A Tridentine-Novus Ordo Hybrid Mass

[AJV]

For example (and bear in mind that this is opinion, that I humbly submit to the will of the Holy Father, whatever that may be), the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar ought to be restored to the mass. Whether it was officially a part of the mass, or a prayer that the priest said privately before, it has existed at least since the days of Pope Gregory the Great…

Could you please elaborate?

 

[stmaria]

The main purpose of revising the Mass, according to Vatican II documents, was to increase participation by the laity and to eliminate superfluous elements that added little to the worship.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

There’s also the Ad Orientem issue. Priests are allowed to say the mass facing liturgical east, but how many of them really do this? On that same note, how many use Latin in their masses? These two things seem to say to me that the Mass of Paul VI is not very often said on the parochial level the way in which His Holiness intended it.

HH Pope Paul VI left it to bishop’s conferences to determine how much Latin would be used, but each conference’s decisions had to ratified by the Holy See. Thus, an all vernacular Mass exists because the Holy See allowed it and permitted it to exist (I, for one, am glad). Your point is broadly taken, however, that the Pope would probably turn pale if he saw the liberties that had been taken with the Mass he promulgated.

I’d love to see all of the other things you mention. With a few minor changes, I’d love there to simply be the EF…but in the vernacular.

 

[Rabbititus]

I’ve liked the 1965 missal ever since I first stumbled upon it online - I even bought a 1966 hand missal so that I could see the nuptual and requiem masses. I don’t consider this missal to be a hybrid at all - it is simply a revision done according to the mandates of the council.

 

[DebChris]

This seemed to be the place to post this from Pope John Paul II:

“In the history of the Church, the ‘old’ and the ‘new’ are always closely interwoven. The ‘new’ grows out of the ‘old’, and the ‘old’ finds a fuller expression in the ‘new.’ Thus it was for the Second Vatican Council and for the popes connected with the Council.”
“…the Council *drew much from the experience and reflections of *the immediate past, especially the intellectual legacy left by Pius XII.” Welcoming the New Millenium]

The General Instruction of the Roman Missal shows the Collect immediately preceding the First Reading. While the term is no longer used, it appears to be the conclusion of the Introductory Rites as the NO is now celebrated. Those who pray the LOTH may recognize it as the concluding prayer said the same day.
The Gradual is the Responsorial Psalm.

“As regards the Order of the Mass, ‘the rites have been simplified due care having been taken to preserve their substance. Elements which, with the passage of time, came to be duplicated or with little advantage have now been discarded,’ especially in the rites concerned with the preparation of the bread and wine, the breaking of the bread, and Communion.” [Apostolic Constitution on the Roman Missal, Pope Paul VI, 1969]
34. “The rites should be distinquished by noble simplicity.” [Constitution on Sacred Liturgy].

1. “The place in a church or oratory where the blessed Sacrament is reserved in the tabernacle should be truly prominent.
   54.The Blessed Sacrament should be reserved in a solid, inviolate tabernacle in the middle of the main altar or on a side altar, but in a truly prominent place.”[Instruction on the Worship of the Eucharistic Mystery].
   This has been my experience in the various churches where I have worshiped. I have lived in CA, WA, NJ, NC, WI, and Japan. I have also traveled cross country and spent an extended amount of time in LA and TX.
2. “The fact that the lay person is now able to receive holy communion in the hand should not suggest to him that this is ordinary bread or just any sacred object. Rather ought it to strengthen his sense of his dignity as a member of the Mystical Body of Christ, of which baptism and the grace of the Eucharist make him a part. He will thus experience an increase in faith in the great reality of the Body and Blood of the Lord which he touches with his hands. His respectful attitude should be proportionate to what he is doing.”[Instruction on the Manner of Distributing Holy Communion]

14.“Because the celebration of Mass is of its nature a community activity, the dialogues between celebrant and people, as also the acclamations, are of considerable importance. They are not only external signs of celebration in common, but also engender and foster union between celebrant and people.” [General Instruction on the Roman Missal]

I hope I did not take this thread off-topic in responding to earlier posts. I recognize the use of EMHCs as a pastoral decision, especially in large gatherings. Not all churches are as small as the parish I now attend. I belonged to a parish of over one thousand families in WI. There are churches that that are even larger. This makes it easier to distribute Holy Communion to more of the faithful more expeditiously. The last person to receive has almost as much time for reflection as the first person.

 

[otjm]

Also, for communion, “May the Body of our Lord Jesus Christ bring thy soul unto life everlasting” is a lot more reverent than the simple “The Body of Christ.” So few words make it easy for priests to speed through communion.

Having served as an altar boy in the late 50’s through the early 60’s, I have personal experience of how fast it can be said in Latin. We moved smartly getting the paten under the next chin because if we didn’t, we got a subtle push by the priest. The only thing that slowed him down was when he had spit on his fingers; he would wipe it off on the cloth we had over our left arm.

And what about taking communion kneeling? Let’s bring back the communion rails in NO parishes. It seems to me that by grabbing communion with their bare hands and chopping on it like it were a Lays potato chip as they walk back to their pews, people are showing great irrevence.

To begin with, if Communion is distributed correctly, it is placed in the palm of the communicant’s hand. The time that it takes for the commnicant to step forward, bow, hear the words “Body of Christ”, answer “Amen” and have the Host placed on their palm is about the same time that a priest going down the rail takes to administer the Host to between two and three people. Your observation of speed and time does not match my experience of time. Further, as to “chopping” the Host - the good sisters 50 years ago may have said it is sinful to chew the Host, but let’s look at John 6, in which Christ speaks of the Eucharist. The word he uses in Greek is a rather graphic one, which comes closer to the word “gnaw”. I have never seen anyone “chop” a Host, but Christ’s words at the Last Supper were “Take and eat”, not “take and dissolve”, and I have seen them eat the Host. It may be that this offends you, but I assure you I ahve seen it done reverantly, not only at my parish but also at the Trappist Abbey where I attend about once a month… Rome requested that hosts be made to appear more like bread, rather than less, unlike the almsot razor thin ones we used to recieve.

If we all kneeled and recieved on the tongue, it would help deepen the mystery, and acknowledge what we really believe about the eucharist.

On the other hand, if we knelt, it would make receiving the Cup much more awkward; it is difficult to do so because the altar rail has a tendency to knock one on the elbow, thus making it much more likely to spill. There are those who would forbid the reception from the Cup, but Rome has seen fit to allow us to recieve, as did the early Church.

We ought to be asking ourselves, “how casually would I behave if Jesus standing before me?” and then use the answer to dictate how we behave before the Blessed Sacrament.

Having been an EMHC for some time now, I can tell you that the people I see are reverant while receiving. Maybe your experience is different.

Just some thoughts while you are ruminating on the changes you would like to see. It may be that the parish you are in is not very reverant; I find that the leadership of the priest has more to do with reverance during Mass than anything else I can think of.

 

[DebChris]

Having been an EMHC for some time now, I can tell you that the people I see are reverant while receiving. Maybe your experience is different.

Just some thoughts while you are ruminating on the changes you would like to see. It may be that the parish you are in is not very reverant; I find that the leadership of the priest has more to do with reverance during Mass than anything else I can think of.

The reverance of the celebrant presiding over the Mass makes all the difference. A few years back, the priests in the diocese were asked by the bishop to take some time during the Feast of Corpus Christi to address the proper way of receiving Communion whether on the tongue or in the hand. Some were simple suggestions like making sure your teeth were brushed if receiving on the tongue; make sure you open your mouth and stick the tongue out. Don’t bite the EMCH. If you receive in the hands, make sure they have been washed. One hand is placed directly above the other–like a throne as one of the early fathers put it. If right handed the left hand is on top and if left handed then it would be your right hand on top. Lift the hands so the EMCH can easily place the host in your palm. A little instruction goes a long way.