A valid and licit Mass?

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I don’t disagree that there are some places like this, I said MOST Religious Houses and Religious Orders will welcome visitors.

Masses celebrated by a priest who has permission to celebrate Mass from the local Bishop (or equivelant) are valid and licit.

You are trying to point out the .01% exception of my general statement. Any Mass celebrated in a local parish church is always open to the faithful, which was the basis of the original question.

Yes I am pointing out the exception which you seemed to say was non-existent, but we can agree, all Masses celebrated by a priest with permission from the Bishop are valid and licit and all Masses at a parish Church should be open to those who wish to attend.

Just a question, does this include a wedding? Can I go to my local parish and attend a wedding Mass if I am not invited?

Just to add, I know of a prayer group that has a private center with a dedicated chapel. They have had private Masses celebrated. Some of these were celebrated by a member of SOLT, this is the community that Fr Corapi belongs to.

 

[Aramis]

Yes I am pointing out the exception which you seemed to say was non-existent, but we can agree, all Masses celebrated by a priest with permission from the Bishop are valid and licit and all Masses at a parish Church should be open to those who wish to attend.

Just a question, does this include a wedding? Can I go to my local parish and attend a wedding Mass if I am not invited?

Yes, you can. over a dozen uninvited members of the faithful showed for my wedding.

Any who have access to the chapel may attend any mass said at that chapel, and if properly prepared and otherwise eligible, must be admitted to Communion as well.

 

[SMHW]

Every Mass is a Liturgy, public prayer of the Church. This Mass does not have to be publicized or announced, but nothing would prohibit any Catholic from walking in and participating if they happen by. No one should go running up and say “this is a private Mass, get out of here!”

This thread was getting a bit off track and I actually agree with this.

Basically, a “private” Mass would only be private in the sense that there were civil While there *might *berestrictions on access to the location where the Mass was being held in the case of an event which impacts public safety, a Mass requested by a family is not unlikely to be one of those cases.

The Mass is public to anyone allowed to be on the premises.

 

[puzzleannie]

none of these discussions about private property have anything whatever to do with OP’s question, unless she comes back and states otherwise

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Yes I am pointing out the exception which you seemed to say was non-existent, but we can agree, all Masses celebrated by a priest with permission from the Bishop are valid and licit and all Masses at a parish Church should be open to those who wish to attend.

Just a question, does this include a wedding? Can I go to my local parish and attend a wedding Mass if I am not invited?

Just to add, I know of a prayer group that has a private center with a dedicated chapel. They have had private Masses celebrated. Some of these were celebrated by a member of SOLT, this is the community that Fr Corapi belongs to.

Yes, a wedding Mass is a Public Sacrament, all Sacraments are celebrated within the context of Community (except of course Confession). However this Sacrament is in many places also celebrated with a Community aspect within a Parish Reconciliation Service. A S.O.L.T priest can celebrate Mass there valdily and licitly, if he has the permission of the local Bishop.

 

[choy]

Our parish Church has 10 Masses every Sunday and only 3 priests.

my former parish here in Vancouver had 2 priests and they say about 7 masses every Sunday, plus the anticipated mass on Saturday. so techinically its 8 Sunday masses between 2 priests

i think the limit of 2 masses per day for a priest has been lifted, given there is a lack of priests in the world today

 

[choy]

I am sure your Bishop is well aware of this. He has either arranged for a priest from a neighboring parish to help out, or he has given permission for the extra Masses. Hopefully your parish is praying hard for an increase in priestly vocations – especially since you probably have a large population of boys and men with such a huge parish.

i see that he’s living in the Philippines so i can say that there are just so many people going to masses there its even impossible to move priests around. even if a priest from another parish helps out, he’ll also probably be saying his 3rd or 4th mass by the time he gets to the other parish

 

[Mrs_Sally]

i see that he’s living in the Philippines so i can say that there are just so many people going to masses there its even impossible to move priests around. even if a priest from another parish helps out, he’ll also probably be saying his 3rd or 4th mass by the time he gets to the other parish

Yes, I see that now too. So the bishop is completely aware of the situation in his diocese and the OP (and we too) would do best to pray regularly for vocations.

 

[kissakat]

The couple in question were married in a Catholic Church but because his parents objected so much they did not have a Mass. After he converted four years ago, they both wished they had had a Mass said at their wedding. Now about to celebrate their 40th anniversary, they would like to repeat their vows, or something suitable for an already married couple, at a Mass. However she is slightly disabled and a very shy and private person and does not want to do this at a Sunday Mass in front of the entire congregation. They do not object if someone other than family and friends comes to the Mass. The priest agreed but he pastors at two churches and it is very likely he will have to say Mass more than 2 times that day. ( At regular sunday Masses couples usually just stand up while the priest says something nice about them and the whole congregation claps. They want to say vows at a Mass). Should she question his willingness to say “yes”?

 

[FrDavid96]

The couple in question were married in a Catholic Church but because his parents objected so much they did not have a Mass. After he converted four years ago, they both wished they had had a Mass said at their wedding. Now about to celebrate their 40th anniversary, they would like to repeat their vows, or something suitable for an already married couple, at a Mass. However she is slightly disabled and a very shy and private person and does not want to do this at a Sunday Mass in front of the entire congregation. They do not object if someone other than family and friends comes to the Mass. The priest agreed but he pastors at two churches and it is very likely he will have to say Mass more than 2 times that day. ( At regular sunday Masses couples usually just stand up while the priest says something nice about them and the whole congregation claps. They want to say vows at a Mass). Should she question his willingness to say “yes”?

No, she shouldn’t question his willingness to say yes. There’s nothing illicit about what you’re describing. There’s nothing wrong or improper, or anything else–on the contrary I see everything good in what you’re describing. Some dioceses have policies against weddings on Sundays (which is why the issue of a convalidation matters, but that doesn’t apply here). Since the priest has agreed to do it, I can’t see any reason to go any further in questioning it. In fact, the question itself puzzles me. Since the priest agreed to do it, why would you think there would be a problem?

 

[kissakat]

Forgot to mention- the Mass would be said in the Church building in the afternoon.

 

[FrDavid96]

Forgot to mention- the Mass would be said in the Church building in the afternoon.

Kissakat,

That wouldn’t change anything.

Please understand that given the fact that the priest has agreed to do this, you can safely say that there’s nothing illicit or improper about it. We can speculate on all kinds of things that would be mere imagination; things like “well, it wouldn’t be valid if the priest uses grape juice instead of wine” or “it wouldn’t be licit if the priest uses the Mass text for Ash Wednesday” etc. etc. but nothing that would make this event either invalid or illicit has come up in your posts. Earlier, I brought up the issue of a priest being limited to 3 Masses on a Sunday only to make the point (which I admit I did not articulate) that it wouldn’t be fair to the priest to ask him to add another Sunday Mass which he shouldn’t be doing–but since he’s agreed to do it, that is not an issue (he’s already determined that given his schedule, he can do this, so that’s not relevant) It seems like you are worrying about something that is really a non-issue.

Again, I can’t see anything in your own descriptions of this event that would make this even remotely questionable.

 

[SMHW]

Forgot to mention- the Mass would be said in the Church building in the afternoon.

Unless there is something we are missing I don’t know why this would be a problem. Parishes schedule extra masses for all kinds of reasons, on all days of the week. If the parish wants lots of people to be there they will publicize it. In this case they probably won’t. Since it’s going to be in the Church it will not be a private Mass, even if very few people know about it.

 

[Aramis]

In general:

• 2 masses a day, 3 on sunday, is the limit for a given priest, unless he has the bishop’s permission. (canon law.) Getting the exception is the priest’s problem, not the faithful’s problem.
• A convalidation can be done inside or outside the mass.
• A renewal of vows is different from a convalidation, and is actively discouraged if it would look like a new marriage ceremony; a public reaffirmation of marriage vows should be done outside the mass to avoid confusion.
• A specific blessing during the mass of a long standing marital union exists. It does not have the couple renew their vows, and the priest imparts a blessing upon them.

 

[choy]

Yes, I see that now too. So the bishop is completely aware of the situation in his diocese and the OP (and we too) would do best to pray regularly for vocations.

yes we should. especially that the Philippines has a booming population, more and more children are being born into Catholic families. and despite a growing number of Protestant Churches and other religions, the number of Catholics still grow a lot. more masses, more churches needed, thus more priests needed.

in fact, not too long ago after the death of Cardinal Sin (yes, his surname is Sin) that the Archdiocese of Manila was split into two, because of the number of Catholics in the metropolis. now we have the Archdiocese of Manila to the west and south, and the Archdiocese of Cubao to the North and East.