A unified Catholic voice in politics

[Captain_America]

DON’T talk about parties or politicians! OK?

What kind of core or kernel or rallying point needs to be developed before Catholics can drop current party affiliation and identify as Catholic voters in a Catholic party?

One strategy used successfully in the past has been the development of a third party, which usually has a start by endorsing specific candidates of the existing parties.

It’s hardly unrealistic to think of the demise of the current parties. Each has only a tiny percentage of supporters truly devoted to them, the hardcore.

Would you identify as a Catholic Party member?

 

[Peebo]

How do you define a Catholic Party…even on CAF you have varying opinions on social issues…Catholics in general don’t even follow church teachings on many moral isues…abortion…contraception…same sex marriage…homosexuality…divorce…gay rights etc…unfortunately we are going/gone the same way as the rest of the world…and that includes so called “Catholic countries”…those governments and most of the populations have become secular societies in there social and moral outlooks…the US is probably the last country where these things are even major issues anymore…it would be nice to think we could all unite as Catholics and form a united Catholic party though…but??

 

[Neofight]

How do you define a Catholic Party…even on CAF you have varying opinions on social issues…Catholics in general don’t even follow church teachings on many moral isues…abortion…contraception…same sex marriage…homosexuality…divorce…gay rights etc…unfortunately we are going/gone the same way as the rest of the world…and that includes so called “Catholic countries”…those governments and most of the populations have become secular societies in there social and moral outlooks…the US is probably the last country where these things are even major issues anymore…it would be nice to think we could all unite as Catholics and form a united Catholic party though…but??

Yeah, I agree…i can hear extreme right Catholic Party members calling those in the Catholic Party as “Cinos” (catholic in name only) as some far right wing GOP members call others “Rinos”.

 

[christofirst]

It is a nice wish, but I don’t see it happening either. Look at Catholics outside of politics. Some feel called to intense social action, while others feel drawn to prayer in seclusion. Some want only the liturgies of the old days, and others are open to change. The Church is all-inclusive, but we are all not of a like mind. Conservatives need liberals, and vice-versa, both in matters of faith and politics.

I wish we could all agree on the essentials: the right to life from womb to tomb, and the sanctity of marriage between one man and woman, and the freedom to live our faith without outside interference, to name a few. Sadly, even this does not seem likely any time soon.

Think honestly, though, and you will have to admit that whoever starts this “Unified Catholic Party” will inevitably bring along their own biases with them - things that are not strictly defined as a matter of faith. They will want less government, or more government, depending on their view of the role of government - and the Church allows considerable leeway regarding this, despite what individuals here may claim. I doubt we will ever come to such a consensus, which is not so bad since it forces us to work together and find common ground.

 

[Tom_Baum]

“My Kingdom is NOT of this world”, didn’t someone say something like this a while back?

If “it” doesn’t come from within, what is forced from the outside doesn’t even come close to being “it”.

I suppose that I look at “freedom of religion” differently than some others, to me it doesn’t mean that I can have freedom of religion and everyone else can have my religion and my religion only but that everyone can have whatever religion or non-religion that they want as long as neither of us forces ours on anyone else.

 

[RC_Sojourner]

There have been Catholic political movements in the past, so its myopic to say that they could never happen again in the future.

I would say that the “third way” of economics would have to be given a primacy of place in a Catholic party *. We can’t just adopt some aspects of capitalism and some aspects of socialism. But, employ the economic teachings of the Church: Distributism, Subsidiarity, promotion of a rural-agrarian way of life, empowering family owned and community owned business in order to see a decline in both the power of governments and corporations. Those things are all heavily supported in Catholic economic teaching, regardless of what people here think.

What the OP is talking about isn’t a pipe dream. All you need is to first defeat the two party system, and once they collapse, then there will be a huge void. And, if Catholics want their voice to be heard, they’re going to have to choose some party. There would obviously be room for a Catholic party.

As there would be room for a Green party, a Communist party, and every other party that countries like the Netherlands has. The Netherlands currently has 11 parties with seats, and the Netherlands is a country of only around 16 million people. Imagine how many political viewpoints could actually have enough traction in the United States to gain seats here?*

 

[Inisfallen]

There have been Catholic political movements in the past, so its myopic to say that they could never happen again in the future.

I would say that the “third way” of economics would have to be given a primacy of place in a Catholic party *. We can’t just adopt some aspects of capitalism and some aspects of socialism. But, employ the economic teachings of the Church: Distributism, Subsidiarity, promotion of a rural-agrarian way of life, empowering family owned and community owned business in order to see a decline in both the power of governments and corporations. Those things are all heavily supported in Catholic economic teaching, regardless of what people here think.

Rick Santorum and Alan Keyes would be on board in a heartbeat… hypothetically. *

Maybe, maybe not. It’s a fascinating question, and I’d love to discuss it, and where current politicians might fit into a Catholic party, and especially where Catholic economics would fall along the current political spectrum, but the OP said “DON’T talk about parties or politicians! OK?,” so this probably isn’t the thread for that discussion.
RC Sojourner;11684266:

As there would be room for a Green party, a Communist party, and every other party that countries like the Netherlands has. The Netherlands currently has 11 parties with seats, and the Netherlands is a country of only around 16 million people. Imagine how many political viewpoints could actually have enough traction in the United States to gain seats here?

Yes, but the Netherlands has proportional representation. Hard to achieve that kind of result (which I think might not be a bad thing) in a winner-take-all system.

 

[RC_Sojourner]

but the OP said “DON’T talk about parties or politicians! OK?,” so this probably isn’t the thread for that discussion.

Oops, that’s my bad. I couldn’t resist giving those two particular gentlemen a brief shoutout

Inisfallen:

Yes, but the Netherlands has proportional representation. Hard to achieve that kind of result (which I think might not be a bad thing) in a winner-take-all system.

Oh, well I definitely don’t believe in a winner-take-all system. Definitely not. It was unfortunate, the U.K. had a vote recently on weather they wanted to replace their system, which they call “first past the post”, but which is basically the same as our American winner-take-all system. And, the referendum failed.

Yes… it happened in 2011 apparently, heres a brief blurb from wikipedia: “On a turnout of 42.2 percent, 68 percent voted No and 32 percent voted Yes. Only 10 of the 440 counting districts recorded ‘Yes’ votes above 50 percent; six in London, and those in Oxford, Cambridge and Edinburgh Central and Glasgow Kelvin in Scotland”

 

[frobert]

How do you define a Catholic Party…even on CAF you have varying opinions on social issues…Catholics in general don’t even follow church teachings on many moral isues…abortion…contraception…same sex marriage…homosexuality…divorce…gay rights etc…unfortunately we are going/gone the same way as the rest of the world…and that includes so called “Catholic countries”…those governments and most of the populations have become secular societies in there social and moral outlooks…the US is probably the last country where these things are even major issues anymore…it would be nice to think we could all unite as Catholics and form a united Catholic party though…but??

How wonderful it is that we have such a diversity of opinions. If everyone had the same opinion not many people would return to CAF.more than once or twice.

 

[Captain_America]

I doubt that members of the current parties are all in agreement on every issue.

I think the Catechism is a pretty fair start in terms of “platform.”

 

[Hobbes42]

It would never happen, seeing as Catholics are already divided into several camps.
It would be a wonderful pipedream however…

 

[Ender]

I wish we could all agree on the essentials: the right to life from womb to tomb, and the sanctity of marriage between one man and woman, and the freedom to live our faith without outside interference, to name a few.

The parties are already divided on the essentials. That hasn’t mattered much in the past.

Think honestly, though, and you will have to admit that whoever starts this “Unified Catholic Party” will inevitably bring along their own biases with them - things that are not strictly defined as a matter of faith. They will want less government, or more government, depending on their view of the role of government - and the Church allows considerable leeway regarding this, despite what individuals here may claim.

This is why there could never be such a thing as a Catholic party: the church has no specific position on most political issues, nor should we expect to find any. The resolution of practical problems is a lay responsibility and we are free (within broad guidelines) to choose as we see fit. We may support or oppose: amnesty for illegals, raising the minimum wage, Obamacare (less the HHS provision), the Ryan budget proposal, etc. It is illusory to believe the church can answer these questions for us.

Ender

 

[buffalo]

It would have to be the orthodox Catholic Party (OCP). Cafeteria Catholics can have their own party. (CCP).

 

[Captain_America]

Re; division among church members. The Catechism pulls people together and on the same page.

re: “no specific Catholic position”, this seems only partly true. Certainly there are Christian precepts that are apt to specific situations, although which have no formal Church endorsement.

Not a dream. It just means people knowing the Catechism and being will to come together. The church really does offer a great vision of both the individual and social good.

In the end, what we’re missing in 2014 is for individuals, a purpose or meaning in life (our current institutions say nothing, woefully) and for institutions, a sense of the common good.

 

[Ender]

Certainly there are Christian precepts that are apt to specific situations, although which have no formal Church endorsement.

Pick any political issue at all (that is not first a moral issue, e.g. abortion) and explain what specific solution is demanded by our faith. This is the problem: there is not a single one about which you can say “The proposal and not that one.” What you are left with are generic guidelines like feed the poor and specific proposals - like food stamps - that you think will work, but there is no rebuttal to the person who believes they cause more problems than they solve. He may be wrong but in no sense can he be said to be immoral, which, if food stamps are actually required according to church teaching, would have to be true.

What we end up with by taking this road are not arguments about what works but uncharitable assertions about who is good and who is evil.

Ender

 

[Captain_America]

Pick any political issue at all (that is not first a moral issue, e.g. abortion) and explain what specific solution is demanded by our faith. This is the problem: there is not a single one about which you can say “The proposal and not that one.” What you are left with are generic guidelines like feed the poor and specific proposals - like food stamps - that you think will work, but there is no rebuttal to the person who believes they cause more problems than they solve. He may be wrong but in no sense can he be said to be immoral, which, if food stamps are actually required according to church teaching, would have to be true.

What we end up with by taking this road are not arguments about what works but uncharitable assertions about who is good and who is evil.

Ender

Nah. Not so tough. And recognize that parties within themselves have normal dissension and discussion as well. The abortion issue is clear enough and so are other ones.

 

[Ender]

Nah. Not so tough. And recognize that parties within themselves have normal dissension and discussion as well. The abortion issue is clear enough and so are other ones.

If I understand this you are saying it isn’t hard to find an issue about which the church teaches “This position and not that one.” Aside from the obvious few (abortion, euthanasia…) what “others” are you referring to? As I said before: pick any specific proposal for any political issue and make the case that church doctrine obliges us to support one side against the other. You have the entire panoply of issues to choose from (immigration, health care, the budget, gun control…). Pick any one of them and identify what specific policy we are morally required to support.

Ender

 

[Mulligan2]

There is no chance for a “Catholic Party” in USA politics. The positions would be politically untenable - i.e. opposition to the death penalty, opposition to abortion even in cases of rape, redistributionist economic policies, etc. So current evangelical voters would not vote for the Catholic Party candidate, the vast majority of Democratic voters would not, free-market capitalists would not, libertarians would not, etc., etc., etc. A “Catholic Party” would be a fringe political party at best. If you think my analysis is incorrect, please explain why.

 

[Ender]

There is no chance for a “Catholic Party” in USA politics. The positions would be politically untenable - i.e. opposition to the death penalty, opposition to abortion even in cases of rape, redistributionist economic policies, etc. So current evangelical voters would not vote for the Catholic Party candidate, the vast majority of Democratic voters would not, free-market capitalists would not, libertarians would not, etc., etc., etc. A “Catholic Party” would be a fringe political party at best. If you think my analysis is incorrect, please explain why.

It is not just that some positions would be untenable, it is that the church has no position on most political issues. You may think the church supports redistributionist economic policies but the fact is that she has no position at all on any economic policy. She has guidelines, but turning those guidelines into concrete proposals involves prudential judgments about which Catholics may freely disagree. We may support or oppose the Ryan budget proposal, amnesty for illegals, universal health care, gun control laws,… There is no Catholic position on any of this, so there could never be a Catholic political party.

Ender

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

This is a great idea…

But

Why limit it to local politics…why not the WORLD?

I can see it now…we, American Catholics, could call ourselves **THE CRUSADERS **

Our goal would be world wide evangelization and the establishment of a total world government. Of course all political and legislative power would be seated at the Vatican. We could call it THE NEW HOLY ROMAN WORLD EMPIRE.

This could be God’s will, but it won’t happen overnight. We better start working NOW! There will be a lot of politicking and fund raising. Let’s start by pledging support to: Zoltan’s Crusade c\o my private messaging here at the forum.