C
CAKF
Guest
delete the video I want the truth to go away. I want to bury my head in the sand and believe in my imaginary friend.
- Status
I
i_am_a_Catholic
Guest
Friend, what makes you traditional is NOT the EF. That would be to miss the point of being traditional.Hello again – it’s me, ParvaDei.
I’m writing this because I have started going to a public university, and I’ve found that while the parish is starting to become more orthodox (since they’ve recently come out of a funk of theological liberalism with a new set of more faithful priests), I still feel like the odd one out.
This is because I’m practically the only college student who veils and prefers more TLM-like liturgical praxis. (That isn’t to say that I will join LifeTeen/Taizé-esque college ministry activities if those are the only equivalents in the area, but I feel out of place.The only place I seem to fit in is either at the church’s Chant Mass or the Masses with the non-folk-style hymns.)
And please note a few things: the nearest TLM is two hours away (and I don’t have a car), and if anyone is going to post something about me switching to Christendom (or the like – even out of jest), I go to that particular university because of money issues and because of the quality of its research programs and faculty.
So, what should I do (besides go to the Ordinary Form on Sundays, etc.)? I don’t want to feel like I’m the only traditionalist Catholic in the university. . . .
Being traditional is about having a mindset that is more attuned with our past. It is to have a prudent mind, a wise and discerning mind when it comes to day to day matters pertaining to faith and conduct which is not afraid to draw from the knowledge of traditions.
You will be a traditional Catholic and set an example for others when you do just that.
So even if you attend ordinary mass, things like taking communion on the tongue, praying after and before mass, praying the rosary, wearing the veil, these are the things that will matter.
In your life, avoiding situations that will lead to temptation (night clubs, cohabiting with the opposite sex, late night parties, dressing immodestly) this is what will make you a traditional Catholic (and an actual Catholic).
So don’t get tied up with this EF vs. OF business. EF is a great part of our tradition. But it is not what makes a person a traditional Catholic.
A
acarlson
Guest
Yes! To the OP: have you ever considered that God has put you into this situation for a reason, that maybe he doesn’t want you to “escape” to your comfort zone in an EF mass 2 hours away? Any time you’re put in a difficult situation, pray on it to figure out why you’re there. It’ll help you avoid mental and spiritual anguish, and will prevent you from becoming bitter in the process.
Trust me on this; I’m a senior faithful Catholic at a very secular school. I’ve hit the “everyone sucks and I hate my life and I hate this place” wall quite a few times.
C
clem456
Guest
Nice post.Yes! To the OP: have you ever considered that God has put you into this situation for a reason, that maybe he doesn’t want you to “escape” to your comfort zone in an EF mass 2 hours away? Any time you’re put in a difficult situation, pray on it to figure out why you’re there. It’ll help you avoid mental and spiritual anguish, and will prevent you from becoming bitter in the process.
Trust me on this; I’m a senior faithful Catholic at a very secular school. I’ve hit the “everyone sucks and I hate my life and I hate this place” wall quite a few times.
Our Monsignor had a similar message in regards to Sunday’s Gospel.
The Christian call is not to live in a comfortable world where our own views and tastes are triumphant. But to take up our cross and carry it, as Christ did. If it were there other way around, there would be no cross… Peter’s denial of Christ’s message of dying to self, is also our denial.
The focal point of the Christian call is Christ, not the particular EF or “traditional” Cathholicism.
R
Rich_C
Guest
+1
It’s not just a “Mass preference,” it a worldview and a lifestyle. Live it where you are and maybe God will send you people who are attracted to it and want to try it. The Church needs more of what you do.
C
clem456
Guest
B
Baelor
Guest
There are NOT specific to Traditional Catholicism.
These are also NOT specific to Traditional Catholicism, as you note (then why include them in that category?).
I
i_am_a_Catholic
Guest
Is your inquiry regarding why a certain item is considered traditional? If that is the case, you might be on the wrong thread my friend.
But to satisfy your inquiring mind, I simply ask you to look around and number the parishes today that advocate any of the listed items above. They are far and few.
So I think to call them traditional would be proper. You are however right in pointing out that they are CATHOLIC values. I wish more people realized that about traditional Catholicism
B
Baelor
Guest
Not at all. The poster asked for traditional practices. Items were provided that were not actually traditionalist, and for the sake of accuracy I pointed them out. The alternative is dissemination of misinformation, and I am sure that no one wants that, correct?
Every single parish that I have attended has had parishioners pray the Rosary and pray before Mass. Furthermore, something as basic as prayer, that is required by all Catholics, cannot be appropriated by a particular faction.
Traditional Catholicism is distinct from Catholicism in the choice of practices. You cannot say that something required by all Catholics makes them traditionalist, because then the definition of traditional would be useless: it would merely be Catholic. As the situation stands, the term has meaning because it espouses certain voluntary practices: veiling, the Extraordinary Form (if one is a liturgical traditionalist), perhaps a particular home arrangement, and so forth. You correctly point this out. Nevertheless, the idea of praying before Mass or praying the Rosary are most certainly not confined to traditionalists, and it is offensive to claim as much.So I think to call them traditional would be proper. You are however right in pointing out that they are CATHOLIC values. I wish more people realized that about traditional Catholicism
P
poche
Guest
why don’t see if you can rabble rouse and get a group to sign a petition to have them celebrate the TLM there.
I
i_am_a_Catholic
Guest
I am not sure what is confusing you here?
I come from a view point that traditional Catholicism IS the only valid form of Catholicism. You seem to wholeheartedly agree with me as far as I can see. So I am not quiet sure what you are getting at.
I think you are being a bit too sensitive here. All the mentioned items were things that were part of Church tradition for centuries. So there is no inaccuracy in stating that they are part of the traditionalist repertoire.
Most modern day Catholics simply do not practice these things. The average Catholic family does not pray the Rosary together daily. The average Catholic kid does not pray the rosary daily and neither do they pray before mass.
So I agree with you as I said that there is only one form of Catholicism i.e. traditional Catholicism. What both sides are guilty of is making it look like there are two valid versions.
C
clem456
Guest
M
Mrs_Sally
Guest
Just wanted to say that FOCUS is a wonderful organization. Hope you are able to be a missionary with them!Yes! To the OP: have you ever considered that God has put you into this situation for a reason, that maybe he doesn’t want you to “escape” to your comfort zone in an EF mass 2 hours away? Any time you’re put in a difficult situation, pray on it to figure out why you’re there. It’ll help you avoid mental and spiritual anguish, and will prevent you from becoming bitter in the process.
Trust me on this; I’m a senior faithful Catholic at a very secular school. I’ve hit the “everyone sucks and I hate my life and I hate this place” wall quite a few times.
I
i_am_a_Catholic
Guest
So we are in agreement then. If I was not clear, I am from the camp that traditional Catholicism is the ONLY form of valid Catholicism.
It is unfortunate that there is a “NEW” Catholicism that wants to break with our traditions and mislead people in to thinking there are two.
A
april32010
Guest
then you will be very unhappy with this forum,also insulting what the Church has approved is not tolerated on this forum.
B
Baelor
Guest
If you are claiming that traditionalism is the only valid form of Catholicism, then you cannot say that optional things (e.g. veiling) are “traditional,” because they are not required by the Catholic Church.
Either you espouse un-Catholic beliefs by stating that certain optional things are required, in which case I would suggest that you not mislead others on an ostensibly Catholic forum, or you acknowledge that “traditionalism” gains meaning only when it is a reference to optional things, in which case it is not able to appropriate something as basic and required as prayer.
The problem is stating that certain things are “traditional” versus “not.” This is the implied distinction, one set in motion by the OP and inherent to this thread. The notion that the Rosary is “traditional” and therefore confined to “traditionalists” is absurd.
Furthermore, you are being outright misleading, q.v. your post earlier:
You are indeed making that same distinction, one that is as theoretically erroneous as it is empirically so, with regards, at least, to prayer and the Rosary.
First, the sample must be restricted to Catholics who are theologically and morally in line with the Church, since this discussion ought to be restricted to faithful Catholics. Second, I challenge the validity of the claim. The Rosary and prayer are encouraged and practiced at many NO Masses. Every single parish I have attended has a Rosary started by one of the congregants before Mass and during the hours of Reconciliation. I have no reason whatsoever to believe that my evidence is biased.
T
thewanderer
Guest
Not to try and derail the thread, but, you are aware that ‘traditional catholicism’ does not include any of the Eastern Rites of Catholicism and so that by this statement you are claiming that no Eastern Rite Catholics are actually Catholic?
A
april32010
Guest
and the Ordinary Form of the Mass is valid Catholicism .
P
Portrait
Guest
Dear i_am_a_Catholic,
Cordial greetings and a very good day. May I just say that I wholly concur with the above remark. The following may be a helpful commentary upon your comment:
Many contemporary Catholics, dear friend, whilst they are mostly thoroughly orthodox as touching faith and morals, would not assert that it is necessary to reconnect with ecclesiastical tradition. There is only one authentic Catholicism and that is the Catholicism that does not break with the tradition of Holy Mother Church throughout the ages.
What has sadly occured in recent decades is that the benchmark of orthodoxy has shifted from Sacred Scripture, intrinsic tradition (of which the Magisterium is a part) and extrinsic tradition (which would include Magisterial acts in the past, e.g. the Syllabus of Errors), to a sort of psychological state in which *only *the current Magisterium and Catechism is followed. This tendency is all too frequently seen on these boards on a whole range of topics, for example see the multiple modesty debates and role of women threads.
Many modern orthodox Catholics have fallen into and are locked into this mode of thinking and the only yardstick by which they judge orthodoxy is whether or not a man follows the current Magisterium. Please do not misunderstand my meaning, dear friend, these are mostly good and earnest people who love our Church, but what they have is not an authentic Catholicism because it is incomplete. Authentic Catholicism would not just take the current Magisterium/Catechism as their norm, but also Sacred Scripture, intrinsic tradition, extrinsic tradition *and *the current Magisterium as the principles of correct Catholic thinking. It is this, dear friend, which distinguishes many modern (orthodox) Catholics from authentic Catholicism. The modern approach has proved popular, especially with the young, because it can effectively circumvent the older seemingly ‘harsher’ teaching with its arduous demands. Owing to the sad fact that many modern Catholics have become imbued with the spirit of the age, the whole ethos of authentic Catholicism appears too severe and other-worldly to be appealing and therefore it is dismissed as irrelevant and unhelpful as a guide for contemporary Catholics.
Thus it is hardly surprising, dear friend, that for many modern Catholics the extrinsic tradition of the Church is no longer normative for deciding what should or should not be done. Thus what might be termed a *sola-Catechism *mentality holds sway and men become obesessed with the notion that the Church must adapt to the modern world. Thus rather than helping the modern world to adapt to the teaching of Holy Mother Church, the very reverse has been the case. This is why there has been an excessive and fanatical concern with holding so called politically correct postions on secular matters. Rather than having a healthy distrust of the world - which our Lord exhorts us to have - many priests today will only teach something from the pulpit provided it will not rock the boat or offend the youth. For example, how many priests are willing to denounce radical anti-biblical femenism or immodest vesture? How many will warn the young of their flock about listening to that debased sensory material known as rock and pop music?
This, dear friend, is surely why there is so much suspicion between modern Catholicism and authentic Catholicism, for they both have fundamentally different perspectives. Modern Catholicism has implicitly accepted the erroneous view that extrinsic tradition cannot be trusted as a reliable guide, whereas authentic Catholicism embraces extrinsic tradition as something inherently good, being the product of the wisdom, labour of the saints and the Church throughout the ages. Essentially your modern Catholic (even those who identify as conservative) looks at the past through the eyes of the present, whilst the authentic Catholic quite correctly looks at the present through the eyes of the past. It may be asked by way of reply, who is to say that that is the right way to do things? Historically the *mens ecclesiae *or mind of the Chuch was expressed through the extrinsic tradition. In other words, since Holy Mother Church receives both its teaching from the past and the labour of the saints and previous Magisterium by tradition, it has always looked at the present through the eyes of the past. Such is to think with an authentically and truly Catholic mind.
This is a jolly huge subject, dear friend, and this is not the place to enter into it in any further depth as it is not germane to the thread topic. Nevertheless, I think it important that men understand the distinction between and different perspective of modern (orthodox) Catholicism and authentic Catholicism, for it is at the heart of much confusion as well as the depreciation of ecclesiastical tradition so common today.
God bless and thankyou for your splendid (name removed by moderator)ut, dear friend.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
- Status