not sincere, and no doubt the user who said it would get a swift suspension - perhaps even outright ban.

I doubt that because many Catholics already understand the general view points of Protestants and why they protested against the Church. It would be nothing new to Catholics so we would not be offended by it.

 

[tbcrawford]

I believe every one is on their own journey in life. In my faith journey I have had my ups and downs and looked to so may sources of knowledge, understanding, debates, reviews, spiritual direction, and the rest!

I found the turning point for me was actually the non-believers who turned me closer to God. Those on this website, friends, and other books I have read which explain why God doesn’t exist, lead me to believe that he actually does.

I just found it so interesting that the thing I thought would lead me to understand why I shouldn’t believe in God, lead me to believe in God, Jesus Christ and the catholic church.

From the bottom of my heart I honestly thank you.

God bless you my friend that is wonderful.I understand totally what you mean.I am often inspired by non Christian and nonreligious believing people.

Gandhi once said " I like your Christ I do not like your Christians for they are so unlike your Christ."

It is good for us to be humbled by others.We can see the good in all people.

Happy Christmas to you

 

[Langdell]

It’s condescending because it amounts to schadenfreude. It gives the impression of “Haha, by listening to you non-believers I became a believer. And I thank you ever so much for that”.

Picture a Protestant coming here and saying something along the lines of “Thank you Catholics. Your traditions and extra-biblical teachings made me become a Protestant”. It’s not sincere, and no doubt the user who said it would get a swift suspension - perhaps even outright ban.

I think you’re reading too much into the OP. I’ve had some PM conversations with chazcheh, and I’ve never had the impression that he’s other than entirely sincere and straightforward. I really don’t think he’s trying to stick it to anyone.

 

[Partinobodycula]

I think you’re reading too much into the OP. I’ve had some PM conversations with chazcheh, and I’ve never had the impression that he’s other than entirely sincere and straightforward. I really don’t think he’s trying to stick it to anyone.

You may be correct as to chazcheh’s character, I cannot judge his intent. Any condescension may well have been unintentional.

If his meaning was truly innocent, then he should apologize for any misunderstanding.

For those who fail to understand the problem, it is like when a movie star accepts an award and then thanks all the “little people” who made the award possible. The star is being condescending because they are placing themselves in the position of superiority. The term “little people” carries a connotation of inferiority.

chazcheh is thanking all the “non-believers” who helped him to find the truth, as if being a believer is somehow superior to being a non-believer. Just as the term “little people” may not be intended as a derogatory term, the term “non-believer” may not have been intended as derogatory either, but it gives that impression.

The intent may not have been to be condescending, but the result was. So I thought it appropriate to point it out, especially if it was not chazcheh’s intent.

 

[tbcrawford]

I am afraid I think it is you Partinobodycula who should be apologising for taking things the wrong way.This is not the intention of the OP to upset anyone.It is a shame that you have chosen to take his post this way.I see no condescending on his part.

 

[Partinobodycula]

I am afraid I think it is you Partinobodycula who should be apologising for taking things the wrong way.This is not the intention of the OP to upset anyone.It is a shame that you have chosen to take his post this way.I see no condescending on his part.

I must say that this response seems extremely strange to me. If I am offended by something that the OP said, and then explain exactly why it is that I am offended, you somehow seem to think that I should apologize for mentioning that fact.

Am I not entitled to be offended? Or is it proper etiquette that I should keep my thoughts to myself, so as not to offend some precious Catholic member. You may not see any condescension in the OP, but I do. I see no reason to apologize for pointing it out.

FYI, as it clearly states in the heading, I am a solipsist, it is actually impossible to offend me. I merely pointed out the condescension because the OP may not have been aware of it, as it seems that many here are not.

Also in my opinion there now needs to be two apologies, one by you for attacking me unjustly, and one by the OP for any condescension. Although it may well have been unintentional.

 

[Langdell]

… Also in my opinion there now needs to be two apologies, one by you for attacking me unjustly, and one by the OP for any condescension. …

I really don’t see how what tbc wrote could be construed as an “attack.”

 

[oreoboy]

Well as long as no one is trying to convert me i’ll take that as a compliment

 

[Partinobodycula]

I really don’t see how what tbc wrote could be construed as an “attack.”

Your opinion is duly noted and appreciated, really.

If you can’t see how tbc’s response was an attack then I can accept that, it is after all a subjective term. Like I said in my previous post, it is impossible to offend me, but it is possible however, to fascinate me, as people often do. Usually they disappoint me, but every once in awhile they’ll do something inspirational. Unfortunately, it appears that this will not be one of those times.

If the OP or tbc could find it within themselves to apologize, I would actually find that quite inspirational, because it would go against all the norms of forum behaviour. People find it very difficult to say they’re sorry, especially on an impersonal forum such as this one. If they choose not to say that they’re sorry, then I can accept that, but I would much rather be inspired. I suppose that is asking too much though. After all, they’re only Catholics.

I’m really getting myself in trouble now ain’t I…ahhh that’s life.

 

[chazcheh]

You do realize that your post is condescending and insulting? Or perhaps you don’t.

Im extremely sorry if I insulted any one because that was the furthest thought from my mind. I feel that every one has their own journey in life and their own struggles and the one thing that I felt helped me through those struggles, in my journey, were the non believers, not the believers so much.

I put this up not to insult but to show that it may sometimes feel that you may be going down the wrong road, but really it is just the road that you were supposed to go down to get to where you wanted.

Again, if it came across as an insult I sincerely apologize.

 

[bmullins]

All people are entitled to opinions, that doesn’t make them accurate or appropriate. If I were to say I am thankful for all the people who taught me math, because after studying math I came to the conclusion that God exists, would I be making fun of math or the people who taught me about it?

In the same token the poster is saying specifically that he thanks those who challenged him for thinking for himself, because the very challenge of thinking objectively about God has led him to something that he finds worth so much more than anything else. That is not condescension, simply acknowledging their participation.

 

[Partinobodycula]

Again, if it came across as an insult I sincerely apologize.

I could just hug you. I was actually about to write an apology of my own when I checked your profile and it said that you were here responding, so I decided to wait, and I’m glad that I did.

I don’t know as I can speak for everyone, but I personally accept your apology with the utmost humility. You have indeed inspired me.

I too would like to apologize for questioning your intent, your heart was in the right place.

May we continue in peace.

 

[chazcheh]

I could just hug you. I was actually about to write an apology of my own when I checked your profile and it said that you were here responding, so I decided to wait, and I’m glad that I did.

I don’t know as I can speak for everyone, but I personally accept your apology with the utmost humility. You have indeed inspired me.

I too would like to apologize for questioning your intent, your heart was in the right place.

May we continue in peace.

Thank you

I would love that.

 

[tbcrawford]

You may be correct as to chazcheh’s character, I cannot judge his intent. Any condescension may well have been unintentional.

If his meaning was truly innocent, then he should apologize for any misunderstanding.

For those who fail to understand the problem, it is like when a movie star accepts an award and then thanks all the “little people” who made the award possible. The star is being condescending because they are placing themselves in the position of superiority. The term “little people” carries a connotation of inferiority.

chazcheh is thanking all the “non-believers” who helped him to find the truth, as if being a believer is somehow superior to being a non-believer. Just as the term “little people” may not be intended as a derogatory term, the term “non-believer” may not have been intended as derogatory either, but it gives that impression.

The intent may not have been to be condescending, but the result was. So I thought it appropriate to point it out, especially if it was not chazcheh’s intent.

In your post you said

"If his meaning was truly innocent, then he should apologize for any misunderstanding ".

I responded to you with my post that you should be the one to apologise for you accused him of something he had not done and misinterpreted his post yet you requested an apology from him. I felt this was unfair of you.

You say "I must say that this response seems extremely strange to me. " You find my response strange I am explaining as above my reason for my harmelss post.

On the one hand you say

“Am I not entitled to be offended?”

then further in the same post you say " it is actually impossible to offend me."

You then go on to insult me “so as not to offend some ‘precious’ Catholic member”

I have never heard of the term solipsist and just googled it “FYI, as it clearly states in the heading, I am a solipsist,”

It appears to me you are looking to antagonise people and offend people.
This is sad.

I dislike antagonism as it does not show the love of Christ in its action. I strive hard to display love to everyone even those who hurt me.

I apologise to you without reservation. I wish no antagonsism or ill will. I try to humble myself and rid myself of pride

I must say that this response seems extremely strange to me. If I am offended by something that the OP said, and then explain exactly why it is that I am offended, you somehow seem to think that I should apologize for mentioning that fact.

Am I not entitled to be offended? Or is it proper etiquette that I should keep my thoughts to myself, so as not to offend some precious Catholic member. You may not see any condescension in the OP, but I do. I see no reason to apologize for pointing it out.

FYI, as it clearly states in the heading, I am a solipsist, it is actually impossible to offend me. I merely pointed out the condescension because the OP may not have been aware of it, as it seems that many here are not.

Also in my opinion there now needs to be two apologies, one by you for attacking me unjustly, and one by the OP for any condescension. Although it may well have been unintentional.

Your opinion is duly noted and appreciated, really.

If you can’t see how tbc’s response was an attack then I can accept that, it is after all a subjective term. Like I said in my previous post, it is impossible to offend me, but it is possible however, to fascinate me, as people often do. Usually they disappoint me, but every once in awhile they’ll do something inspirational. Unfortunately, it appears that this will not be one of those times.

If the OP or tbc could find it within themselves to apologize, I would actually find that quite inspirational, because it would go against all the norms of forum behaviour. People find it very difficult to say they’re sorry, especially on an impersonal forum such as this one. If they choose not to say that they’re sorry, then I can accept that, but I would much rather be inspired. I suppose that is asking too much though. After all, they’re only Catholics.

I’m really getting myself in trouble now ain’t I…ahhh that’s life.

Im extremely sorry if I insulted any one because that was the furthest thought from my mind. I feel that every one has their own journey in life and their own struggles and the one thing that I felt helped me through those struggles, in my journey, were the non believers, not the believers so much.

I put this up not to insult but to show that it may sometimes feel that you may be going down the wrong road, but really it is just the road that you were supposed to go down to get to where you wanted.

Again, if it came across as an insult I sincerely apologize.

Thank you

I would love that.

God bless you chazcheh