A Tough Question for Catholics

[AlanFromWichita]

Joan M*:

That’s OK if you want to pass on the game. You may be excused, but you need not beg for permission from me anyway.

Alan

Excuse me, but the OP was “Wormwood” - could it be that “AlanFromWichita” has two identities, and forgot which one he was posting under? Alan - are you Wormwood?

Now you’re asking me to excuse you, and I do so happily because that’s what Christianity is all about. I have nothing against you whatsoever, regardless of what you might have done that you haven’t told me about yet.

Besides, I completely agree that the OP’s handle was “Wormwood” so I have no argument with you there.

As far as whether it could be that “AlanFromWichita” has two identities, it’s possible. I’ve been called a lot of names before. Plus, my wife and two of my daughters also have logins, so in our family there is more than one login. It is very unlikely, though I would not completely count out the possibility, that I would “forget” or otherwise not be aware of what identity I’m posting under because we have different forum colors. If it’s blue, I know I’m logged in as AlanFromWichita. If it isn’t, it’s either not logged in or is one of my family members.

This keeps it simple, although I suspect sometimes I do see red where there isn’t any, I’d place a large amount of money that even though this theory doesn’t completely answer your question, I probably have not in the past posted under one name thinking I was posting under another.

That all said, it is true that I posted under my wife’s login a couple times, “Marmee79” but I believe I disclosed that – so again, it wasn’t a matter of confusion on my part. I would not dare post under Julie’s name without her consent, as I’m told by some other poster’s that I need to be careful around her as she’s packing:
http://www.triv.org/journal/images/loaded_cat-tm.jpg

These answers may not be entirely satisfactory but hopefully they get you somewhere in the right direction.

One more question, is whether I’m Wormwood? Well, since you capitalized it, I’m assuming you are not referring to the termite damage in my house, though now that I think about it there’s one more thing to fret over. :crying:

Oh yes, Wormwood. I’ve never actually pondered being “Wormwood” before, but I like hypothetical games. Sometimes it’s hard for me to stay on topic but I’ll try to get your question answered? I have to know what the term “Wormwood” means to you, before I can answer unambiguously. To try to move this along a bit for your benefit, I will make the Grand Assumption, and correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the question was whether I, Alan Siegman, aka AlanFromWichita (how silly of me, of course I have a different identity. Duhhh, I guess you caught me), have access somehow to the “Wormwood” login on this forum and thereby initiated this thread? If that’s the question, the answer is, no.

Now if you find Wormwood interesting, then I might want to here more about What It Might Be Like to be Wormwood in your mind.

There’s one thing I noticed, though. You added boldface to my quote, to the part about “but you need not beg for permission from me anyway.” I’m not sure why you did that, if only for emphasis to illustrate that you now realize that Joseph Bilodeau did not have to beg for my permission, or maybe to see if this applies to you as well.

In case that’s your question, I say it’s OK for you to pass on the game as well, and that you wouldn’t have had to ask my permission. Since you did ask, though, then you are very welcome, and it makes me feel important.

Hey! Are you tricking me? Are you actually Joseph and think I was talking to you? If so, then I stand by my original statement. You need not beg for permission from me to opt out.

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Wormwood:

That was kind of the pont, to see what each person took seperately from catholicism, like which elements would be most important in their choice.

Yeah, it’s like pulling teeth to get Catholics to actually admit to having a personal opinion on anything.

From the time they are little they are ridiculed if they ever do express an opinion outside the “norm.”

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Wormwood:

As always, when you run out of constructive statements, you turn to attack the question. It is a mere speculation and not at all as complicated as you want to make it. I hope you are not this difficult in real life Ghosty .

I’ll vouch for Ghosty. I think I remember seeing some pretty cool stuff from him/her on other threads. I take it as a communications issue.

Nope, sorry to disappoint you Joan…sadly there is but ONE wormwood

Oh, no. It isn’t I, is it? Others have been confusing me on this issue, but since you have the login I will trust your answer.

Also since you were the OP on this thread I humbly beg your permission to continue posting in this thread, even if to say that I have nothing to say. Is that OK with you?

Alan

 

[Fidelis]

Sounds like one of those questions a kid would ask:

“Dad, who would win in a fight between a lion and a Tyranasaurus Rex?”

When a kid asks it, it’s cute. But that’s because they’re kids.

 

[buffalo]

Wormwood:

Ok say Jesus came back to earth tommorow, and he said that TWO religions were right…based on what you know about scripture and other faiths, who would catholics say the second correct church would be? I.

It would be impossible. He founded One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. There cannot be another that is equally true.

Now if He were to say one contains the “fullness of truth” (Caholicism - His Church) and another that got some of it right - How about OT Judaism? The Anglican and Protestant Churches rejected His fullness so I do not know where they would fall.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Fidelis:

Sounds like one of those questions a kid would ask:

“Dad, who would win in a fight between a lion and a Tyranasaurus Rex?”

When a kid asks it, it’s cute. But that’s because they’re kids.

That’s a really good point. Once people tend to get older, we “expect” them to behave as an adult and take on more responsibility. This is fine for society, but what about matters of the heart?

The reason it’s cute when a child asks it, is that we assume the child is asking in innocence. When an adult asks it, we think they are idiots. Or is it that a child sees something in the question beyond the obvious answer – because nobody has tarnished his innocence to the point that he assumes to know the answer. Maybe it’s also cute because the child asks boldly and innocently without disclaimers like, “I know this is going to sound silly.” At least if adults use such a disclaimer, then they can be thought of as having odd taste in discussion topics, rather than just blithering idiots.

How many adults can claim to be but a beginner in matters spiritual, and how many questions have they suppressed for years because They Were Afraid To Ask?

How clueless does a child or adult have to be, before they are seen as “troublemakers” instead of “innocent children.” Here’s an actual example. A kid in about fourth grade, plus or minus a couple years, makes feast day cards for the principal Sister Claire James, who happens to be overweight. The kid draws a card featuring a cow, and writes a rhyme which in conclusion states that she reminds him of a cow. Is that “cute” or a serious act of disrespect?

Einstein’s theory of relativity was founded on a childlike question. Uncle Albert one day was sitting there thinking, “gee I wonder what it would be like to ride on a light beam.” Next thing you know, he gave birth to Modern Physics, the first time that additional truth beyond Newtonian Physics was even imagined, much less put into practice.

Alan

Aha, another excuse for some “Albert-isms”
Albert Einstein:

People like you and I, though mortal of course like everyone else, do not grow old no matter how long we live…[We] never cease to stand like curious children before the great mystery into which we were born. (in a letter to Otto Juliusburger)

I think and think for months and years, ninety-nine times, the conclusion is false. The hundredth time I am right.

The pursuit of truth and beauty is a sphere of activity in which we are permitted to remain children all our lives.

The search for truth is more precious than its possession.

Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.

I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious.

With fame I become more and more stupid, which of course is a very common phenomenon.

Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.

Perfection of means and confusion of ends seem to characterize our age.

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.

We know nothing at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. The real nature of things we shall never know.

I am neither especially clever nor especially gifted. I am only very, very curious.

Politics is more difficult than physics.

As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality

 

[Beebs]

Fidelis:

Sounds like one of those questions a kid would ask:

“Dad, who would win in a fight between a lion and a Tyranasaurus Rex?”

When a kid asks it, it’s cute. But that’s because they’re kids.

I was thinks the same thing.

Isn’t there a saying that “if” is only a game for childern.



Beebs

 

[LSK]

Wormwood:

A hypothetical for you guys.

Ok say Jesus came back to earth tommorow, and he said that TWO religions were right…based on what you know about scripture and other faiths, who would catholics say the second correct church would be? It can be protestant groups or any religion, I am just interested in your reasoning. Thanks all.

P.S.
I say TOUGH because you HAVE to pick someone else…saying no one …or catholics and orthodox catholics doesn’t count…really think.

I believe Jesus would know his Bride, The Holy Mother Church. Other than that, I rely upon the Catechism to guide me and believe that God’s mercy is infinite.

I am also REALLY REALLY SURE that God is a 49er Fan - does that count in your question?:dancing:

 

[PhilNeri]

I think the point of this question was to ask what we thought had the next full amount of truth after Catholicism. In other words, after Catholicism, what’s the next best thing?

That is a tough question. For me, it’s probably a tie among Jews, Anglicans, and Orthodox. Anglicans and Orthodox are probably the closest to Catholicism, but their reasoning is flawed when it comes to authority. The Jews, on the other hand, missed the whole Jesus thing altogether.

A good analogy would be a race. The Jews are still sitting at the starting line waiting for the gun, which they missed. Anglicans and Orthodox are running, but they got a little off the track. You have an arguable case for either one. You could say the Anglicans and Orthodox are closer in proximity, but on the other hand, the Jews are the only ones still on the track, no matter how far behind they are.

Hope this makes sense. This is just a long winded way of saying that I don’t know.

 

[LSK]

AlanFromWichita:

Yeah, it’s like pulling teeth to get Catholics to actually admit to having a personal opinion on anything.

From the time they are little they are ridiculed if they ever do express an opinion outside the “norm.”

Alan

Not in my house - I’m half Italian, half Irish and educated by Sisters of St. Joseph and the Jesuits…if we didn’t stretch our minds and go outside the norm a little bit we were judged as ‘average’ - which was a BIG NO NO in my household growing up!

 

[Ignatius]

Wormwood:

A hypothetical for you guys.

Ok say Jesus came back to earth tommorow, and he said that TWO religions were right…based on what you know about scripture and other faiths, who would catholics say the second correct church would be? It can be protestant groups or any religion, I am just interested in your reasoning. Thanks all.

P.S.
I say TOUGH because you HAVE to pick someone else…saying no one …or catholics and orthodox catholics doesn’t count…really think.

What’s tough about this. If you’ve done your homework, you know that the Eastern or Oriental Orthodox Churches are the only other real possibility in Christianity. Of course the God of Yeshua ha Moshiach is a Father who keeps His promises to His people.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Wormwood:

A hypothetical for you guys.

Ok say Jesus came back to earth tommorow, and he said that TWO religions were right…based on what you know about scripture and other faiths, who would catholics say the second correct church would be? It can be protestant groups or any religion, I am just interested in your reasoning. Thanks all.

P.S.
I say TOUGH because you HAVE to pick someone else…saying no one …or catholics and orthodox catholics doesn’t count…really think.

I suppose I would have to clarify my answer to say that the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is where the fullness of faith resides, and that while other christian religions may have a lot of good truth they do not have the fullness of truth because of their separation from Christ’s Church. But the next closest church would have to be the Orthodox Churches, as noted by the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324

322 LG 15.
323 UR 3.
324 Paul VI, Discourse, December 14, 1975; cf. UR 13-18.

That’s my answer to your little question…

Now, would you please answer mine: If Jesus Christ came back and proclaimed that the Catholic Church was His One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, what would you do Wormwood?

 

[MrS]

Catholicism with the TLM and
Catholicism with the NO

 

[Michael_Paul]

Wormwood:

A hypothetical for you guys.

Ok say Jesus came back to earth tommorow, and he said that TWO religions were right…based on what you know about scripture and other faiths, who would catholics say the second correct church would be? It can be protestant groups or any religion, I am just interested in your reasoning. Thanks all.

P.S.
I say TOUGH because you HAVE to pick someone else…saying no one …or catholics and orthodox catholics doesn’t count…really think.

I don’t mean to be rude but this is truly a stupid question. There is but one true Church the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Known in the world as the Catholic Church. I’m somewhat interested in why you asked this truly stupid question if you care to share.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

LSK:

Not in my house - I’m half Italian, half Irish and educated by Sisters of St. Joseph and the Jesuits…if we didn’t stretch our minds and go outside the norm a little bit we were judged as ‘average’ - which was a BIG NO NO in my household growing up!

Dare I suspect that you were “lucky” to have been brought up in conditions where honesty was rampant? :bounce:

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

MrS:

Catholicism with the TLM and
Catholicism with the NO

What a clever answer! :clapping:

Alan

 

[Philthy]

What a bunch of crybabies! If you don’t like the game don’t play. Here, let me show how to handle such questions:

The second correct Church is the Church of the Living God, the pillar and foundation of Truth (1Tim 3:15)

Done. Now its Wormwoods turn to cry…

Philthy

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Michael Paul:

I don’t mean to be rude but this is truly a stupid question. There is but one true Church the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Known in the world as the Catholic Church. I’m somewhat interested in why you asked this truly stupid question if you care to share.

This is a fascinating response.

First, you don’t mean to be rude, but you do state this is “truly” a stupid question. Is that infallibly true, or just true in your opinion? If it is infallibly true, then I understand that you are posting this comment as an Act of Kindness to let the OP (original poster, for any newbies) know they have erred and perhaps sinned by bringing up such a preposterous question.

If it is simply your opinion that the question is stupid, then I’m glad you said you don’t mean to be rude because otherwise we would have thought from your word choice that you were meaning to be rude. Since you were in fact rude but didn’t mean to be, then you must need a lesson in manners, and/or just forgiveness. In the case it is the former, then I gladly provide. May I suggest in the future, you might replace such honest ejaculations as “this is a truly stupid question” with a softer, gentler approach such as, “though this question is challenging for me, I do wish to opine on it because I don’t think there is a direct, honest answer to the question as you have posed it.” Of course, I favor that approach also because it is verbose and I seem to be allergic to brevity.

Also since the thread above has discussed the “stupidity” of the question and the motives of the OP at length, then you might also be aware that to us who’ve been around a while it looks as if you didn’t scan or read the thread very well because normally when we get into bashing each other, we like to play up on what’s already been said and yours started from scratch.

Since you are interested in knowing why the OP would post such a stupid question if you scroll up some on this thread you might find some insight into those things you ponder.

Alan

 

[javelin]

OK, here’s my shot:

1. Jesus would say the Catholic Church is His true Church. I really need to say that because right now I really *believe *that is true. So, based on that answer…
2. Number two would have to be some religion that doesn’t contradict Catholic dogma. I’m not knowledgeable enough about other religions to know what ones fit that bill. You are correct that “silence” on the part of a “religion” regarding Christ does not by necessity mean that religion opposes His Truth. After all, the Church says that God has revealed Himself to all men, in various ways, and it is their repsonse to that revelation that matters. Maybe there is a small group of people somewhere who have got it right on everything they think it true and are just unsure about the rest. They would be candidates.

OK, while I was hypothetically babbling above, the real answer came to me.

1. Catholicism

… and …

1. Devil worship :bigyikes:

now before anyone blasts me for this…

The devil is real, and people worship him. The OP didn’t say that the religion needed to be a good choice for people, just that it be true.

Peace,
javelin

 

[MariaGorettiGrl]

1. Catholicism
   … and …
2. Devil worship
   The devil is real, and people worship him. The OP didn’t say that the religion needed to be a good choice for people, just that it be true.

Oooh! Deep! I second this answer.