A Truer Definition of Traditional Catholic

[ljubim]

First off, HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY EASTER!!!

After having given up CAF & other internet addictions for Lent, I’m so glad to be back I had planned on sharing a few good quotes from the Boston Catholic Journal website, but as I was re-reading the stuff this thought really hit me and it’s much more important:

People who are so-called “Traditional Catholics” really just have a stronger belief in the Real Presence.

Think about it… people go to the TLM exasperated at what they see as a lack of reverence, or not enough reverence, in the OF… People receive the Eucharist on the tongue because they couldn’t bear to lose a crumb of the Precious Body, or in humility that their hands are unworthy to hold God (and some kneel out of reverence for Our Lord as well)… Some women choose to veil their heads in the Prescence of Our Lord… There’s a vested interest in the “right” kind of music or the “right” way to act at Mass… because of the Presence of Jesus.

Just my late-night thoughts Any comments?

 

[ljubim]

Here are some of the quotes I was originally thinking of (this is good stuff here )

Look back and think of the many, many times you have passed by me in the Tabernacle – how lovingly I have watched you approach, thrilled at your coming, … and how sadly I have watched you pass me by with not so much as a silent greeting, a genuflection or even a bow. You have passed by me as by a column in the Church, which is unknowing of you, heedless of you, without love for you. Quickly, thoughtlessly, and most often attentive to your neighbor whom you would not dare to affront by ignoring or disregarding their presence. Surely you would not pass by even a casual acquaintance, let alone a loved friend, without so much as a word, a gesture – and yet you seem to fear, as it were, scandal, by acknowledging me.

Do you not know by now that to be one of mine is to be a scandal to the world, a contradiction to it?

From this link: read the whole thing!

imagine the following scenario:

Jesus Christ, hanging on the Cross, is being crucified before you. He is dying! His hair is matted with blood from the Crown of Thorns and His face is bruised from the blows of the Roman soldiers and covered with spit from all who mock Him. He is disrobed and open to shame. Even as the blood continues to issue from too many lacerations to count from the Scourging at the Pillar an hour before and the nails hold fast against the flesh yielding under the weight of the cruciform Figure, He is crying out in agony to His Father. Mary, His Mother, is standing before Him crying inconsolably, and would crumple to the ground were she not borne up by John and Mary Magdalene. They are weeping uncontrollably, too. All around, pious women are weeping and wailing, men are sobbing and jeering. It is a scene of utter desolation, unfathomable sorrow, a torrent of tears and a torrent of taunts.

Have you grasped the scene? THIS is what is being enacted before you at the Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Now we arrive.

The electric guitars are plugged in, the drum and trap set are being set up, and the piano is being tuned. The acoustic guitars are being strummed aimlessly, and the flute trills sporadically in the background. There is chattering intermingled with laughter among the musicians. They are preparing to entertain the sobbing women, the raging men, and the indifferent spectators looking on. The entertainment is about to begin and Cat Stevens’ (now a Muslim), “Morning has Broken” is the song that will first greet us on Calvary after the MC of the musicians cordially welcomes us to the Crucifixion. Throughout the Mass they will compete with Jesus Christ on the Cross for our attention and adulation, calling us away from the Cross that we made of our sins for the Son of God to hang upon, to their virtuosity as singers, guitarists, or piano players. They will entertain us.

From a very long lesson about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass

Some more free advertisement for them , they also will mail you a free CD to help learn the basic prayers in Latin. I got mine with two beautiful songs at the end too:thumbsup:

May God Bless you all on this wonderful Easter morning!

 

[ThomasEugene]

First off, HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY EASTER!!!

After having given up CAF & other internet addictions for Lent, I’m so glad to be back I had planned on sharing a few good quotes from the Boston Catholic Journal website, but as I was re-reading the stuff this thought really hit me and it’s much more important:

People who are so-called “Traditional Catholics” really just have a stronger belief in the Real Presence.

Think about it… people go to the TLM exasperated at what they see as a lack of reverence, or not enough reverence, in the OF… People receive the Eucharist on the tongue because they couldn’t bear to lose a crumb of the Precious Body, or in humility that their hands are unworthy to hold God (and some kneel out of reverence for Our Lord as well)… Some women choose to veil their heads in the Prescence of Our Lord… There’s a vested interest in the “right” kind of music or the “right” way to act at Mass… because of the Presence of Jesus.

Just my late-night thoughts Any comments?

There are just questions in my mind: when the Mass is in OF, is it required to receive the Holy Communion with the hands. I remember receiving my First Holy Communion, it is not in Latin, it is in OF and we were kneeling one by one. Afterwards, we received the Communion on Tongue.

We don’t have to judge one’s level of belief through what we see and I think it’s improper. Now don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against the Catholics who wants Traditional observance. I would like to see women in mantillas, but that doesn’t mean they’re holier or their souls are better than those who chose not to wear the veils who are living chastely.

I don’t think it’s good to have the “holier-than-thou” attitude.

 

[ConservativeOne]

First off, HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY EASTER!!!
…
ITEM 1 - People who are so-called “Traditional Catholics” really just have a stronger belief in the Real Presence.

Think about it…
ITEM 2 - people go to the TLM exasperated at what they see as a lack of reverence, or not enough reverence, in the OF…
ITEM 3 - People receive the Eucharist on the tongue because they couldn’t bear to lose a crumb of the Precious Body, or in humility that their hands are unworthy to hold God (and some kneel out of reverence for Our Lord as well)…
ITEM 4 - Some women choose to veil their heads in the Prescence of Our Lord…
ITEM 5 - There’s a vested interest in the “right” kind of music or the “right” way to act at Mass… because of the Presence of Jesus.
…
Any comments?

Welcome back - I’ve been away, too - but not due to Lent. I’ve identified your questions and will answer accordingly:

1. Scarey thought, isn’t it? Novus Ordo or Tridentine - isn’t the Mass ABOUT the Presence of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament? (Novus Ordo just approaches it in more modern manner?) My first knowledge about Tridentine vs. Novus was a lecture where the priest said it was possible there was no presence with newly-introduced style of Consecration. A question was raised that Sister Lucy (one of children at Fatima) prayed before The Blessed Sacrament - to which was answered, “even saints make mistakes”…a puzzlement for those trying to make correct decisions and fearing anethema.
2. I’m sure there are many.
3. I think it’s more that we are not worthy to handle Our Lord’s Body. (Lord, I am not worthy to receive You.) That’s the reason for the priest’s consecrated hands. But also the possibility of desecration - either accidental or deliberate.
4. Having grown up in the old tradition - I like it the old way.
5. Absolutely ! There’s a time and a place for everything. You don’t hear religious music at a circus - you don’t invite clowns to perform at Mass. As an example but easy answer. (And this comes from someone who once played guitar at “hootenanny” Masses.) Same goes for music and behavior. Give me the old hymns / preferably in Latin but lots in English that are reverent. The older ones. WHY or WHY do people have such difficulty understanding that every atmosphere / situation - has its time and place? Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is for reverence. You kneel, you pray, you meditate - on Who is at the altar - Who it is Who waited for you to come - at least, for that one brief hour a week.

I’ve noticed that by the time I found this thread - there were five pages in reply…sorry, for running on !
Wishing you all a Blessed Easter. He is risen. Alleluia !

 

[ljubim]

There are just questions in my mind: when the Mass is in OF, is it required to receive the Holy Communion with the hands. I remember receiving my First Holy Communion, it is not in Latin, it is in OF and we were kneeling one by one. Afterwards, we received the Communion on Tongue.

We don’t have to judge one’s level of belief through what we see and I think it’s improper. Now don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against the Catholics who wants Traditional observance. I would like to see women in mantillas, but that doesn’t mean they’re holier or their souls are better than those who chose not to wear the veils who are living chastely.

I don’t think it’s good to have the “holier-than-thou” attitude.

Thanks, I really try not to, these are just my observations from a pretty progressive parish. From what I’ve seen, when people really are devout, it shows outwardly… a show such as raising up your arms or wrongly covering your head won’t last for long if it’s not real, stuff like that is really embarrassing where I’m from, and only lasts when God’s behind it.

What you say confuses me - Pope Benedict celebrates the OF and people kneel and receive on the tongue. I know “this is America” and we don’t like that kind of stuff, but it’s completely allowed…

Welcome back - I’ve been away, too - but not due to Lent. I’ve identified your questions and will answer accordingly:

1. Scarey thought, isn’t it? Novus Ordo or Tridentine - isn’t the Mass ABOUT the Presence of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament? (Novus Ordo just approaches it in more modern manner?) My first knowledge about Tridentine vs. Novus was a lecture where the priest said it was possible there was no presence with newly-introduced style of Consecration. A question was raised that Sister Lucy (one of children at Fatima) prayed before The Blessed Sacrament - to which was answered, “even saints make mistakes”…a puzzlement for those trying to make correct decisions and fearing anethema.
2. I’m sure there are many.
3. I think it’s more that we are not worthy to handle Our Lord’s Body. (Lord, I am not worthy to receive You.) That’s the reason for the priest’s consecrated hands. But also the possibility of desecration - either accidental or deliberate.
4. Having grown up in the old tradition - I like it the old way.
5. Absolutely ! There’s a time and a place for everything. You don’t hear religious music at a circus - you don’t invite clowns to perform at Mass. As an example but easy answer. (And this comes from someone who once played guitar at “hootenanny” Masses.) Same goes for music and behavior. Give me the old hymns / preferably in Latin but lots in English that are reverent. The older ones. WHY or WHY do people have such difficulty understanding that every atmosphere / situation - has its time and place? Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is for reverence. You kneel, you pray, you meditate - on Who is at the altar - Who it is Who waited for you to come - at least, for that one brief hour a week.

I’ve noticed that by the time I found this thread - there were five pages in reply…sorry, for running on !
Wishing you all a Blessed Easter. He is risen. Alleluia !

Haha, there’s not five pages, there’s not even five replies Thanks for your reply though Somewhere on AAA, CAF assures us that as long as the words “This is my body” are said, and the host is the correct kind, we’ve got the Real Presence, no matter how awful and painful His surroundings. I know… I seem like your standard TLM-er but I’ve only been to two, that’s just how profound an effect they had on me.

The little story about somebody calling adoration a mistake… that’s really making me think!! That’s just like that one quote I posted about how people are embarrassed about showing reverence to Our Lord… wow

 

[At_Trent]

Look back and think of the many, many times you have passed by me in the Tabernacle – how lovingly I have watched you approach, thrilled at your coming, … and how sadly I have watched you pass me by with not so much as a silent greeting, a genuflection or even a bow.

It’s sad. I see it at every Mass I attend that offers the Blood of Christ (if my mind wanders from where it should be). Of those who only receive the Host, perhaps 1 in 10 will acknowledge the precious Blood as they pass by on the way back to the pew.

Kyrie eleison

 

[ljubim]

It’s sad. I see it at every Mass I attend that offers the Blood of Christ (if my mind wanders from where it should be). Of those who only receive the Host, perhaps 1 in 10 will acknowledge the precious Blood as they pass by on the way back to the pew.

Kyrie eleison

I know I am one of those sometimes Thanks for pointing that out, I will keep this in mind!

I think one of the reasons is that having just received the Precious Body, two seconds later you’re thinking of having Our Lord in you, not so much next to you. Personally I book it to get back to my pew and back on my knees

 

[ThomasEugene]

I was refering to this part:

Think about it… people go to the TLM exasperated at what they see as a lack of reverence, or not enough reverence, in the OF… People receive the Eucharist on the tongue because they couldn’t bear to lose a crumb of the Precious Body, or in humility that their hands are unworthy to hold God

and I was just thinking (but I might be wrong) that you might be saying that the OF obliges the faithful to receive Christ through hands.

I don’t know what a progressive parish means. Probably I couldn’t tell because I live in a country with 90% Catholics, and all the traditions are kept (some wear the mantillas, genuflect, bow before receiving the communion.)

 

[whatischarity]

We got to stop judging based on actions. Holy week just passed and I am remininded that the Chief Priests would not go in to where Pilate was because of fear of defilement. The tongue is as filthy as the hands. One thing Vatican II has proven to me is that Catholics are unready to be led by the spirit and respond primarily to the letter of the law. Thank goodness God loves us so much else Catholic would surely have gone the way of his Chosen People long ago.

 

[archangel04]

We got to stop judging based on actions. Holy week just passed and I am remininded that the Chief Priests would not go in to where Pilate was because of fear of defilement. The tongue is as filthy as the hands. One thing Vatican II has proven to me is that Catholics are unready to be led by the spirit and respond primarily to the letter of the law. Thank goodness God loves us so much else Catholic would surely have gone the way of his Chosen People long ago.

 

[At_Trent]

I know I am one of those sometimes Thanks for pointing that out, I will keep this in mind!

I think one of the reasons is that having just received the Precious Body, two seconds later you’re thinking of having Our Lord in you, not so much next to you. Personally I book it to get back to my pew and back on my knees

No problem friend. Actually you have to be careful or you’ll get run over lol. The person behind you may not be expecting you to stop and make a profound bow. Just anything to acknowledge the Real Presence as one passes. I usually put my hand over my heart and bow slightly as I walk by.

 

[SunnaB16]

We got to stop judging based on actions.

We shouldnt judge individuals; but the sad truth is that there has been a decrease in reverence, and a loss of belief in the Real Presence. So overall, the externals betray the internals; and at the TLM, regard for the Real Presence is stronger. If the OF were properly celebrated, things would be a lot better. Chucking out the Communion Rails was a tragedy. What was the excuse for it ?... and it cant be blamed on Vatican II.
A priests hands are consecrated; our hands arent. Most adults have forgotten our Lords words about becoming like little children, so theyre not prepared to humble themselves to be fed like little children. “We`re BIG people, now!”

If anyone is narked by that: this is in “Traditional Catholicism”.

 

[At_Trent]

We got to stop judging based on actions. Holy week just passed and I am remininded that the Chief Priests would not go in to where Pilate was because of fear of defilement. The tongue is as filthy as the hands. One thing Vatican II has proven to me is that Catholics are unready to be led by the spirit and respond primarily to the letter of the law. Thank goodness God loves us so much else Catholic would surely have gone the way of his Chosen People long ago.

I certainly agree, because if one is raised not knowing better, then he/she is not to blame really.

I must say that I think COTT is the way we should receive though. I love my Papa BXVI for his example

 

[whatischarity]

I agree with you and never in my life have I received communion in the hand and yet the fact remains that both approaches are acceptable to Jesus and if I think that I am somehow better or more reverent than my fellow Catholics than I have a far bigger and more personal problem as is detailed well in Jesus book in the parable of the pharisee and publican. It is my opinion that a diminished sense of reverence to the Blessed Sacrament is due to the inner dispositions and priorities of we Roman Catholics.

 

[ConservativeOne]

Sorry for mis-reading the amount of replies. Hence, evidence I’ve been away TOO long !

What I find interesting - and wonder if anyone else noticed - is how The Blessed Sacrament is referred to as “the Host”. I know this is correct / okay. But - perhaps due to my old-fashioned ways / pre-Vatican II upbringing – I tend to say “The Blessed Sacrament” and find it odd reading it otherwise referred to in a Traditional column. I’m NOT criticizing, so please don’t get angry with me - but just wondering if anyone else felt the same?

 

[cecilia97]

There are just questions in my mind: when the Mass is in OF, is it required to receive the Holy Communion with the hands.

Absolutely not. I attend the OF and receive on the tongue. Maybe 30% of the parish does so. Some of us ladies also wear head covering. …and I notice that these practices are increasing. The last time I visited my parents’ parish about 150 miles away, I was no longer the only woman wearing head covering, and the priest was not surprised when I received on the tongue (like the slightly humorous reaction I had the time before!)

Some in OF parishes, especially the ones blessed to have Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration, have a **deep reverence for and belief in **Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. Thanks be to God!

I think the EF may draw people who are already devout. I’m not convinced it creates devout Catholics. But both forms are ways we can worship and encounter Our Lord.

 

[choy]

1. I think it’s more that we are not worthy to handle Our Lord’s Body. (Lord, I am not worthy to receive You.) That’s the reason for the priest’s consecrated hands. But also the possibility of desecration - either accidental or deliberate.

if our hands are not worthy to handle our Lord’s Body, then what makes any other part of our body more worthy? are sins localized to the particular body part that did the sin? don’t we win in whole?