A traditional church sui iuris

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Andreas_Hofer

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I never start threads that turn out to be all that popular, but I thought I’d solicit opinions anyway on whether you folks think the traditional rite and spirituality would be well-served by the creation of an autonomous church. It would obviously involve trade-offs, so I thought a short brainstorm might help get things going. Off the top of my head I can think of:

Pros
  • no need for indults as the TLM would be its adherents’ proper rite
  • ability to restore discipline with a separate or at least modified code of canons
  • bishops formed in the rite and thus capable of making good and loyal decisions about its future development or reversion
  • a way of calling attention to the fact that Latin tradition is just as worthy of preservation as Eastern traditions
  • ability to articulate the Faith with a traditional vocabulary and conceptual outlook
Cons
  • the impression that the rite and spirituality are not the common possession of the Latin church
  • greatly diminished access to NO facilities and priests for the growth of traditional communities
  • possibly losing the bishop of Rome as our patriarch/primate
  • current lack of bishops
  • diminshed ability to influence the greater Latin church in the future
I figured giving even amounts of pro and con was a fair way to start, so I won’t try to think of more for now. Feel free to add your own, and please give make sure to answer the question, “Would the creation of a Traditional Latin church sui iuris be a good idea?”
 
Andreas_Hofer said:
I figured giving even amounts of pro and con was a fair way to start, so I won’t try to think of more for now. Feel free to add your own, and please give make sure to answer the question, “Would the creation of a Traditional Latin church sui iuris be a good idea?”
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Absolutely not. The place of the Tridentine Mass, and the entire movement that goes along with it, has its place solely in the Roman Rite of the Church, under the direct authority of the Roman Pontiff. We are, and always will be, Roman! The creation of a whole other Church contrary to the whole purpose of the Tridentine movement.
 
Caesar said:
Absolutely not. The place of the Tridentine Mass, and the entire movement that goes along with it, has its place solely in the Roman Rite of the Church, under the direct authority of the Roman Pontiff. We are, and always will be, Roman! The creation of a whole other Church contrary to the whole purpose of the Tridentine movement.
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Hmm, but there are multiple Churches within the Byzantine Rite, so why could there not be two Churches within the Latin Rite?

Having said that though, I would think that something along the lines of what Opus Dei has might be better with its own bishop or two (or how ever many they think is necessary).

I think that would be better then this rumored “universal indult”.
 
Hmm, but there are multiple Churches within the Byzantine Rite, so why could there not be two Churches within the Latin Rite?
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Actually, this would be a good solution. Let’s come up with a name for the OLD Roman Rite.
To give it an ancient flavor like the the Eastern Churches of the Byzantine,
Simply the Tridentine Churches, which genuinely reflects the way its adherents think.
Tridentine Bishops, priests, deacons, Canon (1907??), Architecture (a perfect dump site for the NO renovation discards),
Yes, that’s a GREAT idea.
I’m really not sure how much of VATII the Byzantine churches actually practice, but their application of VATII would be a good model to start with.
Signed,
First Tridentine Catholic Church of Christ
or maybe TrAdentine.
TCCOC, I like it.
 
The purpose of the Tridentine movement is to inspire renewal in the Church through traditional practices and spirituality. It is NOT to create a brand new Church of it’s own.
 
Caesar said:
The purpose of the Tridentine movement is to inspire renewal in the Church through traditional practices and spirituality…
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Well, since the Tridentine movement tends to have larger families, we should be catching up quickly. Can’t ignore us too much longer.
 
BobP123 said:
Well, since the Tridentine movement tends to have larger families, we should be catching up quickly. Can’t ignore us too much longer.
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Yup, pretty soon the liberals will be extinct.
 
I wonder whether a TCSI would satisfy traditionalists. Aren’t other Churches influenced by the Vatican in various ways? People have commented for example that the Eastern rites aren’t “safe”, that they will be or are changing too. Traditionalists have relied a great deal upon having decision-making autonomy.
 
BobP123 said:
Well, since the Tridentine movement tends to have larger families, we should be catching up quickly. Can’t ignore us too much longer.
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And since the only parishes that are receiving large numbers of ordinations are traditional ones, then most of the new priests will be conservative, meaning most of our bishops could be conservative in 25-30 years…
 
Rolltide said:
And since the only parishes that are receiving large numbers of ordinations are traditional ones, then most of the new priests will be conservative, meaning most of our bishops could be conservative in 25-30 years…
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Here’s hoping… :gopray2:
 
Andreas_Hofer said:
I never start threads that turn out to be all that popular, but I thought I’d solicit opinions anyway on whether you folks think the traditional rite and spirituality would be well-served by the creation of an autonomous church. It would obviously involve trade-offs, so I thought a short brainstorm might help get things going. Off the top of my head I can think of:

Pros
  • no need for indults as the TLM would be its adherents’ proper rite
  • ability to restore discipline with a separate or at least modified code of canons
  • bishops formed in the rite and thus capable of making good and loyal decisions about its future development or reversion
  • a way of calling attention to the fact that Latin tradition is just as worthy of preservation as Eastern traditions
  • ability to articulate the Faith with a traditional vocabulary and conceptual outlook
Cons
  • the impression that the rite and spirituality are not the common possession of the Latin church
  • greatly diminished access to NO facilities and priests for the growth of traditional communities
  • possibly losing the bishop of Rome as our patriarch/primate
  • current lack of bishops
  • diminshed ability to influence the greater Latin church in the future
I figured giving even amounts of pro and con was a fair way to start, so I won’t try to think of more for now. Feel free to add your own, and please give make sure to answer the question, “Would the creation of a Traditional Latin church sui iuris be a good idea?”
Click to expand...
Christ is raising His Church up through the Tridentine Mass. His Bride will walk the same road as Christ did. It has already begun IMO.
 
Uxor said:
Christ is raising His Church up through the Tridentine Mass. His Bride will walk the same road as Christ did. It has already begun IMO.
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You are aware that His Church is more than just the Latin Church, right?

The Catholic Church made up of 23 sui iuris Churches in communion with the Pope.

The Tridentine Mass is only an issue in one of those Churches.
 
ByzCath said:
You are aware that His Church is more than just the Latin Church, right?

The Catholic Church made up of 23 sui iuris Churches in communion with the Pope.

The Tridentine Mass is only an issue in one of those Churches.
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How about 24? That’s all the idea proposes.
Is there anything that prohibits that?
What % is the Latin Church vs any other Rite?
2%, 10%, 50%, 85%, 90%. What?
 
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