A Way to God

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Abba

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Hello everyone, 🙂

Without much ado nor preparation I just decided to start this thread. I, as many of you have a lot of demand on my time and if I decide to prepare for the thread and edit here and there; it will end up in the back burner and so I decided to jump in and hope for the best. So, with my broken unedited English - here I go.

Yesterday I read the book of Jeremiah after listening to a Monsignor speak of it and about redemptive suffering in the noon Mass. All the thoughts and questions that came to me directed my attention to people who are seeking God, but are dealing whether aware or not with the ‘obstacles’ of the intellect, science, pride and self-love. I have noticed that a lot of people come to this philosophy forum that are exactly confronting those obstacles. I think it is a good thing that people respond in the terms of logic and science as the problems are presented. In this thread, however, I wish to be given the opportunity to propose, investigate, present and address the search for God in a different way. This of course with the assistance of everyone else, of course.

I think it would be a useful task to present the Catholic understanding, what is God saying in plain English regarding a way of finding Him. I say this because people are trying to find him intellectually and people are responding intellectually to the queries. There are people that need to know that God can be proven scientifically with a scientific experiment otherwise he does not exist and other who need to find that he can be proven logically or that at least his existence is not illogical. I think it would be good to step aside from those approaches and present clearly what the Bible says and give people the opportunity to at least understand a different way of finding God and present this way clearly.

Please do not accuse me of being that derogative expression used to demean someone who makes reference to the Bible. I forget what the expression is right now but it has been flung at me. The Bible can bring to light some beautiful ideas that can be very intellectual and philosophical. This thread will not entail an analysis of bible verses. What I wish to be presented here is people’s Catholic and biblical understand of a way to find God.

I hope that members, such as; Perplexity will honor me with their participation on this thread. You would have to breath and humor me for a little bit - that’s all I am asking. My understanding is that God shows us the way to find Him. It is not that faith is in conflict with science or the intellect but that God has in His Wisdom designed a way that He has determined to be best.

What is that way? Are you willing to take the time to understand it?

How can I maneuver this discussion to having a philosophical twist? 😃 Well, for one the discussion very practically belongs in this forum because it is here where people who are seeking God but are handling science and human knowledge come to. I just hope to present with the assistance of others the way Catholicism and the Bible. Many roads lead to the main road and we can discuss the fundamental principles they share. Why would God choose these vias? What are they? Where does human knowledge stand in the face of them? What about science?

Here it goes…🙂

Let’s suppose that God exists, how do you understand we can come to know Him?
 
Abba said:
Hello everyone, 🙂

Without much ado nor preparation I just decided to start this thread. I, as many of you have a lot of demand on my time and if I decide to prepare for the thread and edit here and there; it will end up in the back burner and so I decided to jump in and hope for the best. So, with my broken unedited English - here I go.

Yesterday I read the book of Jeremiah after listening to a Monsignor speak of it and about redemptive suffering in the noon Mass. All the thoughts and questions that came to me directed my attention to people who are seeking God, but are dealing whether aware or not with the ‘obstacles’ of the intellect, science, pride and self-love. I have noticed that a lot of people come to this philosophy forum that are exactly confronting those obstacles. I think it is a good thing that people respond in the terms of logic and science as the problems are presented. In this thread, however, I wish to be given the opportunity to propose, investigate, present and address the search for God in a different way. This of course with the assistance of everyone else, of course.

I think it would be a useful task to present the Catholic understanding, what is God saying in plain English regarding a way of finding Him. I say this because people are trying to find him intellectually and people are responding intellectually to the queries. There are people that need to know that God can be proven scientifically with a scientific experiment otherwise he does not exist and other who need to find that he can be proven logically or that at least his existence is not illogical. I think it would be good to step aside from those approaches and present clearly what the Bible says and give people the opportunity to at least understand a different way of finding God and present this way clearly.

Please do not accuse me of being that derogative expression used to demean someone who makes reference to the Bible. I forget what the expression is right now but it has been flung at me. The Bible can bring to light some beautiful ideas that can be very intellectual and philosophical. This thread will not entail an analysis of bible verses. What I wish to be presented here is people’s Catholic and biblical understand of a way to find God.

I hope that members, such as; Perplexity will honor me with their participation on this thread. You would have to breath and humor me for a little bit - that’s all I am asking. My understanding is that God shows us the way to find Him. It is not that faith is in conflict with science or the intellect but that God has in His Wisdom designed a way that He has determined to be best.

What is that way? Are you willing to take the time to understand it?

How can I maneuver this discussion to having a philosophical twist? 😃 Well, for one the discussion very practically belongs in this forum because it is here where people who are seeking God but are handling science and human knowledge come to. I just hope to present with the assistance of others the way Catholicism and the Bible. Many roads lead to the main road and we can discuss the fundamental principles they share. Why would God choose these vias? What are they? Where does human knowledge stand in the face of them? What about science?

Here it goes…🙂

Let’s suppose that God exists, how do you understand we can come to know Him?
Click to expand...
There was a guy called Saul who persecuted Christians. One day, on the way to Damascus he saw a bright light that made him fall from the horse and he went blind. And one voice told him: “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”.

And the rest of the story you know it.

When God appears you just fall from the horse and you do not needs proofs that He is God.
 
I think he was on a fish, because the scales fell from his eyes.😛

But Pfaffenhoffen is right. It’s hard to deny a personal epiphany.
 
Through all people around us and because Church is present, Priests guide us in our every day lives with God. When we are frightend or unsure of what we think God is through being misinformed and own thoughts etc then we can safely turn to a Priest and be reassured and set on the right path again.(one of the purposes of confession though I know you guys may well shout me down here but its about our relationship with God too) The right path is the one that we each individually and uniquely walk with God and priests are (also there) to help us walk along it. We each come to know God our own unique and personal way and God loves us all where ever we are on that journey with God.
 
Abba said:
… what is God saying in plain English regarding a way of finding Him. … I think it would be good to step aside from those approaches and present clearly what the Bible says and give people the opportunity to at least understand a different way of finding God and present this way clearly. …
Click to expand...
In plain English, He says to “seek” Him.

Jeremiah 29:13-14 “You will seek Me and find Me; when you seek Me with all your heart. ** I will be found by you…”**

1 Chron 28:9 …If you **seek Him, He will be found **by you.

Mt. 7:7 "Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
 
englishredrose said:
Through all people around us and because Church is present, Priests guide us in our every day lives with God. When we are frightend or unsure of what we think God is through being misinformed and own thoughts etc then we can safely turn to a Priest and be reassured and set on the right path again.(one of the purposes of confession though I know you guys may well shout me down here but its about our relationship with God too) The right path is the one that we each individually and uniquely walk with God and priests are (also there) to help us walk along it. We each come to know God our own unique and personal way and God loves us all where ever we are on that journey with God.
Click to expand...
Off topic, I know - but why English Red Rose when you live in Yorkshire?:confused:
 
I think we come to God though an interaction between grace and nature.

Natural human reason by itself can lead one to a certain knowledge of God’s existence as well as a great deal of other related truths, except that there is one complication: the value of human reason itself. Human reason cannot confirm its own value (just as the senses cannot confirm their own reliability) and this then casts doubt on all its other conclusions, however otherwise solid they may be. However, maintaining a completely agnostic position on the value of human reason is existentially impossible for us to do, at least for an extended period of time. We must therefore either fall into a self-contracting positive affirmation of skepticism, build our intellectual house on the dubious sand of the practical argument for presumption, or accept the grace of supernatural faith.
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
There was a guy called Saul who persecuted Christians. One day, on the way to Damascus he saw a bright light that made him fall from the horse and he went blind. And one voice told him: “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”.

And the rest of the story you know it.

When God appears you just fall from the horse and you do not needs proofs that He is God.
Click to expand...
So true.

A couple of years ago, I actually discussed the appearances of Our Lord to laity with the Monsignor I reference on the OP. I asked him what he makes of it. He told me that we do not know why Our Lord appears we just know that he does. I am tempted to think that just as there are distinct individuals he has appeared to there are reasons.

An epiphany is a gift from God, we do not earn it nor can we make it happen. It is an undeserved gift. It is not a reflection of someone’s holiness. In His Wisdom and Love, it pleases God to appear to certain individuals - that’s all we know. It could be for one reason at one time and for another on another occassion.

I agree, after an epiphany - who needs faith?!?

I say, let’s put this one aside for now as this will not help people since it is beyond their control and reach as it is God that for reasons unbeknown to us chooses to bless someone with His presence by appearing to them.

Of course, what you are saying it true.
 
Gorgias said:
“from a horse”? Are you sure? 😉
Click to expand...
Huh! I did not know there is a controversy with the Protestant church about this. I have to check out my Bibles and see and consider the translations. I always thought it was a horse.
 
Abba said:
I think it would be a useful task to present the Catholic understanding, what is God saying in plain English regarding a way of finding Him.
Click to expand...
Find Him through his Son **Jesus **who is ‘the Way’, the way to God
I wish to be presented here is people’s Catholic and biblical understand of a way to find God.
Click to expand...
Find Him through his Son **Jesus **who is ‘the Way’, the way to God
What is that way?
Click to expand...
his Son **Jesus **is ‘the Way’, the way to God
Let’s suppose that God exists, how do you understand we can come to know Him?
Click to expand...
Come to know Him through his Son **Jesus **who is ‘the Way’, the way to God

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (Joh 14:6 )
 
John7 said:
Find Him through his Son **Jesus **who is ‘the Way’, the way to God

Find Him through his Son **Jesus **who is ‘the Way’, the way to God

his Son **Jesus **is ‘the Way’, the way to God

Come to know Him through his Son **Jesus **who is ‘the Way’, the way to God

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (Joh 14:6 )
Click to expand...
Hear, hear!

This can sound almost poetical to someone who does not recognize Jesus and is not even sure there is a God. What is a person to do with this information? To some it will sound redundant and to others meaningless insofar as finding God because they do not understand. There are people for whom this would be too deep as they are not even sure there is a God to begin with never mind that He is a Triune God and that Jesus is the Son. These are the people we can reach out to where they are at.

Of course, you are correct, but do you see the predicament?
 
Hello Nita and thank for your participation on this thread. 🙂
Nita said:
In plain English, He says to “seek” Him.

Jeremiah 29:13-14 “You will seek Me and find Me; when you seek Me with all your heart. ** I will be found by you…”**

1 Chron 28:9 …If you **seek Him, He will be found **by you.

Mt. 7:7 "Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

God tells us in the Bible that we need to seek Him with our whole heart. This offers us a great clue in finding Him. There are other things in the Bible that shows us the way, another one that I was thinking about is humility. Let’s try to post some Bible quotes about humility.

One big question here is: why? Why would God find this way which we have so far noted includes humility and with our whole heart the best way to find Him?

What does it mean to seek God with our whole heart?

This is what I hope we can do in this thread; to present and extraction from the Bible and Catholic teachings on how to come to know God. From what we can call a preliminary stage with no assumption of any knowledge of God. I’m trying here, I hope this works.
 
Abba said:
So true.

A couple of years ago, I actually discussed the appearances of Our Lord to laity with the Monsignor I reference on the OP. I asked him what he makes of it. He told me that we do not know why Our Lord appears we just know that he does. I am tempted to think that just as there are distinct individuals he has appeared to there are reasons.

An epiphany is a gift from God, we do not earn it nor can we make it happen. It is an undeserved gift. It is not a reflection of someone’s holiness. In His Wisdom and Love, it pleases God to appear to certain individuals - that’s all we know. It could be for one reason at one time and for another on another occassion.

I agree, after an epiphany - who needs faith?!?

I say, let’s put this one aside for now as this will not help people since it is beyond their control and reach as it is God that for reasons unbeknown to us chooses to bless someone with His presence by appearing to them.

Of course, what you are saying it true.
Click to expand...
I am a person who does not believe in ghosts, demon possessions and so on. I am rather skeptic. But there are thing that amaze me.

It was in East Timor. We had to travel by “lorry” 8 hours. Another 8 hours by horse. It was in the end of the world. You had nothing there. I reached the house of a priest who was there for years. He was the most practical person of this world. He said mass like a bulldozer, no feelings at all.

At dinner, just passing through the conversation, we were telling stories when he said that he visited a hut in the top of the mountain. The man was dying. He gave him the Holy Communion and, all of a sudden, the hut was filled with light. He said that as he would be saying that in the previous day he drank 1 bear and it was nice. No emphasis, nothing. As natural as that.

The other was in Hong-Kong, where I was visiting friends. They were Catholics. And as we were talking, mother told us a story. She was a little girl who went to Macao fleeing from the Japanese Invasion of Hong-Kong. She was at the doorsteps of St. Augustin church taken the night air in a hot summer night. suddenly, she saw a staircase going into the sky and in the light of the stair, a little girl was going up. She recognized in her the friend who was in hospital and whose death she took notice the next day. I believed her. She was a little girl and she was not going to invent it. And again, like the priest in Timor, it was said like, yesterday we went for a trip to the countryside.
 
Abba said:
Let’s suppose that God exists, how do you understand we can come to know Him?
Click to expand...
Excellent and Incredibly exciting question, my friend! I deeply enjoy trying to understand and know God and the Fullness of Truth regarding His Church more every moment of my life, and I look forward to an exciting discussion with you!

My most beloved method of knowing God is through the analysis of what is required for every individual and relationship of a society to experience an unbreakable peace, limitless happiness, and unstoppable energy.
The early stages of analysis reveal that there must be perfect patience for peace, a combination of free-will and kindness for limitless happiness, and perfect motivation for energy.
Can you recognize how this early revelation validates the Holy Bible?

To know and understand God, I also enjoy learning the multitude of perspectives found in the Wisdom of the Word! Currently some of my favorite lines of Wisdom are:
  1. All verses which define and surround the Greatest Commandments.<-- This is Living!
  2. 1 Corinthians 13:4 and 13 ← The challenge of living.
  3. John 1:1-2 ← How anything comes into existence, including the first thing.
  4. The Beatitudes ← A natural sequence in becoming One with the Spirit of God and the Incredible depths of Forgiveness God has to offer.
  5. The Book of Revelations ← Things which happen when growing in oneness with the Spirit of God.
Another method was founded by James Victor entitled the 2/3 Rule. You can read more at www.gospelofcreation.com ← Very fascinating stuff!

Thank you very much my friend! You asking such a wonderful question has made my day much better! May the peace and happiness of living be with you every moment of the day!

Thoughts?
 
Hello jochoa,

Please do not promote that website on this thread nor any of the threads I start. If I start a thread to investigate or present an idea it will be presented just fine with the teachings of the Catholic Church. Similarly, if I start a thread in where I ask a question, I would be seeking the Catholic answer. The Catholic Church nourishes me abundantly and guides me and I do not need to look no further especially to questionable sources. The objective of this thread is to present a treatise of what the Bible and the Catholic Church teaches on the way to find God. That’s it and nothing else.

I actually considered noting on that old thread for the record that the when the thread was started the story stated that the author got the idea during a Marian retreat. However, a day or so after my last post the story was changed as it obviously contradicted the claim that the author was an adamant atheist and reverted because of the theory he presents in his book. It’s a nice sales pitch and so the story was changed on the website before I could ask after returning from my 40 days retreat. I wanted to ask: what was an adamant atheist doing at a Marian retreat? I noticed the website was sprinkled with the ‘Virgin Mary’ and ‘Rosary’ to give it a Catholic appeal and all the objections and criticisms were applied to sell the product. Let’s not go there, please.

Thank you for your consideration to this matter.

Peace,

Abba
 
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