A time machine back to the 1500's to talk to Martin Luther...,

[JonNC]

Jon,
I believe if you read the communications between Luther and the Catholic Church, you’ll see that it is clear that he (Luther) excommunicated himself.

I can understand why you would say this.

Jon

 

[GKC]

I think one can see both points of view. No one really wanted to hear his warnings about corruption, and that may have resulted in anger and frustration. OTOH, “be angry but sin not.”

Of course, he would say he did not depart from the historic apostolic teachings of the Church, but you here well express both views again. “Dissolusioned” may be precisely the right word.

Jon

Latae sententiae, perhaps.

GKC

 

[Jimmy_B]

Jimmy,

It seems to me that Lutheranism – or any of the early church bodies that came out of the Reformation – didn’t just spring up out of nowhere. That 1500 years of church history that preceded the reformation is part of their history, the foundation of their existence. There would be no Lutheran church if the Catholic Church had not existed. Lutherans would not confess the Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian Creeds if they had not come into use during those 1500 years. The apostles and the early church fathers are parts of our history. Without them we would not exist. Holy Scripture is a part of our history – and the scriptures predate the Reformation by centuries.

In summary, the faith that I have been given is not a product of Luther. It is not captive to teachings that are less than 500 years old. To be sure, Luther’s interpretations of Holy Scripture influence my beliefs but so do the teachings of many others who preceded him.

Hello Pastor Gary, nice to see you here again. May God’s peace be with you.

That 1500 years of church history that preceded the reformation is part of their history

I agree with this and also agree with all of the beliefs that we share, which are many. **

Without them we would not exist. Holy Scripture is a part of our history – and the scriptures predate the Reformation by centuries.

All true.

***There would be no Lutheran church if the Catholic Church had not existed. ***

Also true.

Lutherans would not confess the Apostles’, Nicene, and Athanasian Creeds if they had not come into use during those 1500 years

I agree… from Catholic priests, bishops and popes.

***The apostles and the early church fathers are parts of our history. Without them we would not exist. ***

The problem here is the lack of true apostolic succession and this is where the Catholic Church derives its authority.

Holy Scripture is a part of our history – and the scriptures predate the Reformation by centuries.

True, and the bible is a Catholic book, so everything in it supports Catholicism… when viewed and understood in context and in the light of Christian (Catholic) history and traditions. .

In summary, the faith that I have been given is not a product of Luther*.*

*True, Luther didn’t found the Lutheran Church, he had his own personal opinions that were in conflict with the original Church, the Roman Catholic Church, which were/are in error and in conflict with Catholic teachings, which means that they were/are in error and in conflict with Christ’s teachings. The men who followed Luther, adopted many of Luther’s beliefs as their own . Some of those men started the Lutheran Church and for the most part, with some exceptions, agreed with Luther’s personal opinions. Let me say that again… They agreed with Luther’s personal opinions. *

Luther’s interpretations of Holy Scripture influence my beliefs but so do the teachings of many others who preceded him

Luther’s opinions were bias against the Catholic Church and on that level alone, are suspect. However, everything that represents truth and goodness and any denomination, is true and good. Truth and goodness doesn’t change. Unfortunately the denominations which resulted from a break from Catholicism do not represent the fullness of truth. That can only be found in the original Christian Church and the Church were the bible came from, the church with apostolic succession, the Catholic Church.

Thank you for your post Pastor.

Your Thoughts?