"a voice from heaven"?

[catholic1seeks]

**When Jesus is baptized, what does it mean for a voice from heaven to say “This is my beloved son, with whom I am well pleased”(Mt. 3:17)

The “voice” is said to be the Father’s, but is it really a voice?

How can the heavens open (Mt. 3:16) if heaven is spiritual?

**

–Confused as usual

 

[wardrandolph]

If I’m understanding your question correctly I believe #1.The "voice was audible.#2.The Heavens opened up.We sometimes forget the spiritual has substance.Our Lord appeared after He had been crucified,died and was buried.He was physically touched by St.Thomas and then walked through a wall.I hope this helps.

 

[Nita]

This is one of the definitions for “voice” from the online Merriam Webster dictionary.
“a sound resembling or suggesting vocal utterance”

So, yes, it was a voice. John heard the sound of words that he could understand.

Probably the expression “the heavens were opened” is meant to encompass the reality that John the Baptist heard the voice of God, who is in heaven. This was not a normal occurrence. Also, he saw the Spirit descending from above, coming down from heaven - which also does not normally happen. Both events indicate an unusual communication of God in heaven with us on earth. The expression “the heavens were opened” expresses it’s unusualness - something beyond the norm.

Just my thoughts.

Nita

 

[COPLAND_3]

The heavens being opened is meant in a spiritual sense, as Theophylact says, “Adam had closed the heavens, but through Christ they are opened, so that you may learn, O reader, that when you are baptized, you, too, open the heavens.”

St. Thomas says in the Summa,

As Jerome says on Matthew 3:16-17, the heavens were opened to Christ when He was baptized, not by an unfolding of the elements, but by a spiritual vision: thus does Ezechiel relate the opening of the heavens at the beginning of his book. And Chrysostom proves this (Hom. iv in Matth.; from the supposititious Opus Imperfectum) by saying that “if the creature”–namely, heaven–“had been sundered he would not have said, ‘were opened to Him,’ since what is opened in a corporeal sense is open to all.” Hence it is said expressly (Mark 1:10) that Jesus “forthwith coming up out of the water, saw the heavens opened”; as though the opening of the heavens were to be considered as seen by Christ. Some, indeed, refer this to the corporeal vision, and say that such a brilliant light shone round about Christ when He was baptized, that the heavens seemed to be opened. It can also be referred to the imaginary vision, in which manner Ezechiel saw the heavens opened: since such a vision was formed in Christ’s imagination by the Divine power and by His rational will, so as to signify that the entrance to heaven is opened to men through baptism. Lastly, it can be referred to intellectual vision: forasmuch as Christ, when He had sanctified baptism, saw that heaven was opened to men: nevertheless He had seen before that this would be accomplished.

To get philosophical about the voice, St. Thomas explains

The Father is manifested by the voice, only as producing the voice or speaking by it. And since it is proper to the Father to produce the Word–that is, to utter or to speak–therefore was it most becoming that the Father should be manifested by a voice, because the voice designates the word. Wherefore the very voice to which the Father gave utterance bore witness to the Sonship of the Word. And just as the form of the dove, in which the Holy Ghost was made manifest, is not the Nature of the Holy Ghost, nor is the form of man in which the Son Himself was manifested, the very Nature of the Son of God, so neither does the voice belong to the Nature of the Word or of the Father who spoke. Hence (John 5:37) our Lord says: “Neither have you heard His,” i.e. the Father’s, “voice at any time, nor seen His shape.” By which words, as Chrysostom says (Hom. xl in Joan.), “He gradually leads them to the knowledge of the philosophical truth, and shows them that God has neither voice nor shape, but is above all such forms and utterances.” And just as the whole Trinity made both the dove and the human nature assumed by Christ, so also they formed the voice: yet the Father alone as speaking is manifested by the voice, just as the Son alone assumed human nature, and the Holy Ghost alone is manifested in the dove, as Augustine [Fulgentius, De Fide ad Petrum] makes evident.

 

[jean8]

**When Jesus is baptized, what does it mean for a voice from heaven to say “This is my beloved son, with whom I am well pleased”(Mt. 3:17)

The “voice” is said to be the Father’s, but is it really a voice**?

How can the heavens open (Mt. 3:16) if heaven is spiritual?

–Confused as usual

seeks,
The verse reads, Mt.3:17 "A voice from heaven said, “this is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

1 Pet.1:17 also reads "For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

God bless,
jean8

 

[Henning]

**When Jesus is baptized, what does it mean for a voice from heaven to say “This is my beloved son, with whom I am well pleased”(Mt. 3:17)

The “voice” is said to be the Father’s, but is it really a voice**?

How can the heavens open (Mt. 3:16) if heaven is spiritual?

–Confused as usual

It’s interesting to note that the **cloud **from which the Voice spoke in the transfiguration account is missing in the account of the baptism.

Matthew 17:5
“While he yet spake, behold, a** bright cloud **overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him”