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frnate
Guest
Yes, I would never use a crucifix, and have never seen it done in my ten years as a Catholic.
Peace,
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Peace,
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palmas85
Guest
True but they aren’t. And I’ll repeat, I’ve never been to one that was. They all have had additions, especially the altar call which seems to be part and parcel of the Life Teen experience
I was laughing however at the statements made about the incredible purity and liturgical correctness of the Life Teen Masses, not at the practices you find in them. For those I feel at times like crying.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
Our parish uses a crucifix, and the people go up one at a time and kiss the feet of Jesus on the cross. Is that not correct?
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THurifer2
Guest
I am sure it is OK in fact I am not sure of the norm but I have never belonged to a parish that had a corpus during veneration.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
I wonder why. After all it is Good Friday, and Jesus hung on the cross on Good Friday. Can anyone tell me why there is not supposed to be a corpus on the cross for Good Friday veneration?
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ThuribleGuy45
Guest
The triple processional chant leading up to the Good Friday veneration is “This is the WOOD of the cross, on which hung the Savior of the world.” (Emphasis mine - and notice the past tense.) There were several threads on this during and aftyer Holy Week. While there seems to be some variation, most parishes seemed to venerate a bare cross. All the local parishes I’m aware of use a bare cross. I’ve always taken the symbolism to imply that we’re venerating after Jesus has been taken doen and entombed, but I’ve never read anything official on that point.
I’ve also seen a number of parishes dress and drape the cross after veneration - which wouldn’t be appropriate for a cross with a Corpus.
Bingo. My old home town. I “merely” meant Roman Catholic because on these forums that’s what the term “Catholic” usually means.
Re: venerating the cross on Good Friday–I can’t remember where I read it (it might have been in OSV’s “Catholic Answers” edited by Fr. Peter Stravinskas) but I thought it was supposed to be crucifix that is venerated unless a relic of the true cross was available for veneration. I know our parish always uses a crucifix. Let me do some research!
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La-Petite-Fleur
Guest
Sounds like you found a “progressive” parish. Surely the bishop knows about the parishes in his diocese. It is unfortunately being allowed. Why these many progressive parishes, convents, and retreat centers are allowed to continue as they are is far beyond me. If you do write any letters, perhaps in addition to informing about this progressive parish, maybe it would also be good to ask why such things are allowed. I’d like to know why disloyalty in the disguise of “progressive Catholicism” is being allowed. Unless there are 3 kinds of Catholicism… traditional (loyal), moderate, and progressive (basically pagan at times). If that’s the case, then that would mean the church is being subjected to moral relativism. God forbid. Good luck though, and thank God your home parish is a good, loyal one. It could have been worse. Thank God it wasn’t…
I just read some of the other answers again. It’s pretty sad when a progressive parish can’t be recognized from some strange schismatic church. Sorry about your experience :hug1:.
I just read some of the other answers again. It’s pretty sad when a progressive parish can’t be recognized from some strange schismatic church. Sorry about your experience :hug1:.
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Cat
Guest
palmas85, come to our parish’s Life Teen Mass.
It is liturgically correct. Our Bishop would stop it if it wasn’t. He is on liturgical abuses like a cat on catnip.
And yes, he is one of the Bishops who has authorized Latin Masses in our diocese, so he’s not some wild, liberal modernist. His doctorate is in Canon Law. Check him out:
rockforddiocese.org/bishop/Default.htm
Altar call? I have no idea what you’re talking about. ??? Never seen one at our Life Teen Mass.
The only difference in our Life Teen Mass and the regular traditional Mass is the music. That’s it. Everything else is the same. All the responses, the prayers, the liturgy–everything.
I don’t appreciate being made fun of, BTW. I don’t appreciate the implication that the teenagers in my parish are foisting an “abuse” on the rest of the parishioners. And I especially don’t appreciate the implication that my priests and bishops are allowing a liturgical abuse by allowing Life Teen Mass in our parish.
Just because you’ve had bad experiences is not a reason to tear apart a very good Mass. Did you even bother to visit the link that I provided to check out the methods of the Life Teen movement?
A note of reconciliation from you would be very pleasant.
It is liturgically correct. Our Bishop would stop it if it wasn’t. He is on liturgical abuses like a cat on catnip.
And yes, he is one of the Bishops who has authorized Latin Masses in our diocese, so he’s not some wild, liberal modernist. His doctorate is in Canon Law. Check him out:
rockforddiocese.org/bishop/Default.htm
Altar call? I have no idea what you’re talking about. ??? Never seen one at our Life Teen Mass.
The only difference in our Life Teen Mass and the regular traditional Mass is the music. That’s it. Everything else is the same. All the responses, the prayers, the liturgy–everything.
I don’t appreciate being made fun of, BTW. I don’t appreciate the implication that the teenagers in my parish are foisting an “abuse” on the rest of the parishioners. And I especially don’t appreciate the implication that my priests and bishops are allowing a liturgical abuse by allowing Life Teen Mass in our parish.
Just because you’ve had bad experiences is not a reason to tear apart a very good Mass. Did you even bother to visit the link that I provided to check out the methods of the Life Teen movement?
A note of reconciliation from you would be very pleasant.
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cathyf
Guest
Sunday was the feast of the birth of St. John the Baptist – was the penitential rite a renewal of baptismal vows? Because then the profession of faith would not be repeated later.
If the Gloria were sung in a non-European language you way well not have recognized it. (Or parish has a a priest on loan from Tanzania. Our children’s choir has learned and used several Swahili arrangements of mass parts. The church is not only Catholic, but catholic as well.)
If the Gloria were sung in a non-European language you way well not have recognized it. (Or parish has a a priest on loan from Tanzania. Our children’s choir has learned and used several Swahili arrangements of mass parts. The church is not only Catholic, but catholic as well.)
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agapewolf
Guest
The “altar call” you refer to should not happen anymore (even though Cardinal arinze told LIFETEEN they could apply for an indult).
LT told the parishes to stop…years ago. It is not part of lifeteen anymore. If there is a parish that still does it, it does it without the encouragement of Lifeteen.
LT told the parishes to stop…years ago. It is not part of lifeteen anymore. If there is a parish that still does it, it does it without the encouragement of Lifeteen.
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palmas85
Guest
The altar call as I call it, because I can’t think of another thing to call it, is the process where the congregation is invited, induced and encouraged to come forth to the sanctuary, link hands and pray the prayers of the consecration together with the Priest. Please don’t be intellectually dishonest and say it does not happen, because it does, often,** AND** I might add has at each and every teen Mass I have ever attended and that is quite a few believe me. Actually when I went through Catechist training that particular practice was extolled by the instructors, a Priest, Deacon and Director of Religious Education at the parish and three purported representatives from life teen. They all said it helped to bring the congregation closer to Christ.
Since I have never been to a life teen Mass in your diocese, I can’t speak as to whether or not what you are saying is true. And alas, that is the only way to determine whether or not the Mass is indeed celebrated properly. Merely going to a web site proves nothing, absolutely nothing as the website can say one thing and the reality be something entirely different. Sorry to tell you that, but it is true.
But if I am ever in your area, I will stop by and check it out. However, be aware that out here on the west coast , life teen , still embraces many of the elements that have made it the pariah that it is in many places.
As far as a note of reconciliation, I have done nothing that merits such a thing. You stated your alleged experience. I stated mine.
Best wishes and before you say it I will say it for you.
PALMAS85 IS MEAN SPIRITED, UNCHARITABLE AND UNCIRCUMSIZED OF HEART AND EARS
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Cat
Guest
No, no, no.
That kind of “altar call” is not done at our Parish. I’ve never seen that done. We all know that only the ordained priest can say the prayer of consecration.
Our Bishop would descend upon them with wrath and call down fire if they tried that, which they wouldn’t! We have a surplus of vocations in our diocese. At least one teenager (used to play the keyboards for LifeTeen in our parish) left for the convent after graduating from high school, and is becoming a contemplative nun.
So our kids know what they’re doing, and what’s correct and what isn’t correct.
Now, I HAVE seen that the teenagers stick around after the Mass to pray for several minutes, kneeling in their pews. That’s not liturgical abuse.
I’ve also seen many of them at Adoration Chapel, often prostrate. THAT’s not abuse.
And they raised a lot of money last year doing the Car Wash for Life, and even brought kids from non-Catholic (AKA Protestant) churches to help out. THAT’s not abuse.
I am not ashamed to defend the fantastic Catholic teenagers and their leaders in my parish, and my priests and bishop. All my Cat’s claws bared and hissing! They don’t deserve to have anyone think ill of them.
That kind of “altar call” is not done at our Parish. I’ve never seen that done. We all know that only the ordained priest can say the prayer of consecration.
Our Bishop would descend upon them with wrath and call down fire if they tried that, which they wouldn’t! We have a surplus of vocations in our diocese. At least one teenager (used to play the keyboards for LifeTeen in our parish) left for the convent after graduating from high school, and is becoming a contemplative nun.
So our kids know what they’re doing, and what’s correct and what isn’t correct.
Now, I HAVE seen that the teenagers stick around after the Mass to pray for several minutes, kneeling in their pews. That’s not liturgical abuse.
I’ve also seen many of them at Adoration Chapel, often prostrate. THAT’s not abuse.
And they raised a lot of money last year doing the Car Wash for Life, and even brought kids from non-Catholic (AKA Protestant) churches to help out. THAT’s not abuse.
I am not ashamed to defend the fantastic Catholic teenagers and their leaders in my parish, and my priests and bishop. All my Cat’s claws bared and hissing! They don’t deserve to have anyone think ill of them.
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frnate
Guest
I came to Catholicism from the Baptist church via an Anglo-Catholic tradition so maybe that’s just the way it’s done there. For Good Friday Veneration I think the symbolism is more powerful if there is no corpus on the cross. Especially if the service takes place after 3:00pm. I have been to a service where a 5 or 6 foot cross, made out of rough beams is used and each person hammers a nail into it (symbolically nailing their sins to the tree) before venerating it. I wept.
Peace,
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frnate
Guest
Okay, I guess I got my feelings hurt a little over the “real” Catholic thing
I’ll try to do better.Peace,
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lizaanne
Guest
No flying fur, only pointing out that this is against the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church unless under EXTREME circumstances. Only those who are baptized and confirmed IN THE RCC may receive Holy Communion in the Catholic Church. If your place of worship is not in communion with Rome, do you even have a valid ordination? I hesitate to consider such a place Catholic until I know more. This is not intended as an insult or slight, only to point out the difference between a conservative place of worship which passes out communion to anyone baptized, and the Holy Roman Catholic Church established by Jesus Christ which operates only according to the Magisterium of the Church - no exceptions.
Just asking.
~Liza
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dessert
Guest
If you think about it, with a good priests’ direction the teens want to bring back the altar (rail, prayer, and even personal touch of God ) which was a part of the traditional. Let’s give them a chance. We had the altar rail and even candles, I remember many a time kneeling for awhile and crying and praying for others and myself so let’s try to keep an open mind for them because they have more abuse in their life as a teen and this is their way of expressing their need for the Catholic church for help. I hope the OP can get it settled for herself also. God Bless you
Dessert
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dessert
Guest
Don’t be too hard on Palm as he has probably not seen the type of dedication you describe and I have never been too that kind of mass but will look forward to seeing one someday in exactly the way you describe.
You are a good model and training ground. You seem alert for abuse of anykind which is good. In that same way we all are. God Bless You. Dessert
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agapewolf
Guest
Lifeteen has NEVER EVER promoted the altar call described here…the teens should never have said the words of consecration. that was your particular parish or diocese.
Lifeteen says it the gathering of teens around the altar should not happen anymore. They put out a video to the 1000’s of parishes they serve telling them to stop the practice.
Lifeteen says it the gathering of teens around the altar should not happen anymore. They put out a video to the 1000’s of parishes they serve telling them to stop the practice.
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palmas85
Guest
You are contradicting yourself. First you say they** NEVER p**promoted the altar call, then you say they put out a video saying to stop the practice. If they **NEVER **endorsed the practice, why did just about every place do it and then why would they put out a video saying to stop it?
It had to come from somewhere.
But I’ll take you at your word. Please direct me to a link where lifeteen explicitly says to stop this practice as well as other practices that fell outside of liturgical norms. I would like to see them for myself.
Thanks
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